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easily_confused

Victoria Cross

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SPotter
An original VC is shown below......

Les.

One you randomly picked out of your VC collection, your Lordship ??? !!!

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eviltaxman
One you randomly picked out of your VC collection, your Lordship ??? !!!

Just one I had rattling around in a drawer :lol:

This particular VC is held by Bristol Museum and not on public display. It's part of a small collection built up by a chap who bought medals from Crimea "vets" and loaned them back (at a charge!!) to the men for parades etc.

Les.

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Nigel Marshall

Just going back to the King's South Africa Medal, as has been pointed out, it could not be awarded on it's own, but it is also virtually unknown without the two Clasps (South Africa 1901 & South Africa 1902) unless awarded to nursing sisters. Soldiers like Private Knight would have recieved the bars. It looks like this particular medal has not only lost its other half, but also its bars.

Is it me or is the VC in Easily's photo a touch on the small size when seen next to the MM?

Nigel

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welshdoc

As about 4 of the medals appear to be copies I think its a fair chance the "VC" just may be one as well.

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Nigel Marshall

Just had another look at the GVR MM...... The bar is wrong, wrong wrong!

Too deep from top to bottom.

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Stebie9173

No sign of a MM and/or Bar to 5719 Pte G Ryan during 1916 or 1917.

Steve.

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liverpool annie

I wonder if it could be this Ryan ??

RYAN, C

Cappawhite

Royal Irish Regiment

Military Medal

http://homepage.eircom.net/~tipperaryfame/medals.htm

Annie

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welshdoc

"I wonder if it could be this Ryan ??

RYAN, C

Cappawhite

Royal Irish Regiment

Military Medal

"

C Ryan RIR was 11053 so the numbers dont match.

infact the 3 even remotely possibles are I think the first one was a DCM .

Medal card of Ryan, C

Corps: Royal Irish Regiment

Regiment No: 8872

Rank: Corporal

1914-1920 WO 372/23

Medal card of Ryan, J

Corps: Royal Irish Regiment

Regiment No: 4944

Rank: Private

1914-1920 WO 372/23

Medal card of Ryan, C

Corps: Royal Irish Regiment

Regiment No: 11053

Rank: Lance Corporal

1914-1920 WO 372/23

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eviltaxman

The problem we've got here, I think, is that there were many many men "put up" for the VC but never received it and got the DSO, DCM, MC etc instead.

I've looked again at the photo supplied and as previously mentioned, the VC does look a tad smaller than the MM, but I think this may be an optical illusion. My reasoning behind this is that the ribbon appears to be narrower then normal thus the appearance of being smaller. I've sized up a VC and MM and most, if not all, my VC copies have slightly wider ribbon than the MM, even both medals are approx. 36mm wide.

Les.

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eviltaxman

Here's a photo of 3 VC & an MM. The 3 VC are shades of brown, dark brown and almost black. The black one is a museum quality display version (and cost an arm & a leg), where as the brown ones are your normal £20-£30 heavy weight copies.

The VC & MM are the same size, but note the difference in ribbon sizes.

dscf4212xb7.jpg

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eviltaxman

and here's one showing the difference in ribbon size -

dscf4217uh2.jpg

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welshdoc

Les, is there such a thing as an unnamed genuine and presented VC , In context with the other copy medals etc is it likely to be genuine??. There is a possible family history/myths who knows but the medals do not fit anything official that anyone on the forum can find. GAreth

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welshdoc

And as you point out the ribbon is smaller on the VC than the MM , but we know the MM is not genuine .

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eviltaxman
And as you point out the ribbon is smaller on the VC than the MM , but we know the MM is not genuine .

Like the VC & MM in my photos unfortunately :P

As far as I am aware, there have been a handful of copies produced for the families of the recipient, but they are named etc in the usual manner, but also marked as a replacement. This is when the original has been lost/stolen and the man in question is no longer around. Replacements to living recipients are identical to the "lost" medal. I've never actually seen either version of a "replacement", but having spoken to several VC holders and museum curators, there's a mark added to the bottom of the reverse.

Les

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John_Hartley

Way, way back, in the deepest depths of time that was post #50, I suggested to "easily confused" that if she thought this might be genuine she should contact Hancocks, that day.

Until she comes back and tells us that they confirmed it was genuine and that it's now in a very secure place, we don't we just make the obvious assumption that it ain't genuine? And that, presumably, an ancestor of hers was "having a laff" at some point when the cabinet was made.

John

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staffsreg

Where's she gone?

last entry post #69.

Ivan.

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John_Hartley
Where's she gone?

Ivan

Just because a member doesnt constantly post on their own thread, doesnt mean they've "gone" anywhere. As a quick check on confused's profile confirmed to me.

I'm sure she appreciates the helpful contribution you made in post #57, though.

John

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per ardua per mare per terram

Given the way this thread has gone, why should she post anything more?

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welshdoc

I think by in large the posters on this thread have been fair and gave the benefit of the doubt also have spent considerable time trying to confirm entitlement. The fact that apart from the service numbers of the 2 Ryans and their 1915 star and 1945 star respectively nothing else holds up to scrutiny, so why should we not say so. If the original post is genuine then its a shame for them to be let down by the facts but so be it. Yes there have been a few comments but this reflects previous experiences of tall stories on the forum. gareth

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Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson
Given the way this thread has gone, why should she post anything more?

Exactly.

Roland.

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easily_confused

Hi all

So sorry I haven't replied at all today but I have been at work all day. I must say a huge THANK YOU to everyone who has taken the time and trouble in helping me in my search I have been totally blown away.

I must say i'm not sure where to go now with my research, I have got hold of a newspaper report that was written when my grandad died listing the medals he won, but now i'm begining to wonder maybe where the story came from. I think I will try and send for his service records thats if I can, to see if they will tell me anymore and also those of my great grandads. I don't know where to start in this but I will look it up.

I have to say this has been quite a turbulent journey, I wonder sometimes if family history is better left alone, was the family better off with the "family legend" or now not knowing what was going on lots of whys are being asked.

John Hartley regarding the VC I have suggested contacting Hancocks but as the medal has no names or anything inscribed we have taken the advice given on here and believe it to be a copy and at the end of the day it does not matter to us that it was a copy, grandad might not have earnt it but it was something he thought alot of.

Thanks again for all the trouble you have all gone to I am very grateful it's a great service that you offer.

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steve fuller
grandad might not have earnt it but it was something he thought alot of.

Yep, and that'll do nicely.

Been a pleasure to watch from the sidelines and, although its a shame we didnt get to see one of the famous "lost" ones surface, Im glad it settled where it has.

Best of luck :D

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TD60
I wonder if is there any connection between the G.Ryan and the two possibles J.Ryan or Miles Ryan ( his VC seems not to be located. )

http://www.answers.com/topic/john-ryan-vc

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miles_Ryan

Maybe a relative and a replica was made in the family ?

It may explain why it is alone in the box.

Regards

Do you think this hypothesis is plausible ?

It may explain why the familiy considers it as important.

Regards

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John_Hartley
Thanks again for all the trouble you have all gone to I am very grateful it's a great service that you offer.

Glad to have contributed - even if a couple of my posts have been firmly tongue in cheek. :D

I hope we've been able to do a bit of sorting wheat from chaff for you that will allow your research to focus more clearly.

I think I'd have liked grandad. He must have had a great story to tell abou the VC - perhaps he knew someone who had won one and he bought the copy to remember a mate or a relative (as TD60 suggests). If not, and he was just having a laugh, what a lot of bottle.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do with the information

John

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