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ronmarsden

Black Watch Battalion?

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ronmarsden

At least this one has the Battalion number.

Ron.

post-12169-1210884902.jpg

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truthergw

A hackle is a feather plume. Normally worn by the BW after a certain date instead of a cap badge, which is why it is unusual to see it worn with the badge.

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Black Watch

The 3 huns. Could be referring to 3 captured horses? I seem to remember a couple of German horses, mentioned in Wauchope, that were acquired by one of the Black Watch regiments early in the war. Happily they made it through and travelled back to Scotland with the Cadre.

Neil

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ronmarsden

A rare photo of the 10th Battalion taken at Salonica. Can anyone make out the name ? The original postcard is blurry

so apologies for the quality.

Ron.

post-12169-1211013442.jpg

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Rockford

Hi Ron,

My first thoughts are it looks like it's "Pte. Frank Anderson"

Best wishes

Brian

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1st east yorks

Tom,

Thanks for your reply on the Hackle.

Anthony.

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Black Jock
At least this one has the Battalion number.

Ron.

Ron,

The man in the centre of the photo could be Seargeant Major Parker, in 1919 he was the Battalion Tug-o-War coach.

Tom

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Black Watch
Ron,

The man in the centre of the photo could be Seargeant Major Parker, in 1919 he was the Battalion Tug-o-War coach.

Tom

I think this man appears in the earlier 1917 2nd Btn Picture. 2nd bottom row, wearing the cross belts (i know thats not what they are called :))

Neil

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ronmarsden

This one has W Thorn BCoy hut 11 North Camp Ripon written on the reverse,no date.

Ron.

post-12169-1211909192.jpg

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fifer
Ron

Looking for small clues ! The soldier on the far right of the second row from the back,is that 3 stripes on his sleeve or a flaw in the picture ? They might mean the passage of time ion some way,which might discount 2 or 3 years of the War and make the pic 1916-17 or so.

Sotonmate

I'm sort of surprised the stripes on the lower sleeve are a mystery here. The stripes are "GC" awards (Good Conduct). They are awarded one at a time, hope this helps.

Regards, Alistair

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Lachlan07

Quite a collection of uniform styles !

It has usually been assumed that plain pocketed standard-skirted tunics were issued in 1915 to replace the kilted version with pleated pockets, but at least one chap here (the L/Cpl) appears to be wearing the pleated pocket version of the standard (not kilted) tunic.

I wonder why some of the chaps are wearing their steel helmets ?

There seems an even preference between collars with hooks and eyes employed and those left undone.

The TOS wearers seem to all have badge and hackle. One chap is wearing the glengarry. Quite a varied collection !

That has to be one of the neatest photos of a pristine kilt apron I have seen ! I bet the one he wore in the front line (he has a wound badge) never looked half so presentable !

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Lachlan07

I have wondered about my Great Uncle Dave's hackle. Still in my parents' house, it's not the grand version used by the Watch in recent times (which looks like a puffy feather duster), rather it's blood red rather than bright scarlet, has only a relatively modest number of cut feathers in a short hackle, is wrapped around in black tape (looks like fabricised isolating tape) and has a short wire loop projecting out the base. It was sent back by the army as part of his few remaining possessions after his death in May 1917. There was no badge sent with it, so I presume the 8th Black Watch wore the hackle only. A 1915 photo of him at Borden Camp did show he had a glengarry and badge, at least at that time.

I always wondered if it was his actual hackle which would have been in his pack on 3rd May 1917 when he died, or if his battalion sent his family a new one.

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Black Jock

quote name='Lachlan07' date='Jun 1 2008, 09:13 AM' post='931099']

I have wondered about my Great Uncle Dave's hackle. Still in my parents' house, it's not the grand version used by the Watch in recent times (which looks like a puffy feather duster), rather it's blood red rather than bright scarlet, has only a relatively modest number of cut feathers in a short hackle, is wrapped around in black tape (looks like fabricised isolating tape) and has a short wire loop projecting out the base. It was sent back by the army as part of his few remaining possessions after his death in May 1917. There was no badge sent with it, so I presume the 8th Black Watch wore the hackle only. A 1915 photo of him at Borden Camp did show he had a glengarry and badge, at least at that time.

I always wondered if it was his actual hackle which would have been in his pack on 3rd May 1917 when he died, or if his battalion sent his family a new one.

Lachlan,

The Hackle was the most tangible reminder of the regiment he was part of. Whether it was new or not we may not know. Often it would accompany his bible. The new Hackles are a bit more "gallus" than when I served. It is still a poke in the eye to those who would get rid of it.

Tom

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truthergw

The issue hackle was a puir wee peely wally thing. The trick was to have a pal in the pipes and drums. The TOSs look very new.

