Returning Lost Medals

[auchonvillerssomme]

ARZ Class Z Army Reserve. In December 1918 soldiers being demobilised were first posted to Class Z. They could return to civilian life but knew they were obliged to return if necessary. The Z Reserve was abolished on 31 March 1920.

Mick

[HarryBettsMCDCM]

As auchonvillers say Class Z Army Reserve,or Cl.Z Res;Cl.Z,which is normally how it is written,,etc;not seen it as ZAR before,I must say on any of my Index cards,you learn something new every day!

[chaz]

I might have missed a contribution to this thread. can i ask?

How does a relative prove to you that they are a relative? If a first war serviceman had 3 children, they had 3 children they had 3 children etc, there could perhaps be 40+ descendants. If he had no children then they would have gone to his parents who may have had no other children and no other relations, do you pass those ones back to the issuing authority?.

Mick

Mick, I have a slight agreement with this also.

another example is my wifes grandfathers WW2 medals, and his fathers Boer? war medals, mother-in-law and her sister both have one of each pair, and try as hard as I am I can not get them to either give me all four for safe keeping or have a pair each to the same one.

the other sticky point is mother-in-laws boyfriend ex RAF post WW2 has a OBE (+whatever), one of his sons isnt interested the other he wont speak to as he has had a sex change , where will that lot end up??/

[Glyn Llanwarne]

Hello again,

International time zones mean I have returned to a wealth of replies, please bear with me.

Tim, beer is a wonderful thing for the memory. When ever you are ready I'll jump onto your research.

Mel, thank you for your very kind and sincere comments.

Ian, the most amount of time I know of for a medal to be lost to the family that I've returned is 70 years. This was a WWI group sold during the depression which eventually came to me and I found the veterans great grand daughter. I have a China 1900 medal that was found in the 40's having been underground for many years. A rough guess would be that the average length on being missing is 40 years. So to answer your question 20 years is not uncommon so please don't give up hope.

Also thank you so much for your very kind comments. I have established some remarkable relationships with families I've contacted. There has been a lot of emotion and that is just from me. Of note I was involved in locating two Australian families whose forebears served in the NZEF and were executed during WWI. The NZ Government pardoned them last year so I chased down the Australian end. There was a presentation ceremony of medals at the NZ High Commission which I was invited to and you can imagine how the families were. This dark family secret was finally buried. Whether you agree with the subject of a pardon or not is another matter but the 90 year old nephew of one of the soldiers was, let’s say, very appreciative.

Thank you Steve Fuller, this is great on Cleaver. The medal came to me via Perth in WA. I haven't been able to establish if he moved out there. Can you please contact me by email?

To Mick, yes this is an issue. When I contact a family I'm usually able to establish who is the nearest descendent. That is through the family knowing the service number or some such evidence. If the case is that there are several descendants who have an equal claim than I let the family decide who is the most appropriate to receive the medal. This has only happened on a few occasions. For example if I put an ad in a paper and one family member sees it they tend to contact other members and decide who rings me. I've recently returned the WWI medals to a direct descendant of a person from the Australian First Fleet. Historically this is quite significant for us. The family name is very well known in this country and several branches contacted me. By mutual agreement they decided who the medals should go to. I suppose that is one benefit of having a reasonable small and historically young population.

I do have some medals to single children who died aged 18 so no descendants. I’m now searching for siblings of the parents. I’ve found several family connections like this so I’ll keep chipping away.

I hope this is sufficient answers for the questions that have been raised. I will happily answer any more. I do appreciate the interaction I’m having, the camaraderie of this forum and the assistance I’ve been provided.

For those who have asked off site, I'm the Chief of Staff of the Australian Army's Recruit Training Centre located at Kapooka NSW.

Yours in service,

Glyn

[Stephen Nulty]

He's too modest

http://www.rarnsw.org.au/pages/news1.htm

[rap1943]

Hello Glyn

I really admire your work.

I'm looking for advice on the best way to start looking for a WW1 trio. They were issued to my wife's grandfather James Francis Dundon 16027 Dental Corps.

I look forward to your advice.

Cheers

Bob

[Jim Strawbridge]

Hello Glyn

I really admire your work.

I'm looking for advice on the best way to start looking for a WW1 trio. They were issued to my wife's grandfather James Francis Dundon 16027 Dental Corps.

I look forward to your advice.

Cheers

Bob

Bob, I think that you have missed the point of the thread. Bob has medals and he is trying to return them to the family not the other way around. His expertise is not in finding medals but in finding people.

[Glyn Llanwarne]

Hello Bob and thank you for your post.

