stiletto_33853 Posted 15 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2008 Hi Andy, I have cropped the barrage map as you requested, managed to recover it Fritz from my e-mails sent, this is the 56th Divs area. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 15 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 15 April , 2008 Andy, The top half for you, (14th Divisions) Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 15 April , 2008 Share Posted 15 April , 2008 Crocker,was killed in an attack on Neuville Mill with the 1st bn. London Regiment on 7th(sic) April 1917.trying to find exact location. thanks again,Andy. Hello Andy (streathhamandy), look here and then read post 7. Regards Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2008 Fritz, This might be of interest to you??? once agin from the 14th Divisions war diary for April 1917, the location of prisoners cages. I will send you the full size page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 16 April , 2008 Share Posted 16 April , 2008 Hello Andy, is it possible that the prisoners cages are in the citadelle of Arras? Your map was very useful. Now I can recognize the subjects in some of the pictures. For example your posts 5, 6, 11, 12. They are made from Northwest to Southeast over the British lines in direction to the German lines. Some inscribtions are corresponding. Important for orientation the road from Tilloy (left) to Beaurains (right). Interesting that the Brits used German names for some sites: Preussenweg, Löwenschanze, Fuchsbay (Fuchsbau?) and others more. In one case is marked "to Neuville", "Telegraph Hill" and makes orientation easily. The landscape on this four pics is looking very ghoastly. Like on the moon. Thanks for your assistence. Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 16 April , 2008 Share Posted 16 April , 2008 Hello Andy , Jim, Fritz and Andy Phew! lots of Andy's Here is a second effort with the view of the Telegraph work in the snow Are the labelled bits OK? Andy thanks for the enlarged map views Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2008 Fritz, That was my first thought looking at the layout of the POW cages, certainly look like the Citadelle and a classic Vauban design. Glad that the pictures e-mailed to you so far have been helpful. The 14th Divisions War Diary is a good one and has helped me tremendously. Andy, Great stuff. Another Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 16 April , 2008 Share Posted 16 April , 2008 The 14th Divisions War Diary is a good one and has helped me tremendously. Hello Andy Stiletto, her 43rd Brigade must have faced I.R. 163. Is there anything mentioned in the War Diary? Hello Andy Havrincourt, well done. Have you an idea about the black points near the Harp and Telegraph Redoubt? Regards Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 16 April , 2008 Share Posted 16 April , 2008 Here is a closer view of Telegraph Hill, just look at that barded wire! Thanks Fritz, gun/mortar pits maybe. Hope you like Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 16 April , 2008 Share Posted 16 April , 2008 Hi Wow. Fantastic to see such activity on this 'front', thanks to you Andy (33853)! I will need the weekend to work through all of this. Wish I wasn't at work at the moment - A level coursework will just have to wait! Andy (one of you) This is a photo of Neuville Vitasse mill from the Mercatel road with the village behind. The attack on the mill came from the left as you look at the photo. It is waste ground now, a bit of a dump and hard to distinguish old rubble from new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2008 There's some good stuff here people, I will check the 43rd Brigade reports for you and see if I have the individual unit war diaries. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimSmithson Posted 16 April , 2008 Share Posted 16 April , 2008 Fritz Against your I.R. 163 you need 6th Kings Own Yorkshire Light Inf (KOYLI) plus 6th Somerset Light Inf who followed through to the Artillerie Stellung and then perhaps the 10th Durham Light Inf (DLI) to their left. The others of 43 Brigade were attacking more I.R. 162 than 163. If Andy has the war diaries I will help you with the transcribing and translation if you want and he is happy to give them to you. When I have time I can do the same for some of 56th Division diaries that I have. many of them are hand written which can make it hard, even for us. I can sympathise having had to read hand written German! Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 16 April , 2008 Share Posted 16 April , 2008 Hello Jim, you mean hand written in Sütterlin! My grandparents used this and when I had to read their letters I sometimes thought to be an illiterate. Thank you for your information, Annete had mentioned it earlier but now it is an hot information. Would like to translate it together. Good night Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2008 43rd Infantry Brigade Report of operations on 9th, 10th and 11th April 1917. April 9th Assembly, 12.25 a.m. The Brigade was in its assembly areas by 12.25 a.m. 6th KOYLI on the right and the 10th Durham L.I. on the left in Front Line. 6th Somerset L.I. in Support and 6th DCLI in Reserve. Wire Report, 4.45. a.m. 6th KOYLI reported the wire well cut by hand on their front up to the Red Line. 10th Durham L.I. reported that wire was uncut at two points along their front along Nice Trench. This was communicated to the R.A. Liaison Officers at about 4.45 a.m. Two 6" Howitzers cut lanes at these points before the advance at 7.34 a.m. Assault, 7.34 a.m. The leading battalions left their assembly trenches and attacked the Red Line Tanks. Some tanks crossed the front of the right battalion near the southern end of Nice Trench. Red Line Carried, 7.50 to 7.55 a.m. The Red Line was carried with slight losses, the troops being well up to the barrage. The enemy put up no Artillery barrage on our front line or in No Man's Land except on Telegraph Hill. Prisoners, 7.57 a.m. By 7.57 a.m. a number of prisoners of 162nd Infantry Regiment were coming in. There was some loss from machine-gun and rifle fire in the left battalion. Position. During the advance from the Red to the Blue Line there was not much rifle or machine gun fire opposite the left of the 43rd Infantry Brigade. The enemy were chiefly in his dugouts waiting to surrender. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2008 Fritz, There is a fair amount in this report, so I will e-mail it to you. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 16 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2008 The 42nd Infantry Brigade reports makes notes of prisoners taken from the 152nd, 160th & 162nd Regiments. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laughton Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 I haven't really mastered the art of reading these trench maps yet, although I did go an print off Chris's trench_maps.htm for my lesson. I have my grandfather's trench map 51B for April 9, 1917. He was in blocks 30, 25,26,27 moving east from Roclincourt. Do your images match any of that area? I have a number of overlays of these on Google Earth so it would be great to do those with real images from that era. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Fritz, Another map from the 14th Div's diary that might be of use. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndrewHadden Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Hello Andy (streathhamandy), sorry, please try it here again. Fritz Fritz-have found the posts-thanks very much-very useful,& incredible to find some of the names involved in this action.As it was previous to the main offensive,it is often overlooked..... All the best, Andy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Andy's, Fritz, Jim Here is a view of the Cojeul Switch, first behind Telegraph Hill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 17 April , 2008 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Andy, Thanks, kept getting e-mails to you bounced back today, your e-mail capacity filled??? Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Hello Andy, thank you for the report of 43rd Brigade. Needs time to prove it intensivly. When I look into your last map it seems that the section of Cojeul Switch from Mule lane to direction of NV (my GF`s position) must attacked by 43rd Brigade. But my GF told he was captured by Scots (cause he saw their kilts). I suppose London Scottish or had been their other Scottish troops? Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Havrincourt Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Hello Andy try me again please Fritz here is another view of the Switch NE of the village Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Hello Andy H. thanks for your latest post. You made a direct hit. Point 98 perhaps 100 m northern of the crossing ways was the headquarters of I.R. 163`s front-battalion (called Kampftruppen-Kommandeur short K.T.K.). Jim had been there and found any concrete remains of it. 98 was very near the right boundary to I.R. 162. Their own section reached to the south to NV. Go on! Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fritz Posted 17 April , 2008 Share Posted 17 April , 2008 Second direct hit, just the place where my GF had been. Great! Fritz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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