Graham Stewart Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Final one of this batch. Signed on the back 'Your loving son, Jack. July 1916.' Interesting as i do not recognise anything on the pic, uniform, collar or cap insignia or the medals. City or County of London Church Lads Brigade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Unidentified, but splendid, C.S.M of 1/6th (City of London) Battalion (Rifles) The 'Cast-Iron Sixth' Note the unusual twisted lanyard, and the privately purchased chinstrap on his soft cap. He is wearing two ribbons, I think the left hand is the QSA, although as normal the colours are difficult to interpret in old photos and are lighter or darker depending on the photo plates used etc, but I cannot make out the right hand ribbon. Not a KSA I think, but it does have a lighter central stripe on the original print. I'm sure the white of a KSA would be obvious! Any suggestions? Tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Not Light Infantry, but clearly they liked fancy uniforms. The green has nothing to do with Light Infantry....just an Irish thing! Two bugles intertwined. He might have been a bugle major but unlikely as he describes himself as piper on the back of the postcard. Tocemma I think Grumpy is probably on the right track and he was probably previously a Bugle Major in the London Irish Rifles, hence the double 'Rifles' bugle above his large chevrons and I'm sure they had a bugle band before/or as well as a pipe band. He's also wearing his overseas chevrons over the top of his Bugle Majors chevrons and note the skirt of the tunic - it isn't the correct cut away pattern at all, but the tucked back skirt as often seen in Jock photo's where the cut away pattern SD jacket was unavailable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Unidentified, but splendid, C.S.M of 1/6th (City of London) Battalion (Rifles) The 'Cast-Iron Sixth' Note the unusual twisted lanyard, and the privately purchased chinstrap on his soft cap. He is wearing two ribbons, I think the left hand is the QSA, although as normal the colours are difficult to interpret in old photos and are lighter or darker depending on the photo plates used etc, but I cannot make out the right hand ribbon. Not a KSA I think, but it does have a lighter central stripe on the original print. I'm sure the white of a KSA would be obvious! Any suggestions? Tocemma Depending on when the photo was taken I think you'll find he's either a Colour Sergeant or a C.Q.M.S., which Grumpy will either confirm of deny. Post 1915 C.S.M. wore the large crown on the cuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Definitely 1916 or later he's wearing a soft SD cap. So you could be right Graham. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
john gregory Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Unidentified Private, 2/15th (County of London) Battalion (Prince of Wales's Own Civil Service Rifles) This photograph taken after the Battalion transferred to 90th Brigade in 30th Division on 2nd of July 1918. The full title in black on khaki is worn here, but the Battalion also wore C.S.R in block capitals, again in black on khaki. The 30th Div patch is worn below. Tocemma Exellent image Paul, was the 30 Div flash worn on both sleeves, notice his is worn the different way. Is this chap London Irish ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wainfleet Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Now the following two are a bit unresearched so far but you insignia and medal experts can have a bit of fun. First although he has signed the card not sure on him or the shoulder title. Bottom part looks like ASC for Army Service Corps but not sure s to bit above it where first letter looks like a V. Chris I believe that is an "MT" (= Motor Transport) above the ASC title. Regards, W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Hi John, Not London Irish, they wore a blackened cap badge. 30th Div was worn on both sleeves, also a sytem of patches below the collar at the back of the tunic. Grovetown has a QWR Sgt's jacket I used to own. It has the 30th flashes, QWR titles and a red circle with a quarter (9-12 o'clock) missing at the back if I remember correctly. I have some photos of this tunic somewhere. Apologies in advance if my memory is playing tricks with me but I think that's right. I'm sure there'll be a Grovetown along shortly. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muerrisch Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Depending on when the photo was taken I think you'll find he's either a Colour Sergeant or a C.Q.M.S., which Grumpy will either confirm of deny. Post 1915 C.S.M. wore the large crown on the cuff. yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Thank you. I got the hat right though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max7474 Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Hi John, Not London Irish, they wore a blackened cap badge. 30th Div was worn on both sleeves, also a sytem of patches below the collar at the back of the tunic. Grovetown has a QWR Sgt's jacket I used to own. It has the 30th flashes, QWR titles and a red circle with a quarter (9-12 o'clock) missing at the back if I remember correctly. I have some photos of this tunic somewhere. Apologies in advance if my memory is playing tricks with me but I think that's right. I'm sure there'll be a Grovetown along shortly. Paul Paul, They also seem to have worn w/m ones as well. I have some photos of the w/m one in WW1 somewhere. If he is not Lodon irish then he would be Royal Irish Rifles but I cannot see the scroll so London irish seems a better fir. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Hi Max, It crossed my mind that the photo might not actually be of Great War vintage. It has a sort of school OTC look to it. I could be totally wrong but I think early 1920s? Did any OTCs wear an Irish harp cap badge? Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Post 1235: The London Irish Rifles wore a white metal badge for "walking out" and blackened badge otherwise. During the war a gilding metal badge was issued but an original of this type is a rare find indeed. As is not unusual with the British Army, what was supposed to have been worn and what was actually worn, depending of course on what was available, are not always the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Upton Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 The Vickers guns are of a commercial type, possibly purchased by the unit, but I am unsure as to which exact model. They have the rear sight mounted on the feed block cover unlike the issue types which had a sight mounted on the receiver cover. Most likely they are, as you said, commercially purchased 1908 "Light Pattern" Vickers guns with their distinctive "Peddie-Colochiopulo" rear sight in the roller-coaster style (this is the type which with the various WD modifications was adopted as the MkI Vickers in 1912). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Exellent image Paul, was the 30 Div flash worn on both sleeves, notice his is worn the different way. Is this chap London Irish ? Yes, Harp of Erin and black buttons = London Irish Rifles, albeit that he should be wearing a blackened cap badge, which was not always followed. An Angel Harp and black buttons would have indicated Royal Irish Rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Unidentified Private, London Irish, 18th London Regiment. Showing London Irish buttons, blackened T 18 London titles and, in addition, green on khaki shoulder titles worn at the top of the sleeve. The titles are shown in close up below. Frogsmile, Re my previous posting on the London Irish, yes I am aware of its lineage and rifle traditions. You'll have to excuse me I was being a bit more sarcastic and flippant than usual, and indulging in a bit of Grumpy baiting after his forensic analysis of the piper. Sadly this time the dragon did not bite. I really do think he is mellowing.... Up until a few years ago, when I got into WW2 vehicles and downsized my collection, I owned several trunks containing uniforms and paperwork to Major (later Lt. Colonel) W. W. Hughes DSO, MC, long time 2 I/C of 1/18th Londons, and also briefly in command of the 1/18th Battalion at various periods. He was also in command of the 17th Londons for a period in 1917. Included in the trunks were his pre-war full dress uniforms, he was originally 6th City of London Rifles too. The whole lot was plastered in Rifles insignia. Major Hughes is also shown below. The tunic, breeches and Sam Browne shown in the photo were amongst his effects. Also included was a vast selection of trench maps and carefully hand noted manuals and orders. He was clearly a meticulous and diligent Officer. Regards Tocemma More cracking photos tocemma, I have never seen both cloth and metal titles worn together before. Thanks for such an interesting post and explanation of Lt Col Hughes background - very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldstreampaul Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 Unidentified K.O.Y.L.I. wearing a "Minden Rose" on left breast side. Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tocemma Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 (edited) Tocemma Edited 10 January by tocemma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 This is one of my favourite images. Men of A Coy., 1st Batt. Kings Royal Rifle Corps, at Aldershot in August 1914. There are some real characters in this image. A few timeless faces that you could find in the Army today, a fair crop of late Victorian bruisers and by the looks of it, one or two out and out bad hats! A great image of the old Army. Tocemma Yes, I agree it is wholly evocative of the BEF and a great example of a military meal in the field, complete with old sweat (literally!) regimental cooks, dixies and pot mugs. The KRR were a strong corps and like the Rifle Brigade and Royal Fusiliers had 4 regular battalions, as opposed to the more usual 2 (less Camerons with just 1). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robins2 Posted 12 January , 2011 Share Posted 12 January , 2011 City or County of London Church Lads Brigade. medals are pinned on right side of uniform??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Stewart Posted 13 January , 2011 Share Posted 13 January , 2011 medals are pinned on right side of uniform??? Which I believe is correct for none military cadet units. You still see these medals for sale often with date bars on them. I'm still trying to think what the correct title of the unit was, as it was a bit posher than C.L.B., it was something like "City of London Diocesian Cadets", although my spelling may be a bit out. Off the top of my head I think the cap badge was the Arms of the City of London in a wreath, topped with a Bishops Mitre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Barton Posted 13 January , 2011 Share Posted 13 January , 2011 This is one of my favourite images. Men of A Coy., 1st Batt. Kings Royal Rifle Corps, at Aldershot in August 1914. There are some real characters in this image. A few timeless faces that you could find in the Army today, a fair crop of late Victorian bruisers and by the looks of it, one or two out and out bad hats! A great image of the old Army. Tocemma Tocemma , It is a great pic. One puzzle : if moustaches were Regulation for Regulars in 1914 , and these men are 1st Battalion Regulars, where have all the moustaches gone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
squirrel Posted 13 January , 2011 Share Posted 13 January , 2011 Tocemma - thanks for posting the LIR cards. Very interesting and much appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted 13 January , 2011 Share Posted 13 January , 2011 Glad you found the cards of interest and thanks for filling in the gaps in my knowledge. I doubt i would ever worked out 'City of London Diocesian Cadets' as the unit identity. Will post some more soon. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted 13 January , 2011 Share Posted 13 January , 2011 Another for you. Quick quiz which sure someone will get the answer to very quickly. What is unique about this soldier? Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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