Jim is correct. My method is to get the medal and then find the vet/family. The other way around is very difficult, I've only been successful in doing this once. I'm contacted by many people with requests similar to yours. All I can offer is to add these details to my research notes and if I ever come across these medals I'll be in contact with you.

Could you please send me an email so that I have your details.

I think that is about all the assistance I can offer at this point in time.

Yours in service,

Glyn

[rap1943]

Jim

Didn't miss the point, its fairly obvious. However, as Glyn seems to have a pretty good grasp of the subject, and I don't, it seemed that he would be a good person to ask for advice with my problem.

Glyn

Thanks for you offer, I will send a PM.

Cheers

Bob

[Glyn Llanwarne]

Hello again everyone,

From the original list I posted on 27 Aug 06 I can now cut the name Goodall. I've located the family and medal number 202 is now on the way home. This chap was killed at Glencorse Woods on the Menin Rd on 20 Sep 17. This medal will be back with the family in time for the 89th anniversary of his death.

I've also received several more medals over the past few weeks so it is almost time to do a complete update.

Yours in service,

Glyn

[Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson]

Hello again everyone,

From the original list I posted on 27 Aug 06 I can now cut the name Goodall. I've located the family and medal number 202 is now on the way home. This chap was killed at Glencorse Woods on the Menin Rd on 20 Sep 17. This medal will be back with the family in time for the 89th anniversary of his death.

I've also received several more medals over the past few weeks so it is almost time to do a complete update.

Yours in service,

Glyn

Glyn.

Fantastic news Glyn.The family must be very happy indeed.

Regards,

Roland.

[Teamski]

This is a really interesting thread. I think you are doing a great job Glyn!

I am a collector, and I display my collection at airshows and collector's days here at Dover AFB in the USA (I'm a MSgt in the USAF). I invariably get asked why families would give up medals of relatives. I give them the same answers that have already been discussed here. It shocks a lot of people. It's just the way things go, I guess. There are 2 instances where I have met the family members directly:

1. A couple years ago, I got a WWII DFC group to a Canadian bomb aimer from 106 Sqdn. In my never-ending search for information, I was actually able to contact the recipiant's brother, who is 88! His brother sold the group to a collector in 1983 after he passed away (as a widower without children), even though he, himself had children. I asked him why he sold it, and he said that he knew his children would have no interest in the group whatsoever, and he consciously sold them to a collector to make sure they stayed together along with the photo that was with them. I don't know about the logic, but they are all still together. He didn't seem to want them back!

2. When Displaying my collection one year, an older lady came up to me saying that her friend was a WAC in WWII, and she wanted to sell off her stuff. I gave her my number, and a week later she called. Her friend just passed away the day before, and she still had her group. I visited her and purchased an incredibley complete collection. Once again, her friend had no family to pass on her history. So, now I display it each year.

As my dad (a gun collector) told me a long time ago, I like to think we collectors are custodians that ensure history is preserved for future generations.

I applaud your efforts Glyn, in returning medals to families who will appreciate them. Good luck!!

[Glyn Llanwarne]

Hello Teamski,

Thank you for your kind words and sharing your thoughts and photo with me.

I was at Dover AFB in May 04. We only had one day there and it was part of a tour of several bases. Sorry it has taken a while to get back to you, I've been away on ADF business, yet again.

Yours in service,

Glyn

[kirsten_millinson@hotmail.com]

I consider myself a young thing to I have recently found that amongst all my relatives who were agricultural labourers there were two in the first world war one was killed in action in Aug 1915 and the other 10/10/1918 I would love to find out what happened to their medals. as they were both killed would their medals have been given to the family or would they have not been given out I have the little medal role cards is their away of telling idf the medals were issued?

best wishes

Kirsten

[Teamski]

I consider myself a young thing to I have recently found that amongst all my relatives who were agricultural labourers there were two in the first world war one was killed in action in Aug 1915 and the other 10/10/1918 I would love to find out what happened to their medals. as they were both killed would their medals have been given to the family or would they have not been given out I have the little medal role cards is their away of telling idf the medals were issued?

best wishes

Kirsten

Their medals would of been sent to the next of kin, if known. The memorial plaque would of been sent seperately to the family of the member, so it is common to have them get lost or seperated. Unfortunately, many medals and plaques were either sold off or simply thrown away due to disinterest on part of the family. You can start searching by posting to forums like this and keep your eyes open on E-Bay. You just never know. Do you know which regiments they were with? If you need a look-up, I can help as I have the Soldiers Died CD that would help ID which unit they were with and their regimental number. Let me know.

