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Remembered Today:

Baltic Submarine Crews.


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Dear Sadsac

Thank you for the information ,itis the Submarine

Service i am really interested in .

Did you know that Cherida Stocks was a famous

aviator ?, she was the Second Lady to gain her Pilots licence

in this Country.

I am looking for a photo of Lt Carter ,i have checked

the Submarine museum ,they have nothing ,and all the Books

i have, but nothing , if anyone has any ideas ,they would be

much appreciated.

Many thanks

Colin :mellow:

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Hi Sadsac,

Goodhart mentions going to the hospital in Reval Jan 1916 where he saw four men. One he said was his own crew member from E8 named Higgins. Any idea who this is?

Cheers DB.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Those researching Great War deaths in the Baltic might be interested to know that the following are buried in the New Garrison Cemetery, Tallinn, Estonia

John Ackland M.S.M.

Squadron Quarter Master Sergeant, Royal Army Service Corps

Died 18th August 1920

Thomas Baker, R.N.

Leading Stoker, H.M. Submarine “E19”, Royal Navy

Died 24th February 1917

J Buss

Leading Seaman, H.M. Submarine “E19”, Royal Navy

Died 20th March 1917

William Greenall Coe

Engine Room Artificer, H.M. Submarine “E19”, Royal Navy

Died 13th March 1917

Henry David Cook Craig M.C.

Major, 2nd Bn Highland Light Infantry, British Military Mission in the Baltic

Died 13th February 1920

William Flockhart

Engine Room Artificer, H.M.S Gentian, Royal Navy

Died 15th July 1919

E Haigh

Able Seaman, H.M.S. Gentian, Royal Navy

Died 15th July 1919

J Hirst

Able Seaman, H.M.S. Gentian, Mine Clearance Service, Royal Navy Voluntary Reserve

Died 12th July 1919

Frederick Charles Langridge D.S.M.

Leading Stoker, H.M. Submarine “E19”, Royal Navy

Died 6th July 1916

Edward Madden M.C

Leading Stoker, H.M.S. Hexham, Royal Navy

Died 12th June 1919

Ernest Petford

Cook’s Mate, H.M.S Maidstone, Royal Navy

Died 2 November 1919

F G Rampton

Chief Petty Officer, H.M.S. Princess Margaret, Royal Navy

Died 30th July 1919

Henry Frederick William Raxworthy

Able Seaman, H.M.S. Dragon, Royal Navy

Died 11th December 1919

William Swanson Ross

Master, S.S. Kennett, Mercantile Marine

Died 22nd September 1916

Fred. H. Harris

S.S. Gloucester Coast, Mercantile Marine

Died 26th July 1919

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A few years ago I bought some old photos from a "junk" shop here in Mid-Wales. They are mostly of C class submarines in the Baltic c. 1916. The quality of the photos is not great but here is one of them. On the back written in pencil is C 35 Crew in the Baltic.



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Been on holidays and just notice your item on the C class photos. Great shot of C35 and part of the crew. I'm working on crew lists for the c class at the moment. The photos are a good find. Would love to see the others out of interest.

One for Colin, in relation to what we have told you about Edwin Young, E8's signalman. We have found E8 has someone else named as her signalman as well, his name is John Lawson #J4162. Sadsac mentioned Young didn't join E8 until March 1916, if this turns out to be the case then this explains why you don't have a Russian medal. Will look into this as something is strange with E8 having 2 signalman listed at the same time.

Cheers Darren.

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Hello Darren,

There are 15 photos which were altogether in the same box. Most are obviously Baltic submarine related, 4 are not but are R.N. WW1 period. Anyway here is another one, written on the back in pencil is "Submarine C 27 in the Baltic 1916".




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Hi Darren

Very interesting ,that would solve the mystery ,although i would have prefered it to have been the other way.

The group did come mounted as worn,without a Russian on the end.

Colin :blush:

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Hi Arabis

Postcards are good quality , pity they never bothered to put any names

to them, most inconsiderate. I often nose through P/Cards at fairs but i never

find anything this interesting. :angry2:


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Hi Arabis,

another good shot of C27 and some of her crew. Looks to me like two Russian's on board her as well. I agree with Colin in that they are very interesting shots, like i said in my previous thread i'm trying to get some good crew lists together for the Baltic subs, this includes the C class. You never know we could ID some of the chaps in the photos. Would be great if i could see the other photos, eitherby this site or by private message.

