Havrincourt Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Fritz It is a pleasure, I do enjoy looking at these views. So glad too that we can see your GF's post Andy H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Fritz, I have the orders for the 56th Division, will have a look through, but the area Andy has marked out certainly looks like the 43rd Brigade area. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Fritz The only way I can see your grandfather meeting men in kilts is from the 1st/14th London Regiment (London Scottish). They were to follow through the first regiments to take the Cojeul Switch line. They could have been 'mopping up' as they went through thus dealing with prisoners. Brilliant to see the aerial photos of the area I have walked so much. Even more for me to pour over at the weekend. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Hi Jim, That would explain it, dont have the 1/14th History but the area definetely seems to be the 43rd Brigade area. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 18 April , 2008 Share Posted 18 April , 2008 Hello Andies, Jim, a great accomplishment to identify this fantastic aerial pics so quickly. There are still posts 13, 14 (Cojeul Switch ?), 19 and 21 to explain. Any idea? Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 19 April , 2008 Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Hello Fritz , Andy , Jim Here is post 14...........It shows The Harp defence area, I will keep looking for the others - 2 are quite dense areas , maybe a train Station in one view on 51b G28? The 4 photographs taken of the Preussen Weg area I think are taken from an observation balloon position just behind the British lines Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 19 April , 2008 Share Posted 19 April , 2008 ....And Jims view of the Windmill at Neuville Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 19 April , 2008 Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Perfect Andy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 19 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 19 April , 2008 Good stuff Andy. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Thank you Andy, Fritz Here is one of the views from the British Observation balloon looking across toward the Brick Works. Upside down, but the right way up Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 20 April , 2008 Share Posted 20 April , 2008 Hello Andy S. I believe now a have understand all what was written in the report of 43rd Brigade. There are some passages which are usefull. So it was mentioned that this Brigade specially was faced with I.R. 162, the sister Regiment of my grandfather`s. One of the Hanseatic Regiments, this was called "Lübeck" and was from there. It was reported that they did not use their artillery. Yes of course because the artillery was nearly completely destroyed by the British. "Enemy chiefley in his dugouts ready to surrender" that means drum fire fore days not only killed their lives but also weared down their minds. Telegraph Hill Trench and Mule Lane are mentioned. Because the Rangers had some trouble with the wire southern of Mule Lane the Telegraph Hill Trench was not assaulted. Because I.R. 162 went back, the right wing of I.R.163 was in the air. The 2nd company of my grandfather was on the far right. So they had to withdraw their right wing into Mule Lane and shot K.O.Y.L.I. into their right flank. Also London Scottish is mentioned. They mopped up the trenches. So my GF must captured by them. The sites of fighting are sometimes called by a code of area positions. For example when the Britih were shot by machine gun from the south, could be from Bayernweg (Trump Lane). But this is not sure. The 10th and 11th april are mentioned. It may be that there was more touches with I.R. 163 because my regiment was there till 11th in order to defeat Monchy-le-Preux. But therefore had to made a very exact analyse later. What`s up with informations about the war diary of 56th Division? Any results? Great stuff Andy. Thank you that you mailed it to me. Hello Andy H very nice how you manage your computer. Wished could be able to do it like you. Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Hi all Time was not a friend over the weekend so I've not been able to look at all this as much as I wanted. For you Fritz at the moment I have the April diaries for: 1/7th Middlesex, 1/13th London (Kensingtons), 1/2nd London (Royal Fusiliers), 1/9th London (Q.V.R.) & 1/16th London (Q.W.R.). Hoping to get hold of more soon. If you want me to email them to you that's no problem. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Hello Jim, I would like it to get this war diaries. Hope this will help to make this day more and more transparent. Looking back at the beginning of Neuville recheche I must say we have brought out a very good deal. Kind regards Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Hi again Thought I would try and make some effort to contribute. This is my attempt at post 19 - not as accomplished as the Andys but it should show you where it is. Now to go away and work out how to not have white lettering on a snow covered picture!! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Fritz Diaries will be on their way to you soon. