Baltic Submarine Crews.

[Signals]

Hi All,

there seems to be quite a bit of interest in the Baltic Submarines and their crews. I thought i would start a new topic on these men in the hope we can all share our information and people can list what they know about the crews. I have been doing quite a bit of research on the crews and would love to hear from anyone with information who can add to this starter. I thought i would start with the five signalman from the 5 E class subs.

E1 Henry Samuel Grundy, #J5004 Born 28-9-1893, arrived back from Baltic 8-6-1917. Left Navy 1920.

E8 Ernest Edwin Young, #J3794, Born 6-7-1893, arrived back from Baltic 25-7-1917. Joined L2 and then K14, Discharged Dec 1919.

E9 Alfred James Burtenshaw, #226545, Born 2-12-1887, was also E9's cook, arrived back from the Baltic 27-1-1917,(the first draft home), joined J6 and later rejoined Max Horton again on the M1, Discharged in 1929.

E18 Albert Edward Robinson, #239489, Born 14-9-1891, came from C20 where he met his wife in Dundee, missed E18's last patrol, arrived back from Baltic 27-1-1917, (first draft home), joined E4 in May 1917, L15 in October for three weeks, joined K class in Rosyth, left Navy 1920, joined Reserve and lived in Dundee, joined Australian Navy Reserve in 1929 after moving there, died in Melbourne Australia, 31-8-1956, second last of E18's original crew to pass away.

E19 William Augustis Garrod, #J6369, Born 2-2-1894, arrived back from Baltic 25-7-1917, joined L4, disacharged Jan 1920 and joined reserve.

I can add more lists so we'll see how this goes. All the signalman were sent home early, their experience was sorely needed back home and their roles in the Baltic were being done by the Russians anyway.

Darren.

[submarine]

Sorry i totaly missed this thread,i can`t add much but here goes.

E.E.Young J3794 L/Signalman

Ernest Edwin Young

DOB 6th July 1893 at Canning Town

he was a Glass Blower and 5` 2" tall

Enlisted 18th March1909 aged 15 yrs and 8 mths.

Submarine service

Bonaventure 2 June 1913 - 4Aug 1914

Thames 5 Aug 1914 - 31 March 1915

Maidstone 1 April - 3 Aug 1916

Submarine E19 4 Aug - 24 July 1917

Dolphin 25 July 1917- 13 Dec 1917

Submarine L2 14 Dec 1917 - 27 Dec 1917

Ambrose L2 28 Dec 1917 - 21 June 1919

Crescent K14 22 June 1919 - 21 Oct 1919

Dolphin 22 Oct 1919 - 18 Dec 1919

He was on L2 when she was attacked by 3 USA Destroyers Pauding : Davis and Trippe

see E.Keble Chatterton " Danger Zone". : Colin

[sadsac]

Darren, further to Sig YOUNG ;

YOUNG ERNEST EDWIN SIG C/J 3794 RN

Joined Subs 02 June 1913

TC 150602 BONAVENTURE THAMES MAIDSTONE

E8 160301 E19

SC 170816

HYDROPHONE 171110

L2 171214 VICKERS BARROW

L2 171227 AMBROSE

K14 190621 CRESCENT

ADDL 191022 DOLPHIN

FREE DISCHARGE 191218

Good thought to gather Baltic bods info together.

Regards Sadsac / DAF

[sadsac]

Darren, further to Baltic crews ;

GRUNDY D.o.B ; 280993 P.o.B ; CAMBRIDGE

ADM 188 / 657

BURTENSHAW D.o.B ; 021287 P.o.B ; LITTLEHAMPTON SUSSEX

ADM 188 / 400

ROBINSON P.o.B ; LIMEHOUSE LONDON D.o.B ; 140991

ADM 188 / 425

GARROD P.o.B ; LOWESTOFT SUFFOLK D.o.B ; 020294

ADM 188 / 659

YOUNG D.o.B ; 060793 P.o.B ; Canning Town London

ADM 188 / 654

Not much, most you must have - but `in case' !