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Hi Arabis,

Below is some C27 names i have so far. You never know but some of the crew in your photos could be ID. Would love to see the rest somehow, i can see the C27 shot has two Russians onboard. You really have had a good find.

Colin, i have Mr Brian Head from the RNSM looking into the signalman issue for E8, we'll see what he comes up with, but he won't be at the museum for a little while. If Sadsac is correct then Young joined E8 in March 1916 from Spare Crew, thus missing out on sinking Prinz Adalbert. The Eyes and Ears photo i have always wondered why the one marked as Young had HMS Dolphin on his Tally and not Maidstone like the others. Young i thought should have Maidstone, getting signalman Lawsons papers might give you the answer. There is always the possibilty that E8 carried two signalman for a period to cover for Gaby being in the cells, even though a Russian was doing Gaby's telegraphist role.

Cheers Darren.

Booth, Joseph William, ERA, #272304 of Barrow-in-Furness, Lancashire, Born 1891.

Brand, Albert, Leading Seaman, #K13431 of Sheffield, Yorkshire, Born 1889.

Cooper, William Wilcox, Leading Signalman, #239571 of Saint Vigeans, Forfarshire, Born 1892.

Hudson, John James, Able Seaman, #J1886 of South Hackney, London, Born 1892.

Ling, Henry Joseph, Petty Officer Coxswain, #228181 of Deptford, Kent, Born 1888.

Mansbridge, John, Petty Officer, #193936 of Ditchling, Sussex, Born 1880.

Rayment, John, Able Seaman, #234573 of Grays, Essex, Born 1888.

Rose, Thomas William, Able Seaman, #J3492 of Kingston on Thames, Surrey, Born 1892.

Scott, George Andrew Alexander, Stoker Petty Officer, #310703 of Berwick, Northumberland, Born 1886.

Simms, William Fred Jeffries, Leading Seaman, #214773 of Epsom, Surrey, Born 1885.

Skeet, John Henry, ERA, #272521 of Rawalpindi, India, Born 1884.

Steel, Algernon Percy, Able Seaman, #214623 of Cranleigh, Surrey, Born 1885.

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Darren & Colin,

My knowledge of submarines is very limited but could this one be an E class? Did the C class boats mount a gun? Alas there is nothing written on the back.


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The papers i have of Sign Young ,state

Maidstone 1 April 1915 - 31 August 1916

Submarine E19 4 August 1916 - 24 July 1917

Dolphin 25 July 1917 - 13 December 1917

Dolphin L2 14 December 1917 - 27 December 1917

Colin :wacko:

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Hi Colin/ Arabis,

Colin, with signalman Young we'll have to wait and see if the RNSM can look into the conflicting info. That photo Eyes and Ears you have was definately taken between January the 9th 1916 to when E18 left for her last patrol on the 25-5-1916. Those with medals received them in November 1915 and at that time Gaby was in the cells and didn't get out until the 9-1-1916. We'll have to ask Sadsac where he's info came from regarding Young being in Spare Crew until March 1916.

Arabis, another great shot and one i can confirm to be an E Class submarine with other E Class in the Background. If i'm corrected with this then so be it, but at a guess i would say the submarine in question is the E8. What i believe the photo shows is the gun and wireless deck tube on the rear side of the conning, tower, something unique to E8. I notice on the photo is some writting on the lower right hand corner, on the original can you make anything out?

So if this is part of E8's gun crew then here's some into of E8's Gunlayer,

Savory, Dennis, Able Seaman, #234827 of Norwich, Norfolk, Born 1887. Gun Layer, E8‘s cook after Gaby left, also became Goodhart‘s personal assistant.

Once again another good find, as i mentioned i would love to ID some other shots.

Hope this is of some interest. DB.

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Hi Darren,

Thanks for the identification & information on E 8. I was afraid you were going to ask me about the writing on the front & I have gone cross-eyed looking at it through an eye glass. It looks like "With compliments A. J. Carey" but I am not certain.

Another photo for you, written in pencil on the back is "Submarine C 26 & C 35 on Dock in Russia".




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Hi Arabis,

thanks for a look at this great photo of the C boats in the floating dock, this photo has been produced before and is featured in the RNSM book called the Forgotten Flotilla, Page 207, however you have now managed to come with which submarines they were, the one in the book doesn't say C26 and C35. As for the name on your E8 photo, i can't find an A J Carey in any crew lists i have, however on C26 is this chap below so see if this could be the spelling on your photo. Just a long shot but you never know, the only one close. I would love to know who the orginal owner was of the photos, hope to see more.