-Ski

[Glyn Llanwarne]

Hello everyone,

I thought it was about time I posted an update of my current medal list. There are several new names on it and I hope that any family member searching a name will come across this list.

While this is really off the WWI topic I have recently received an Imperial Service Medal awarded in 1971 to a Mrs Evelyn Bessie Spradbery. I've established she died in Kendal, Westmoreland, UK, in 1991. I've written a letter of the local paper but I don't think it has been published. Does any one in the UK have any hints?

Anyway, my latest list is below and my total for returned medals is now 203.

Yours in service,

Glyn

Boxer Rebellion

AB E O’Connell NSW Naval Contingent

World War 1

3186 PTE George William Adams 29th Bn AIF

4971 SGT Dalgairns Outram Anderson 35th Bn AIF

3678 CPL Arthur Fredrick Atkins 15th Bn AIF

2530 PTE Matthew Alexander Baxter 14th Bn AIF

1856 PTE James Barrignton-Kersland Camel Corps AIF (WWII V1164)

129765 PTE F Baldwin (British)

2002 LCPL A S Bridge 1st Light Horse Regt (WWII Q64212)

23 SGT Alfred Keith Button 2 Mobile Vet Section AIF

613 PTE Samuel Caldwell 41st Bn AIF

4524 W Cleaver (British)

2136 PTE Frank Hedley Gordon Coomber 28th Bn AIF

3265 SPR F Conners

2139 PTE E Crossland 47th Bn AIF

21904 PTE S Cryer (British)

395 PTE Cecil Harold Davis 3rd LH

M2-1751203 PTE B Davis ASC (British)

25623 DVR A Dixon 2 DAC AIF

5763 PTE Leo Campbell Dempsey

6736 PTE George Dempsey

14420 PTE R Dudgeon (British)

2646 PTE William Vincent Flanagan 47th Bn AIF

4789 PTE James Ford 15th Battalion

4061 PTE Andrew James Griffin 4th Bn AIF

3099 PTE George Grace 20th Bn AIF

2219 Samuel Clifton Warren Greenhill 16th Bn AIF

11204 SGT John Gordan Harris 3rd Mot Tpt Coy AIF

343 PTE William Francis Holloway 26th Bn AIF

607 LCPL Sydney Hopkins 15th Bn AIF

803 WO2 George Lewis Horne 26th Bn AIF

509 CPL Roman Ilupmaggi 2nd Sig Tp/ 2nd LH Bde – 4th Bn

7107 PTE William Partick Ivory 1sth Bn AIF

1234 PTE Robert Jamieson Jordon 22nd Bn AIF

4912 PTE G Kay 53rd Bn AIF

32526 DVR Richard George Maiden AFA, AIF

LT Kenneth Alexander MacLeod 13th Bn AIF

3487 PTE J Marlow 15th Bn AIF

2894 PTE Theodore John McCarthy 11th Bn AIF

3378 PTE Harry Ernest Miller 15th Bn AIF 39th Bn AIF

2596 PTE Ernest Mulholland 39th Bn AIF

3625 PTE J A Nelson 2nd Bn AIF

D Ogilvie Royal Navy

23/552 RFLM D Pattrick NZEM

M1-08623 PTE C.C. Pearson A.S.C. (British)

3808 PTE John Peel 1st Bn AIF

3452 PTE Robert Peel 1st Bn AIF

7535 PTE William Pearce 3rd Bn AIF

1511 PTE Reginald James Robertson 24th Bn

6578 CPL Fredrick James Shawman 16th Bn AIF

860 PTE Stanley Seaton Scott 6th Bn AIF

2707 Aurther Chaloner Smith 16th Bn AIF

3266 SGT Edward Snell 28th Bn AIF

50227 PTE E. Snell KRRC (British)

740 Dvr F Sutherland Royal Engineers (British)

Charles H Taylor MN

1195 SPR James Daniel Waddington 3rd Tunnel Coy AIF

3533 PTE James Henry Douglas Wigginton 1st Bn

3504 PTE William George Wright 6th Bn AIF

Z/4286 AB Andrew Whyte Watson RN (WWII NX131477)