KOKO Sadsac

[Signals]

Hello All,

only just noticed the reply to this thread. The following is the list of British Telegraphists in the Baltic subs.

1. E1, George Alexander Knight, #J8438. He was courting a local girl in Reval and tried to swap with E19's telegraphist not to go home early. He did get sent back early with a major portion of E1's original crew in June 1917 and was duly killed on the K class subs in the Battle of May Island.

2. E8 George Gaby, #J1764. On the 9-10-1915 Lt Cdr Francis Goodhart found a bottle of beer on the wireless cabinet in E8 the day after 3 days worth of Volka rations had been stolen. Goodhart and Laurence threw Gaby in the cells for 90 days. On getting out of the cells he went to spare crew and his first patrol was on E18's last to take the place of her British signalman. He was duly killed.

3. E9 didn't have a British telegraphist. When she got through to the Baltic she had no radio gear and was kitted out with a Russian set and also a Russian Telegraphist.

4. E18 Clement Harry Edwards #J8503, came from C34 and was killed on E18.

5. E19 Leonard Benson(Ben). #J341 The only telegraphist from the Baltic to survive the war. Has left his memiors with the Royal Navy Sub Museum. Died in the 1980's when he was in his 90's.

If anyone knows of any other crews members please add to list. The next one i'll do is for the first 12 ratings to return home to England.

Cheers Darren.

[submarine]

Hi Darren and Sadsac

I was interested to note you have J3794 E.E.Young as being a member of

E8 ?, I have his Group in my collection which came with much Research + the

research i hve carried out,none of which shows him as being on E8,but on E19 :L2 :

and K4. I was wondering where your information came from, i have his papers from

NA ,and the Museum has no record of him.

Colin

[Signals]

Hi Colin,

On his papers does it just say E19 in August 1916? This is when the base became it's own and called E19. There were only 5 signalman over there as they mainly used the Russian signalman. His name was given to me as on E8 via the Royal Navy Sub Museum. The signalman on E1, E9, are listed on Russian Medal lists while E18's and E19's are also confirmed. Young was definatley not on E19. Was there a Russian medal with your set?

The Royal Navy Sub Mueseum have a photo of tthe 5 signaman and four telegraphists together in Russia.

Cheers DB.

[submarine]

Darren

Yes : Maidstone 1 April 1915 to 3 Aug 1916

Sub E19 4 Aug 1916 to 24 July 1917

Dolphin 25 July 1917 to 13 Dec 1917

Dolphin (L2) 14 Dec 1917 to 27 Dec 1917

Ambrose (L2) 28 Dec 1917 to 21 June 1919

Crescent (K14) 22 June 1919 to 21 Oct 1919

There is no Russian award on the Group. The Group is

1914/15 Trio + R.F.R. LS&GC .

Colin

[submarine]

Darren

Sorry i should of asked ,does your records show he is entittled to

a Russian Award ? and is he shown on the Photograph at the Museum ?.

Colin

[sadsac]

Colin,

E8 01 03 1916 E19

SC 16 08 1917 - SC = Spare Crew

Young was drafted to E8 - E19 was the `Depot ship' (accounting base) to submarines in the Baltic.

Info from `Ratings Card' / my file in RNSM

Regards DAF / Sadsac

[Signals]

Hi Colin,

i can't see Signalman Young's papers showing a Russian award. There is no reason why he shouldn't have one as they all received them for sinking Prinz Adalbert. He is in the photo i speak of, you need to ask the Sub Museum about a photo called `EYES & EARS OF THE BALTIC SUBMARINES. It was taken once GABY was out of the cells as he's also in it, so it was taken fron Jan 1916 to when E18 was lost. In it Signalman Grundy, E1, Signalman Burtenshaw, E9, and signalman Garrod, E19, are the only ones wearing their medals and Young isn't. Everyone has Maidstone on the tally's except Young who has Dolphin. Young is sitting directly behing the signal Flags and sign EYES & EARS! It's a very clear photo for it's time and you can easily see the markings on their uniforms. It was taken on board the Russian Depot ship Dvina.