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Black Watch
I'm sort of surprised the stripes on the lower sleeve are a mystery here. The stripes are "GC" awards (Good Conduct). They are awarded one at a time, hope this helps.

Regards, Alistair

I think Sotonmate was referring to 3 stripes on the upper arm. (which IMO are just folds or marks on the picture)

Neil

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Tom A McCluskey

Ron,

After a lengthy sojourn from the forum, I'm glad to say I'm back!

Anyway, with reference to “The Three Huns” this might be chargers captured from the Uhlans that ran into a piquet of A Company, 1st Battalion The Black Watch, on the 4/5th September 1914, near the Marne.

From Wauchope, Vol I, page 8:

During the night of the 4th/5th a party of the enemy approached B company, to which were attached the machine guns of the Scots Guards, but were driven off. A patrol of six Uhlans galloped into a picquet [sic] of A company; one was killed and the remainder, including an officer, were captured. One of the captured horses served with the Battalion transport for the rest of the war, and answered to the name of “German Jimmy”; at the time of writing he is still interned, and leads a comfortable life somewhere in Scotland.

Hope this is of use

Aye

Tom McC

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ronmarsden
Ron,

After a lengthy sojourn from the forum, I'm glad to say I'm back!

Anyway, with reference to “The Three Huns” this might be chargers captured from the Uhlans that ran into a piquet of A Company, 1st Battalion The Black Watch, on the 4/5th September 1914, near the Marne.

From Wauchope, Vol I, page 8:

During the night of the 4th/5th a party of the enemy approached B company, to which were attached the machine guns of the Scots Guards, but were driven off. A patrol of six Uhlans galloped into a picquet [sic] of A company; one was killed and the remainder, including an officer, were captured. One of the captured horses served with the Battalion transport for the rest of the war, and answered to the name of “German Jimmy”; at the time of writing he is still interned, and leads a comfortable life somewhere in Scotland.

Hope this is of use

Aye

Tom McC

Tom,

Thanks for that info I have Wauchopes history but had fogotten that episode.

Also thanks for everyones comments, have a few more pics to post, here is a nice group of officers.

post-12169-1212837009.jpg

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Tom A McCluskey

Ron,

The photo at Ripon has been taken at the Depot for the Territorial 3rd Line Battalions. The 3rd Line of the 4th, 5th, 6th & 7th Battalions were formed into the 4th Reserve Battalion, The Black Watch. This depot would facilitate the training of Territorial recruits for the 1st Line battalions of the Regiment: 4/5th Black Watch (39 Div); the 6th Black Watch (HD); and the 7th Black Watch (HD). It would also serve as the re-training facility for wounded Black Watch T.F. men that would be forwarded to the 39 Div and 51 Div Reinforcements in France.

The Sergeant in the TOS and the soldier in the TOS in front of him, look like they have hackles from the Foreign Service helmet (purely speculative, but possibly obtained whilst in the Bareilly Brigade).

Aye

Tom McC

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ronmarsden

On the back of this postcard is written Dcoy Hut 33 10th OCB Gailes Ayrshire.

It is signed W M Clark. There is a 2/Lieut WM Clark 7th Fife Bn joined 10 10 17 -- KIA 20 11 17.

Ron.

post-12169-1213445289.jpg

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Tom A McCluskey

Ron,

Again a good photo. William Muir Clark was killed in action on the afternoon during the Highland Division's attack on Flesquieres Ridge. At the time he was with C Coy. 2/Lieut Clark's platoon was at the Flesquieres Trench when he was killed. I do not have my copy of Wauchope here, but I am sure his Lewis Gun Section were all casualties and he manned the gun forcing the Germans to retire, but was killed shortly afterwards.

Reference the 2nd Lieutenants at Richmond (a few phots ago), I think there is a good chance that these are also from Ripon.

Aye

Tom McC

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Tom A McCluskey

Ron,

Here is William Muir Clark's Medal Index Card

Aye

Tom McC

post-10175-1213450734.jpg

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Tom A McCluskey

And the reverse, with his father's details in Clifton, Arizona, USA.

Aye

Tom McC

post-10175-1213450856.jpg

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ronmarsden

Thanks for that information Tom.

Here is a nice photo of a piper you can cleary see the Royal Stuart kilt.

This is dated on the reverse 15-1-1919 Sloingen Germany.

Ron.

post-12169-1213471688.jpg

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Tom A McCluskey

Ron,

Great picture. Obviously a 1st Bn man. Along with the kilt, you can see that he is a piper because of the 'tool of the trade', and the Sergeants' sporran.

Again, thanks for sharing it.

Aye

Tom McC

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