World War II

33055 George Henry Abbott

QX17878 Phillip Bass

SX28928 Leslie James Benton

VX11953 Ernest Reginald Barton

NX53604 Roy Cecil Bolton

136273 Wallace Reginald Campbell

N273320 Henry Joseph Chivers

NX139442 Cecil Albert Donnelly

NX140008 Leonard Edward Foster

NX114985 Cyril Agustine Gersback

29616 Thomas George Hardwick

QX22279 Robert Antony Hammond

Q39556 Hugh Ferguson Jones

NX206804 Paul Lennox Lawther

90721 Iris May Langley

14055 Henry Frederick Lee RAN MID

NX131474 Thomas Michael Lahiff

C.F.R. MacGregor MN

QX49183 Duncan Thomas McGregor

NX24236 Rueben Thomas Madden

QX10897 Robert James McKnight

VX57246 Leo Alphonsus Morrissy

QX11131 John James Morrison

31454 A Murrish (British?)

QX13129 Desmond James Nunan

VX11338 James Arthur O’Donohue

NX109001 Peter O’Halloran

WX13051 Norman Henry Parker

VX78605 Fredrick Charles Pike

QX18765 William Quinn

NX84054 Jack Nelson Rogers

QX 15327 Stewart Raymond Sergent

VX74647 Robert John Slyth

QX16468 Terence Edward Downing Webster

W28643 PTE Gilbert Young

Vietnam War

215236 PTE R J Jackson 1 and 2 RAR

5716530 J.A. Lawson 17 Construction Sqn

A58012 J Potter RAAF

Miscellaneous

Mrs Evelyn Bessie Spradbery

[campaign]

Hi to all contributors of this thread - just caught up with it after a few months absence offline.

I have been researching my family history and searching, in vain, for medals info. Whenever I see a name that might possibly be a link to the soldier relatove that I cannot trace I'm there....searching through the London Gazette, reading the War Graves site, wherever I think there is a chance of tracing my relative, a WW1 soldier, a rifleman for sure, regiment unknown and in the hope that eventually I can trace the medals.! A trio probably as I understand that he died in France/Flanders. Having also very recently received a Defence Medal from the Ministry of Defence, officially issued after WW2 for my late father, to me !!!! This was a very moving experience and I was sad and excited at the same time, sorry that I claimed the medal that he apparenyty did not want and pleased to hold it for the family - and yes - I did have to prove my link to the M.O.D. and I did a family tree with copy birth certs and needed a letter from my elderly mother (residing in Australia) to pass authority to me as she is 'next in line' to have it issued. I read these stories of folks not keeping their medals and think of my grandfather; apparently sold his medals after serving in R.N. on HMS Cornwallis and Vengeance, basiccally due to the struggle of living in London after WW1, yet went on to serve in the Police force during WW2 also. Most of our family are unaware of the contributions made and only now showing an interest, when presented to them in real terms. I have sat at this PC and cried buckets at the stories to be found and my young son is now...guess what... doing WW2 at Primary School, asking for info on his family history and what, what, what. Thanks all for some brilliant contributions and if you have any medals for Thomas or Porter - let me know !!!!! Lyn

[Glyn Llanwarne]

Hello every one,

For a month or so now I've been working on my own web site. It is live and can be viewed, although not 100% finished.

If nothing else you will see what I look like.

Glyn

http://www.lostmedalsaustralia.com/index.htm

[Max]

Good on you Glyn...more power to your elbow.

Andy

[yellow]

This is indeed a noble cause, but why just return medals why not return identity disks to the families? After all they have names on them too, they were worn in combat and thus hold more sigificance than a medal. The proof of this is the American Vietnam Veterans who burst into tears upon having their missing tags returned to them.

Even as a collector myself I dont understand what this big fuss about medals is. I dont agree that a medal is a total embodiment of a man or womens service in the armed forces. It is just metal and by putting medals on a pinacle what your in effect doing is taking away from the importance of the man.

I too would love to return medals sadly the ones I would like to return were to men who were the last of a line. Returning to their rightful owners is thus impossible unless I decided to bury them.

Steve.

[John_Hartley]

If nothing else you will see what I look like.

AAARRRGGGHHHHH

[Glyn Llanwarne]

This is indeed a noble cause, but why just return medals why not return identity disks to the families?

Hello Steve and thank you for the feed back. To answer your specific question I have returned ID disks (four in total) and have three more currently being researched.

Yours in service,

Glyn

[womo]

Hi Glyn,

Ive seen your site and think what your'e doing is truly amazing. I wish you all the best for the future.

It seems sad though that over here in Blighty, that a lot more people seem more interested in the monetry value of what I see as priceless family heirlooms.

Wishing you every success,

with regards, Womo

[susanhemmings]

Thank you for the link Glyn.

The site is a credit to you as is the work you do.

Hats off to you.

and wishing you success too.

Susan.

[Auimfo]

At least I'd met him in person so the photo wasn't as great a shock!

Congrats on the website Glyn.

Cheers,

Tim L.