SRD Jars - Who made them?

[Plugstreet 14-18]

I can't decipher the manufacturer, does anyone know?

thank you

[Gunner Bailey]

Looks like Tennent but a clearer photo would help. Scottish brewers, but I've not seen that mark before.

[Plugstreet 14-18]

Here the 1 gallon SRD jar with, I hope I hope for a better picture ( ?TENNENT 3 LIMITED)

[Plugstreet 14-18]

Just found a second 1/2 Gallon jar (right) made by LOVATT Ltd but this one dated 1915

[Gunner Bailey]

Tennent makes more sense and the Lovatt logo is different.

[Plugstreet 14-18]

my last intervention with photos are two different things, one shows a better photo and the other is my latest find,
Tennent and Lovatt have nothing to do with each other of course

[Plugstreet 14-18]

1 Gallon Jars WWI and WWII??
both made by Bourne Denby, the one on the left two markings, one in ink (WWII??) and one stamped in the jar.                                                                                                                      On the left with the handle, a single marking

[Gunner Bailey]

I'd say both WW1. Most WW2 jars seem to to be dated. Other makers used ink stamps as well.

[Plugstreet 14-18]

Already heard that the jars that have the underside varnished as in the 2nd and 3rd photo are more WWII???
Strange...it's the same manufacturer but two totally different Jars!!! hence my question

[Ironblood]

Dating collectables in general is a double-sided coin - Tt is intriguing, interesting & fun but can prove difficult & conversely tedious, especially when a dead end is met.
My only advice would be to always look at the bigger picture and view whatever collectable in a wider context than just by itself.

The most reliable dating method for such Jars, and indeed most other commodities made for the services is, perhaps obviously, the nomenclature itself.
After the firm is identified and following some research, one can usually establish basics such as when respective makers were in operation. Dating is easy in cases of short-lived firms. With some luck, it is also possible to come across documentation revealing details about brands commissioned by the military, such as the period contracted, quantities ordered, etc. shedding more light.
However, if the latter is lacking and firms have a long-standing history spanning over several decades or beyond, dating can become far more challenging.   

There seems to be no consensus based on whether the base is varnished or not, and even though references to regulations have been made earlier in this thread, one always encounters exceptions or cases where either firms or purchaser do not always follow specifications entirely, resulting in the many small differences notable in all sorts of military wares made to the same specs. yet differing from one maker to another.
For this reason and variations resulting from different batches made by the same firm in the same period makes dating by shape, specific dimensions, glaze hues, and such other external factors, difficult and inconclusive.

Coming hence to the bigger picture, dating of an artefact may be more reliable through the consideration of other clues such as the graphic design & lettering employed by firms over time.  The most obvious, is the style of numbers and letters used in markings found on just about anything. It's no hard and fast rule, but a visible transition occurred during the interwar years whereby the age-old elaborate "Times New Roman" gave way to simpler "Arial" style letters & nos.   

Another element worthy of note is the graphical portrayal of logos or text. Brands often imitated others following trends and vogues of the day. Access to trade-mark registers and documentation is particularly useful since it was not uncommon for such marks to be officialised in this way. Period government gazettes and newspapers are rife with such information, but not always easy to access or come across, even when digitised. 

Other more basic clues pertain to the presence of the word or abbreviation "Ltd" or "Made in England". Both these were introduced in / or became regulated at a certain period. The latter was introduced in around 1908 if I recall correctly. Hence, bar any potential exceptions, items including a Made in (country) are normally post 1908. As for the Ltd., I believe the added nomenclature came about in the 1880s or so. Something similar applies to patent nos. and their introduction / usage in markings.

The bane remains when it comes to jars that have no markings at all. The only indication to their original use is verified provenance, say a trench or undisturbed long-term storage in a particular setting. While this would help establish time-frames, and military or civilian employment, it would not confirm whether the jar was actually made for the services or civilian equivalent adopted by them in the course of events.