Cossey, Alfred John, Able Seaman, #J10240 of Exeter, Devon, Born 1893.

As for the E8 shot, the crew seem to be running a new wireless cable from the wireless deck tube and the chap on the right is holding the end of this in his hand. The wireless deck tube is behing the sailor on the left. I had another look at the other subs in the Baltic, E8 was the only one with her wireless deck tube behind the conning tower, E13 also had the same setup but had her gun forward of the conning tower. Of interest the other boats had their tube in front of the gun and not behind it. Below is a photo of E8 that will confirm to you your photo.

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Darren, Arabis, Colin, have been `away' and also had PC probs of late so have missed your previous dits re the photo's & crews etc.

Follows what I have on Carey - note NOT A.J but Harry J (same) ??? ;

CAREY HARRY JAMES STO C/K 20069 RFR B 14190 NE RN RFR 060795 061216

SC 161206




E8 181117 AMBROSE

E45 190623 TITANIA


E53 191110 DOLPHIN



JOINED RN 140813


Also have ditto COSSEY if required.

Keep up all good work Sadsac

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Hello All, herewith Savory details :



E8 160801 E19



L12 180711 LUCIA



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Darren, I have a John Allan HIGGINS No. D/J 668 but do not think he is `your' chap.

Served C29

No other HIGGINS that I have fit your requirements.


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Hi Sadsac,

welcome back, you were missed. I contacted the Leeds Uni who gave me a list of who they have on their tapestry. They had a G W Higgins and i only found one on the national archives site, Higgins, George William, Able Seaman, #J5346 of Slough, Buckinghamshire, Born 1892. Goodhart visited him in the hospital in Reval in January 1916. Still have to confirm him though.

One i'm having trouble with is a J Jones from E1. He married a local Estonian girl on the 4-6-1916, because of the surname i can't find him, he is on the Russian Medal list.

From E8 i'm having trouble with Able Seaman Vale, and a Leading Stoker J Dale. Also J Lawson, was he on E8 as her signalman prior to Young joining in March 1916?

From E9 i found this name on the Leeds Tapestry, Mackay, A, Petty Officer, haven't found him yet.

For E19 they had these names, Allen J G, Campbell J Leading Stoker, Harris J Petty Officer, Heath E T, Simpson G, Stoker, Thompson S, Able Seaman.

I aslo saw Horace Pritchett on an E19 list, he was killed on E18. On the tapestry he's listed as spare crew when those transferred to E18 were already listed on thr tapestry as E18. I do believe he replace John Ryan when E18 left for her last patrol.

Cheers DB.

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Hi Darren & Sadsac,

I`ve had another look at the signature on the E 8 photo. The clearest bits are the initials A.J. & the letter y at the end. The ink has faded away from the rest of it & only the impression of the pen is left, but the spacing would fit Cossey rather than Carey. So tentatively it is A.J. Cossey. Tonights photo has "Submarine C 26 C35 on Dock" written in pencil on the back. The handwriting on the C class photos is by the same person but the one on the E 8 photo seems different.




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Hello Darren, `Et Al' ;

JONES GEORGE RICHARD SPO P/ 239038 NE RN 250591 140816


C27 161010 E19 BASE


V1 181017 ALECTO




L4 200818 AMBROSE

L9 210201 AMBROSE

AMBROSE 21114 C & M


R10 240312 DOLPHIN







NOT E1, but have sent as a `possible' in `C' Photo's.

KOKO Sadsac

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Hi Arabis/Sadsac,

Another good shot of C26/35 in the floating dock, they certainly weren't into workplace occupational heath and safety with the state of the floating dock. Do you know what the other naval shots are that you said don't relate to subs, could be a clue to Cossey and where he went after the Baltic. I must say the chap on our right in the E8 shot, i have seen him in another photo, will wrack my brain on him.

Sadsac, probabily not the J Jones i'm looking at, he's the only E1 man i'm having trouble with now.

Cheers DB.

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Hi Darren,

I will post the Baltic subs photos first & leave the others till last. This one is a full size postcard of a Russian sailor. It might have been taken aboard the depot ship Dvina as I have another shot of submarines alongside Dvina [it is not the same photo as the one in Michael Wilson`s book] which I will post later. There are a couple of names in pencil on the back for you to look at which I have also posted.




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Here is the reverse of the Russian sailor photo.



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Hi Arabis,

trying to match up the names on the back of your latest photo but to no avail. What's you call on the names?

I'll have better luck with the subs with Dvina.

Cheers DB.

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