Hope this is of some help.

Darren.

[MartH]

Michael Wilson's Baltic Assignment has got some interesting photos of the crews, including them getting the Russian awards. What me to scan and post?

Regards

Mart

[sadsac]

Darren, `Et Al', more on Baltic crews,

AMPLEFORD Arthur Henry STO C/K 23522 RN 030294

Joined Submarines 031016

SC 161003 DOLPHIN

C15 161117 ARROGANT

SC 170208 DOLPHIN

SC 170223 E19 BALTIC

E8 170306 E18 BALTIC

SC 180122 DOLPHIN

SC 180405 CRESCENT

K14 190221 CRESCENT

G13 190728 TITANIA

G13 190928 TITANIA

G13 191011 DOLPHIN

SC 191013 DOLPHIN

M3 191202 DOLPHIN

SC 191221 DOLPHIN

DISCHARGED TO G S 231219

JOINED RN 121114 SENIOR IN RATING 190815

D.o.B ; 030294 P.o.B ; Willesden London ADM 188 / 914

KOKO DAF / Sadsac

[Signals]

Hi All,

here's some to get your teeth into, these are crew of E9 who are on the Russian Medal list. I only have four listed with official numbers at this stage so i'l be interested if anyone has the others numbers.

I have never seen Ampleford attached to E18 so this is quite interesting. Was he only on her for a short time? I believe there i still someone missing from E18's original crew, can't find him though. P.O. John Ryan was part of spare crew, he went to E18 late 1915/eary 1916 and replaced? Yes put Baltic Assignment photos on, maybe some people can I.D. some photos.

E9'S ratings with Russian Medals.

1. S. Gibbs, Petty Officer.

>

> 2. H. Smith, Petty Officer.

>

> 3 William Powell, Leading Seaman, # 182354, Killed on E18.

>

> 4. G. Evans, Leading Seaman.

>

> 5. George Harry Millyand, Leading Seaman.#230208, back to England

> 27-1-1917.

>

> 6. Alfred Burtenshaw, Leading Signalman, #226545.Back to England

> 27-1-1917.

>

> 7. F.Bown, Able Seaman.

>

> 8. E. Hamphreys, Able Seaman.

>

> 9. G. Schutterlin, Able Seaman.

>

> 10. K. Ambrose, Able Seaman.

>

> 11. T. Raynor, Able Seaman.

>

> 12. W. Gartwaite, Cheif Engine Room Artifcer.

>

> 13. T.Collis, ERA.

>

> 14. A. Wallace, ERA.

>

> 15. G. Bonhom.

>

> 16. T. Pallin, Cheif Stoker.

>

> 17. H. Matheus, Stoker Petty Officer.

>

> 18. W.Buick, Leading Stoker.

>

> 19. W. Cook, Stoker.

>

> 20. H. Oldridge, Stoker.

>

> 21. G. Hutchings, Stoker.

>

> 21. T. Baker, Stoker.

>

> 22. F. Languidge, Stoker.

>

> 23. S. Western, Able Seaman.

>

> 24. S. Sayers, Able Seaman.

>

> 25. Charles Willam Cheeseman, Leading Stoker, # 307325. He also won a

> medal while on E1.

>

> 26. T. Bickford, Stoker.

[sadsac]

Darren - E9 No's - note some different name spelling - suspect mine correct !!

