ian turner Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Looks like he joined the 11th Battalion KRRC in April 1918. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Looks like: Regimental number 44403 or 44483 on top of form. Transferred to 11th Kings Royal Rifle Corps (KRRC) on 1-4-1918 Joined 11th Battalion KRRC at Havre on 4-4-1918 Pay rise on 10-4-1918 Admitted to "hospital" - 23-10-1918 Admitted to 60th Field Ambulance with P.U.O (Pyrexia of Unknown Origin, a fever of unknown origin...) - 23-10-1918 {60th Field Ambulance were one of the RAMC units attached to 20th Division, of which the 11th KRRC were part} http://www.1914-1918.net/20div.htm Admitted to No 12 Stationary Hospital {behind the lines at St Pol.} - 23-10-1918 Rejoined unit - 1-11-1918 {Bearing in mind the brevity of his illness this could have been a bout of "trench-fever"} Admitted to No. 18 CCS (Casualty Clearing Station) B????? face - 12-2-1919 {18 CCS was a Doullens at this point} Back to Duty - 18-2-1919 Retained with "H" Corps concentration camp for purpose of demobilisation - 1-2-1919 Transferred to 16th KRRC - 21-4-1919 Transferred to 2/16th (County of London) Battalion TF (Queen's Westminster Rifles) {2nd Line battalion of Queens Westminster Rifles} and given number 568205 - 21-4-1919 {2/16th QWR were part of 30th Division at that point} Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Nicely narrowed for the RGJ Museum. An officer of 11th KRRC, killed between April 1918 and the end of the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Looking at the form above it does not mention the ASC between his joining the KRRC and his Demob. Medal card of Drayton, George J Corps Regiment No Rank King's Royal Rifle Corps 44403 Private Army Service Corps EMT/65541 Private http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documen...p;resultcount=2 One wonders where the A.S.C. service fell? Was it post war, and included on his MIC anyway? Possibly so since he was later commissioned in the R.A.S.C. His Training Reserve Battalion service would have been in the UK prior to his embarkation overseas and therefore not included on his Medal Card. Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annestormont Posted 2 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Really appreciate the transcription, thank you. Steve what does A.S.C stand for? and MIC? He enlisted in September 1917 and I realise now he was just 17, not 16 (14,8,1900) the page previous to the one I have posted says he was posted to the 20th Training Reserve Battalion 23.10.17 Posted to 51st (Grad.)Bn KRRC on 16.1.18. The posted page continues on from this. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Nicely narrowed for the RGJ Museum. An officer of 11th KRRC, killed between April 1918 and the end of the war. From The Long, Long Trail (re 20th Div): The Division was withdrawn after the heavy fighting of the Somme battles, moving on 20th April 1918 to an area south west of Amiens. During the summer months it received many new drafts of men, and from October 1918 it took part in the general advance that resulted in victory. ++ Maybe that narrows it down from say 4 April (his joining the Bn) and until 20 April; or October until 23rd of that month when admitted to hopsital (? 'flu). Still a bit of a needle and haystack job though! Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 A.S.C. = Army Service Corps, which I believe became the Royal Army Service Corps very soon after the War. MIC = Medal Index Card. (We always abbreviate that one, and end up explaining!) These are the cards used by the Army to help in getting medals engraved correctly. These form an "old fashioned" card index (a vast one) to the Medal Roll books which are still held at the National Archives at Kew (though it is doubtful those will give you any more information than you already have). The previous post that says "Medal Card of ..." is an example of what you can see on the online index of the Card Index (an index of an index, confusing...) The Medal Cards can give you extra information without referring to the Medal Rolls and can be downloaded for £3.50 at the National Archives website (the link I posted). Having said all that it is possible that this card will to be a bog-standard "pair" MIC stating Victory Medal and British War Medal and no extra information, though it may have his date of Commission mentioned if it was before the cards were produced. One never knows until one looks, though my feeling is that this card may not add much... The Training Reserve Battalions were large battalions to which conscripts were sent for general training before being sent onto specific Regimental units, in his case via the 51st (Graduated) Battalion K.R.R.C. before going overseas. At least the facts backed up what I had surmised! Steve. P.S. I'm slightly envious of the fine example of a service record you have got! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Ian From what you say it could be narrowed down to three weeks, give or take a day. If they didn't go into action until October: "from October 1918 it took part in the general advance that resulted in victory" and if the soldier went sick on 23rd October..... Also, you can eliminate Captains and above from any list. Lastly, even if the RGJ Museum does not have a pic of this man you can obtain a list of "possible suspects" from the War Diary, because officers killed should be named. Then it might be possible to find an obit, with photo, in local papers or even get a photo from his school or family, and so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Beppo, Yes, 4-20 April 1918 Whenever it commenced action in October -23 Oct 1918. Almost there, eh? Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Maybe that narrows it down from say 4 April (his joining the Bn) and until 20 April; or October until 23rd of that month when admitted to hopsital (? 'flu). Still a bit of a needle and haystack job though! 