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 21 April , 2008 Share Posted 21 April , 2008 Hello Jim, I`m looking forward to your dispatch (is this word right?-my dictionary is a little bit too old; but sometimes an advantage because those military words which were used in WW1 will not to be find in modern dictionaries). Congratultions for the discovery of the content of post 19. Now we only have to pics to name. Sorry that I could not help but had no inspiration at all. Tomorrow my pupils will start with their Abitur examinations so time will be rare for me. I spite of this I hope for succesful activities in this thread. Regards Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 23 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 23 April , 2008 Fritz, I will send the 56th Divisions orders and reports that I have for your perusal. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 24 April , 2008 Share Posted 24 April , 2008 Hello Andy, now I have identified your post 13. The same site as pic 14 that what Andy had worked on post 83. Sorry to say I can`t use computer tools with inscriptions like Andy and Jim but would like to explain the pic. I recognized it by the two trenches ahead which look like a fork. The aerial pic ist made at the Harp just at the northern part of Telegraph Hill. The road ist the Beaurains-Tilloy-road seen from the south. Right above are the remains of Tilloy. The crossing with the big crater there stars the way in south-east direction into the near of Neuville. Very good to see the German first line (K 1) with a mighty wire in front of it and before the second line too. Behind the second line you can see the street from Tilloy to Neuville. I am looking forward to your informations about 56th Division. Kind regards Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 25 April , 2008 Share Posted 25 April , 2008 Well spotted Fritz Here is the trench map section to go with it Jim thanks for the i.d of post 19, very nice Cheers Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 26 April , 2008 Share Posted 26 April , 2008 Arras Train Station Don't think there would have been many trains running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 26 April , 2008 Share Posted 26 April , 2008 Here is one from the Observation balloon I have turned the map upside down to get a better view Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 26 April , 2008 Share Posted 26 April , 2008 Hello Andy, Andy, Jim, had just looked to all the pages of this thread and must say to be glad to find so much busy members with high productive results. This pic is a little difficult to identify. I admit to have no idea at all. But it shows a main road and must be just in this area. Also the Beaurains-Tilloy-road? Homework for the weekend. Wish you a nice sunday. Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 27 April , 2008 Share Posted 27 April , 2008 This is hard Fritz! The map reference of 51b P19c does not look like this at all, P19 has no road in it. Even if the P is a D (at least nearer the front area) D19 is all wrong for this photo. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 8 May , 2008 Author Share Posted 8 May , 2008 Fritz, Ali Hollington from the forum has popped up with something that might explain the presence of the 1/14th London Scottish in the 14th Division area and who captured your relative, as, where you realtive was captured was most definetely in the 14th Division's area of attack. From the Official History, 1917, Volume 1, Page 209 'The attack of the 56th Division' "The 1/London cleared Neuville Vitasse trench, but suffered heavily in doing so. The 7/Middlesex, moving up for its advance to the Wancourt - Fuechy Line, found the Londoners held up in front of the Hindenburg Line and went to their aid. The First Hindenburg Trench was carried, but the troops 'bunched' and were not in touch with the 14/London on their left. The right and centre companies of the latter battalion were likewise delayed in the first trench; the left lost direction and bore away into the area of the 14th Division, swept straight through all three lines of trenches without a pause, capturing about 150 prisoners in the process, and went on nearly another 600 yards in the open. After this feat, perhaps bewildered by its own success, it fell back to the front trench of the Hindenburg Line. The 14/London was then ordered to clear the remainder of these trenches, which were still occupied by a few machine guns, with the bomb." The 14th Londons were on the very left of the 56th Divisions attack connecting to the right of the 14th Division. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 8 May , 2008 Share Posted 8 May , 2008 Hello Andy, thank you for your research which give me more transparence about the circumstances of my grandfathers capture. Any idea about his further way until he was shipped to England? In October 1917 he sent a letter home with the sender: No. 271 Pte. Alb. Krentel No. 55 Prisoners of War Compagny in France c/o G.P.O. London The letter is written with a pencil. Very indistinct. No chance to scan it. I believe he told he had to work in the harbour of Rouen. By the way. Your aerial pics together with the comments of Andy H. and Jim gave me the chance of a big progress in my investigations. Thank you for that! Kind regards Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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