Smith H P/ 215511

Powell W P/ 182354

Millyard George Harry P/ 230298

Bown f P/219867

ALDRIDGE H P/ 222882 DSM CSG

Ambrose R note R C/J 1365

Wallace A P/M 1390

MATTHEWS not Matheus H P/ 300193

Buick W P/308544

Cook W J C/K 6363

Hutchungs G P/K 23 RAN 9290

Baker T C/K 2171

LANGRIDGE not Languidge F P/K 6765 DD E9 at Reval

Western S D/J 6238

Nothing on the other - yet

More to come - DAF Sadsac

[sadsac]

Darren - Some E9 ers you did not `mention'

BARTON Frederick James C/J 12041

BURNETT E C/M 465

CARSLAKE Alfred E D/J 5430 Coxswain

FERGUSSON James C/K 17871

HAYWOOD Benjamin P/SS 115433

PHILLIPS Albert Charles S D/J 6999

STEVENSON Percival J P/K 1628

SHOARD William George D/K 4777

WADEY John Francis D/K 5241

WEST John W C P/K 13450

BURTENSHAW Alfred J 226545

Sadsac

[sadsac]

Darren - again - here's ONE

SMITH HORACE ARTHUR CPO TGM P/215511 RN 091124 - 240514

TC 091124

MERCURY 110701

ARROGANT 120831 DOLPHIN

E9 140618 MAIDSTONE

E9 160801 DOLPHIN E9 BALTIC

SC 180115 DOLPHIN

FORTH TGM 180223 LENT VERNON

SC 180719 DOLPHIN

H15 180727 U.S.A.

ADDL 181223 DOLPHIN

No 37 190107 SPECIAL CREW U164

H BOAT TRG 190121 LENT VULCAN H32

H32 190226 VICKERS BARROW

HOSP 190404 DOLPHIN

ADDL 190418 FORTH

R8 190730 FORTH

ADDL 191112

TO VICTORY FOR G.S. 28.11.19 AFO 2924/17

ADDL 240514 DOLPHIN

DISCHARGED TO SHORE. PENSIONED FROM DOLPHIN 3.4.26

Regards DAF / Sadsac

[sadsac]

Darren - Ampleford E8 / E18 ;

Joined 6 March 1917 to Spare Crew Dolphin 22 Jan 18 - 10 months.

Sadsac

[historydavid]

Boats and men lost in the Baltic:

E 18, not heard from after 26th May 1916, likely to have been lost W from Osel, casualties:

BAGG, EDWIN A., A/C.P.O., 177854 (Po)

BASS, WILLIAM G., L/SEAMAN, 201300 (Ch)

CLACK, FREDERICK, P.O., 195904 (Po)

COLSON, DOUGLAS N., S/LT, RNR

DUFFIELD, PERCY, STOKER 1c, K 18506 (Dev)

EDWARDS, CLEMENT H., L/TELEGRAPHIST, J 8503 (Po)

FOX, ERNEST A., STOKER 1c, K 9171 (Ch)

FULLER, MAURICE H., E.R.A. 2c, 271261 (Po)

GABY, GEORGE, TELEGRAPHIST, J 1764 (Po)

GALLOWAY, JAMES K., E.R.A. 1c,, RNR, E A 1085

GODWARD , CYRIL F., A.B., J 7415 (Ch)

GUEST, THOMAS E., STOKER 1c K 4295 (Po)

HALAHAN, ROBERT C., LCDR

HALL, ALBERT G., STOKER 1c, K 14150 (Ch)

HARRIS, HERBERT T., L/STOKER, 302072 (Po)

HOLLAND, CHARLES W., E.R.A. 3c, 271983 (Ch)

HUNT, CHARLES, STOKER 1c, K 13248 (Po)

LANDALE, WALTER L., LT

MADDOX, FRANK L., A.B., 224189 (Po)

NYE, PERCY J.P., STOKER 1c, K 9941 (Ch)

PERCY, JAMES R., A/L/STOKER, K 6463 (Ch)

PHILLIPS, ARTHUR P., L/STOKER, 309511 (Po)

POWELL, WILLIAM G., A.B., 182354 (Po)

PRITCHETT, HORACE E., A.B., J 4417 (Ch)

RUAUX, ERNEST W., L/SEAMAN, 205600 (Po)

SHEPPARD, SAMUEL A., STOKER P.O., 289749 (Po)

SPENCER, WILLIAM C., E.R.A. 1c , 271190 (Po)

TURRALL, CHARLES W.,P.O., 204563 (Po)