4th-20th April 1918 throws up 7 names in 'Officer's Died' of whom one is a Captain. Of the Lt's, one died in German hands, one 'died', three died of wounds. The only KIA is 2 Lt Frederick Bernard Holborow of the 16th Battalion. The DOW are: Hubert Arthur Cram, Bernard Hodges and Harold Joseph Shaw. However, none of the above are 11 KRRC. Cram is the only for whom the battalion is not shown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff501 Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Only three 2/Lts died in this period. All with additional info, one with MC, but seems to be on a secondary unit. The only other 2/Lt deaths were back in March (4 died). Total 11th casualties for this period: (all from CWGC) month/ total/officers Mar 75 (4 2/Lt., 3 Cpts., 1 Lt.Col) Apr 21 May 7 Jun 8 Jul 9 Aug 8 (1 2/Lt.) Sep 6 Oct 11 (1 2/Lt.) Nov 5 (1 2/Lt.) Name: BRANKER Initials: W R Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Second Lieutenant Regiment: King's Royal Rifle Corps Unit Text: attd. 11th Bn. Secondary Regiment: Sherwood Foresters (Notts and Derby Regiment) Secondary Unit Text: attd. 11th Bn. Age: 33 Date of Death: 05/10/1918 Awards: MC Additional Information: Son of James and Mary Branker, of Paisley; husband of Annie C. Hunter Branker, of 14, Argyll St., Paisley, Renfrewshire. Casuality Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: I. C. 7. Cemetery: PROSPECT HILL CEMETERY, GOUY Name: JOHNSTON, BENJAMIN Initials: B Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Second Lieutenant Regiment: King's Royal Rifle Corps Unit Text: 11th Bn. Age: 31 Date of Death: 03/11/1918 Additional Information: Husband of Annie Johnston, of 27, Campie Gardens, Musselburgh. Casuality Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: II. B. 1. Cemetery: POZNAN OLD GARRISON CEMETERY Name: MAGGS, ERIC WILLIAM BRISTOWE Initials: E W B Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Second Lieutenant Regiment: King's Royal Rifle Corps Unit Text: 11th Bn. Age: 23 Date of Death: 20/08/1918 Additional Information: Son of William Adolphus Maggs and Alice Maude Maggs, of Riversford, Northam, North Devon. Native of London. Casuality Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: V. E. 6. Cemetery: SUCRERIE CEMETERY, ABLAIN-ST. NAZAIRE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 The only11 KRRC candiadate from 'Officers Died' is 2 Lt. Eric William Bristowe Maggs, KIA, 20/08/18 as named above. There's nothing in the Official History about the battalion, brigade or division for that day, so I'm out of ideas. (Incidentally, Officers Died states Johnston as having died 31/11/1918 in German hands. Some discrepancy there.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Cram is shown as 16th Bn on CWGC. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 On the assumption that the officer was killed in front of your grandad, and from the above input on officers died, I would start with Branker. Johnston is too late, and Maggs' death in August appears to have been when the Div was out of the line. However a good look at the Bn war diary will be necessary. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Sorry - it's not Branker. He was attached to the 11th Sherwood Foresters and was killed in battle near Prospect Hill where he is buried. He also gets mentioned in the battalion history. Who are we left with?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff501 Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 The only11 KRRC candiadate from 'Officers Died' is 2 Lt. Eric William Bristowe Maggs, KIA, 20/08/18 as named above. Looks about the right age too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Geoff Aged 23. Do we know what the 11th KRRC were doing in August 1918? The Long Long Trail infers that the division was re-drafting until October. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff501 Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Do we know what the 11th KRRC were doing in August 1918? The Long Long Trail infers that the division was re-drafting until October. Fairly quiet month, until near the end. Maggs' death is a bit isolated. Anyone in North Devon? Maggs' photo is sure to be in the local papers. 06/08 Gooderson AW (dow) 20/08 Maggs EWB 24/08 Simms TJ (kia) 27/08 Brann SC (not in SDGW) 28/08 Maidment CJ (dow) Oak SH (kia) Peskett M (kia) 30/08 Andrews WL (kia) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Geoff, Thanks. It does not point to them having gone over the top in August, does it? Perhaps these August victims were casualties whilst in the Bn was in the line. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 And a little bit of colour. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff501 Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 Thanks. It does not point to them having gone over the top in August, does it? Perhaps these August victims were casualties whilst in the Bn was in the line. No does not. The main action, looking at the casualtys seems to be around March-April. However 'going over the top' could be a recce party or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest geoff501 Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 And a little bit of colour. Ian, That's amazing. Bet it would look really good on a high-res version. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Hesketh Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 "He saved my life and lost his. He went in front of me" End of conversation. We've been assuming that this was an attack. Could it have been simpler? For example, the officer simply muscled ahead in a trench and got picked off by a sniper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ian turner Posted 2 August , 2006 Share Posted 2 August , 2006 We are faced with quite a few vague leads on this one. Yes, it may indeed not have been a question of going over the top. Also he may not have been 11th Bn but from another, and temporarily attached to the 11th. It will take a bit of trawling and or quick luck to identify him. Ian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
annestormont Posted 2 August , 2006 Author Share Posted 2 August , 2006 And a little bit of colour. Ian Ian what a transformation! Wish I could make the photo I have look like that., Well, I have sent off to the Royal Green Jackets - mentioned EWB Maggs just incase it helps. Thank you everyone. Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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