This is all compounded by the large quantities made by a large number of firms over a very long span of time.
The only possible way of determining the origin of wholly unmarked jars would be through scientific analysis of the differences in raw materials and production techniques associated with each maker. 

Not sure if any of this helps, and always ready to stand corrected. 

Here's 4 from my collection. Three are devoid of all markings, while the SRD Jar is the common Pearsons & Co. variety with inked details to its base. There's a smudge below the script but does not look like a date or number hence so should be from WW1 / pre-WW2.

Ironblood, Malta
 

[chamster]

On 16/02/2023 at 10:30, Plugstreet 14-18 said:

Here the 1 gallon SRD jar with, I hope I hope for a better picture ( ?TENNENT 3 LIMITED)

HELLO PLUGSTREET,

I AM VERY CERTAIN THAT THIS POTTERY MARK RELATES TO ...........J & R TENNENT LIMITED..........A GLASGOW BREWERY COMPANY 

THAT IN 1919 LEASED THE POSSIL POTTERY BEFORE EVENTUALY BUYING OUTRIGHT. MORE INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND BY

SEARCHING............RECORDS OF GLASGOW TRADING & TRANSPORT LTD. ANOTHER NEW FOUND MARK FOR THE EVER GROWING LIST.

 

 

[Gunner Bailey]

The 'bible' for pottery marks is - The Encyclopedia of British Pottery and Porcelain Marks by Geoffrey A Godden FRSA. I also find Yorkshire Pots & Potteries by Heather Lawrence useful for some of the rarer marks. 

[trajan]

On 23/02/2023 at 18:12, Ironblood said:

Dating collectables in general is a double-sided coin - 
 

Well said, Ironblood! As an archaeologist I am used to seriation dating techniques in analysing pottery but without dated examples there is not much we can do wth these jars. As you say, itis sometimes possible to give a date range for a maker, etc., but even so, there is nothing intrinsic to these things that would allow their period of actual use to be dated. We are all, I susect, familar with how ever so often the army finds stocks of unused 'surplus' material and then dumps in on the market...

Trajan  

[chamster]

On 13/04/2023 at 15:23, Gunner Bailey said:

The 'bible' for pottery marks is - The Encyclopedia of British Pottery and Porcelain Marks by Geoffrey A Godden FRSA. I also find Yorkshire Pots & Potteries by Heather Lawrence useful for some of the rarer marks. 

Hi Gunner,

Can you quote or supply photos from your 2 Bibles , this would indeed be very useful to SRD collectors.

[Gunner Bailey]

4 hours ago, chamster said:

Hi Gunner,

Can you quote or supply photos from your 2 Bibles , this would indeed be very useful to SRD collectors.

Happy to if it does not breach copyright. But I would recommend any serious SRD / pot / jar collector to get a copy of Goddens.

[Plugstreet 14-18]

Hi,

Find this one and made by the very well known Pearson and Co. Chesterfield but no brown color and varnish, well examined from all angles it looks like it's original, can someone confirm? Thanks

[Gunner Bailey]

Possibly a reject that 'escaped' from the factory?

[Plugstreet 14-18]

Hi, 

Find this one and made by the very well known Pearson and Co. Chesterfield but no brown color and varnish, well examined from all angles it looks like it's original, can someone confirm? Thanks

But well arrived on the western front!!!

[Gunner Bailey]

Maybe quality control was on holiday that day?

[Pfrker Jr]

1. Приветствую!!! Вот и моя не большая коллекция SRD -(Greetings!!! So my small SRD collection is.)

[chamster]

On 22/06/2023 at 13:58, Pfrker Jr said:

1. Приветствую!!! Вот и моя не большая коллекция SRD -(Greetings!!! So my small SRD collection is.)

Hi,

Is there any chance you could list the makers of your collection.

Many thanks.

[Pfrker Jr]

1 hour ago, chamster said:

Привет,

Есть ли шанс, что вы могли бы перечислить производителей вашей коллекции.

Большое спасибо.

Да конечно!)

 

[Pfrker Jr]

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[Pfrker Jr]

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[Pfrker Jr]

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