WELSH, SYDNEY A., A.B., 224767 (Dev)

WHITE, FREDERICK, L/SEAMAN, J 3791 (Ch)

E 9, casualties:

BUSS, JAMES, L/SEAMAN, 192472, 20-Mar-17, Estonia

BAKER, THOMAS, L/STOKER, K 2171, 24-Feb-17, Estonia, DIED OF WOUNDS

COE, WILLIAM G., E.R.A. 3c, M 4476, 13-Mar-17, Estonia

24th October 1917, C 32, damaged, run ashore in Vaist Bay, crew rescued, no casualties

3rd April 1918 E 1, scuttled at Helsingfors, Finland, no casualties

4th April 1918 E 8, scuttled at Helsingfors, Finland, no casualties

3rd April 1918 E 9, scuttled at Helsingfors, Finland, no casualties

3rd April 1918 E 19, scuttled at Helsingfors, Finland, no casualties

4th April 1918 C 26, scuttled at Helsingfors, Finland, no casualties

5th April 1918 C 27, scuttled at Helsingfors, Finland, no casualties

5th April 1918 C 35, scuttled at Helsingfors, Finland, no casualties

And not forgetting the man who led the activities:

CROMIE, FRANCIS A.N., CDR (A/CAPTAIN), Naval Attache, Petrograd, 31-Aug-18, KILLED by Bolsheviks

Hope this helps

David

[Signals]

Hi All,

David, you have touched on a subject that i find hard to get to the bottom of. Has anyone seen any concrete evidence of whether the scutlled Baltic Submarines were raised? Baltic Assignment mentions E1 being raised in 1953, also on the interenet they mention a German company in the 1950's raising them. Concrete evidence would have to be some photos of this operation. No-one seems sure. Some say they were raised in the 1927, i have seen this original report which states they raised the back end of one C class and the crate of spare torpedos, that's all.

Sadsac, back to Ampleford, your notes, are they suggesting he arrived in the Baltic early 1917, if so E18 was gone by then. I was aslo interested to read you have Perceval James Stevenson on E9, i wondered what happed to him, he was on E18 and thrown in the cells with E18's Sexton in November 1915. In relation to E9 i have a photograph of the tapestry in Leeds Uni showing the Baltic crews signatures who visited the Wallwork family during WW1. My great grandfather, E18's signalman A.E. Robinson is on it, next to his name is John Ryan(Paddy). Ryan was in spare crew, went to E18 late 1915, had measles and missed E18's last patrol. On this tapestry he is listed as on E9. It is known he later went to E19.

I have done a little work on E8's ratings, need to do alot more, try these out,

Asher

Asker Frederick , #271568

Berryman.

Eastman, John, Torpedos

Gaby, George, # J1764. Telegraphist and cook. Sent to cells 9-10-1915, Spare Crew Jan 1916, Killed on E18.

Harris, Herbert Thomas, #302072, Leading Stoker. Was on E8 until transferred to E18 in April 1915, Killed on E18.

Kirkwood, Jock. was in charge of cleaning toilets on Dvina.

Maunders, Petty Officer.

Newbound, William Edward, #K3367, Leading Stoker, back to England 27-1-1917.

Perry, Petty Officer Stoker.

Savoury, Gun Layer. Also personal assistant to Lt Cdr Francis Goodhart and cook after Gaby left.

Sexton, Charles Henry. #212059. Able Seaman, was originally on E18 but thrown in cells on the 19-11-1915 for theft, later transferred to E8.

Thomas, Coxswain Cheif Petty Officer.

Vale, Able Seaman.

Young, Ernest Edwin, #J3794, Signalman. Home to England 24-7-1917. To L2 and then K14.

[MartH]

Hi

I also recall some where raised in the 1960's and some items being given to Prince Phillip on a trip to Helsinki.

Having trouble scanning the pics, should have it sorted this afternoon.

Regards

[submarine]

Dear Darren and Sadsac

Thank you for your help with E.E.Young, I had no idea that E19 was a Submarine and

Depot. The Group came from a top London Auction room,which like my own research pointed

to the Submarine. I now feel like i have a new Group to research.Thanks for the tip with the

Photo, Debbie Corner has already sent a copy,she is so helpful.

The nice thing about this hobby is you never stop learning,and all you guys help in

that quest.

I have a small pocket diary which i bought from Ebay some time ago, to CPO Rowand

Bicker, he went to the Baltic (not sure if he served ) Sorry i will post later.

Many thanks and best wishes

Colin

[sadsac]

Colin / Darren, note ; CPO Bicker - ROWLAND

Rusky gongs - I have Cross St George ( CSG )

WARREN

YEARSLEY

THOMAS

POWELL

FRY

ALDRIDGE

Further details re name / rank etc if required

Sadsac

[sadsac]

Colin / Darren,

My HUTCHUNGS - as you were ! - read HUTCHINGS

re BICKER ;

BICKER ROWLAND CPO P/ 224812 RFR 081087

141108 TC DOLPHIN

ARROGANT

DOLPHIN

E25

SC

ADDL

G6

DEMOBILISED RE-ENTERED RN 200719

ADDLL21

ADDL

LENT VERNON TC COURSE

ADDL

K6

M1

DD M1 121125 AGE 38 GLR 15

H.M. Submarine M.1 was struck and sunk by S.S. VIDAR, of the Stockholm Steamship Company, off Start Point, in the English Channel. The wreck of M.1 was discovered in September, 1967.

There were no survivors.

HMS DOLPHIN. ADM 104 / 111. Record NR 10117. Page 153.

English Channel. Loss of S/M M.1.

HMS DOLPHIN. ADM 188 / 396. N.P.2 4074 / 25.

P.o.B ; Melbourn, Herts. Occ ; T.S. WARSPITE. RFR/B/12810.

PRO File ADM 116 / 2292 reads ; Memorial Service over M.1. Thursday 19th November, 1925.

Ships / Boats taking part ; HMS ROSS, HMS ALECTO, Vessel A/S Flotilla,

Vessel A/P Flotilla, "L.22", "L.23", "H.32", "H.44", "H.22", "H.29", "H.30", "H.34".

[Signals]

Hi Colin,

more than happy to have helped, hopefully more info will come through for everyone about these crews. For years i told people my great grandfather was E19's signalman until Mr Brian Head sorted me out and my grandmother told me he was on E18, on my grandmother's birth certificate from April 1916 it states her father was a signalman on submarine E18, just wish i had seen this earlier. You'll find all Baltic Sub crews have Maidstone until the 3-8-1916 then all their paers change to E19 on the 4-8-1916. Hope you like the Eyes & Ears photo. The sub museum sent it to me so my grandmother could I.D. her father in it, which she did, from here Brian Head and I worked out who the others were. It's one of my favorite photos. If they didn't tell you whos who, refer to my threads on the Telegraphists and signaman in the Baltic. Standing on our left is Gaby, Telegraphist on E8 and killed on E18, Leonard Benson, (Ben), Telegraphist E19, George Knight, Telegraphist E1, Clement Edwards Ldg Telegraphist E18, Albert Edward Robinson signalman E18, (my great grandfather).

Sitting on our left is Grundy, Signalman E1, Young Signalman E8, Garrod signalman E19 and Burtenshaw, signalman E9.

Sadsac, you mention some names, WARREN, YEARSLEY,THOMAS, FRY, do you have their official numbers and know what sub they were on as i only know of Thomas on E8. Goodhart had to choose 5 men to have their decorations personally given to them by the Czar and Thomas was one of them, the others were Asher, Perry, Maunders and Vale. He said he chosse Vale as it was his tube that fired the winning shot agaist Prinz Adalbert. He chose Vale over Knibbs who was in charge of the beam tubes.

I'm in the middle of putting E1's crew together which i'll post shortly. Don't have many names for E19 but i'll see what i can dig up.

Hope this is of interest.

Darren.