Strange Occurrences on the Western Front

[ianw]

Shawn (and others) - sorry if my posting was a bit abrupt - no offence meant. As the message has now been received, I have deleted my posting. Hopefully this one can follow soon.

Ian

[Guest KevinEndon]

Spot the face in the photo from Pozieres cemetery

If you missed it, it is bottom centre.

It made us smile when we saw it.

K

[NeilEvans]

Ah i can see that

[Guest Mick Klauer]

A few "odd" shots from earlier this year...

(centre of pic)

[Guest Mick Klauer]

a couple of "mist" shots. There were 9 totally clear shots between these two before anyone suggests something on the lens...

...

[chrissielew]

Wow what super spooky pics! I just love this thread. Thanks Rodge for starting it and to all you contributors for keeping it going. I have been fascinated with every one of the experiences retold on here.

Re my contribution....Scottie thanks to you for your kind words about Myra. Yes she was a character. Had a quaint way of calling a spade a spade. Yet the crematorium was packed with people at her funeral and I guess that's quite unusual for a 92 year old. Shawn thanks for your kind words too and sorry about the hot water you innocently got into. Glad you all kissed and made up in the end.

Mick (auchonvillerssomme) may I ask where your quote is from please? I guessed it must be from a poem but have searched and failed to find it. If it is an extract I would love to read the rest.

Chrissie

Honouring Rifleman Arthur William Armitage, 18th Battalion KRRC who was killed an action 15.09.1916 in the battle for Flers/Courcelette

[KevinBattle]

Kevin W4

The cemetery you're looking for is London Cemetery & Extension - Longueval - right opposite High Wood.

Moston, much appreciate your kind information. i confess I had forgotten which cemetery it was and could not locate the surname with what I incorrectly remembered. I get no feeling of fear, simply either the "hush" of utter peace or "awareness" of something generally benevolent, except just on that road by High Wood... is it just unknown dead striving to be found???

[Ozzie]

Some have mentioned some places that we visited. But I, (me who took to the woods and other places) found only quietness and dove's calls, but the mist over only the 4 statues on a summer's day, at Langemark, still has me intrigued.

Anyone game to offer an explanation?

Kim

[Deerhunter]

I'm new to the Forum, but have had a little time recently to add something.

I have taken my son and daughter to France and Flanders on several occasions in the last couple of years and have, as they have grown older, increased the historical content of our trips. I have told them of my Grandfather and Great Uncle, who served for the duration, and was KIA and decorated, respectively, and also had taken them to many of the same places that I was shown on the Western Front, at a similar age. This, however, may be of interest. In Aug 07, we were in Ypres with my wife, staying at the Cherry Blossom in Vlamertinghe. At approximately 1900 I dropped my wife off at the B&B, as she wanted to rest up, and then I continued, hoping to make best use of the evening, to take a drive with the kids and to do a recce for a new restaurant.

Due to the fact that my wife and kids do not have the interest that I have, I deliberately had not concentrated on visits to cemeteries on that occasion, but that evening passed Bedford House Cemetery with the kids in tow (they are aged 14 and 12), so decided to pop in - just for something to do. I do not habitually check the Cemetery Register, but did so on that occasion, and (as you do) looked up my own surname. I found a match, a Pte in the South Lancs Regt, who was KIA during Second Ypres. His initial was a "P", and he was born in Widnes (where my Grandfather's family came from). I casually noted to my son (whose name begins with a "P") that this man was probably a relative, as our surname is unusual, and that his first name is a "family name".

We returned to the UK a few days later, and upon arrival, we looked on the CWGC site, to discover that my son's (and my father's) first name "Peter" was the same as this man. Further investigations revealed that he was, indeed, a relative; a cousin of my grandfather.

Our next visit was in October 07. We took over a rosebush to plant (an English (Lancashire) Red Rose) in front of the headstone. We have visited every time we have been in France and Flanders since, most recently this April.

In April we arrived at Bedford House to pay our respects and to "say hello" (and you will surely know what I mean by this). It was early evening and the sun had just set. My son, daughter and I walked to the grave of 10717 Pte Peter Dagnall S. Lancs Regt (look him up if you visit, please), checked on the rosebush, which was strong and in bloom, paid our respects and left. I had no incredible experiences and felt at peace, amongst friends and entirely welcome, as it were. Back in the car my son, who had been quiet up until that point, reluctantly and gradually described how, he had the intense presence, to his left, of a person joining us in line once we got to the steps past the moat, walking in parallel to us as we walked to the grave side and accompanying us until we left. He is a level-headed young man, and not one to make up stories; we had not spoken of any supernatural element to all this.

Just thought this may be of interest, and also the following post on the Army Rumour Service website on a similar topic. I post under the same user name, and after 23 years in the British Army, and having served in Bosnia and Kosovo on very many occasions, and most recently in Iraq, do not consider myself to unduly sensitive or fragile. For your interest, and of a more recent war:

http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewto.../start=240.html

Best wishes for the New Year.

DH

[Tinhat47]

This thread is amazing.

[haworthnick]

Can I add my twopenneth to the discussion.

Nothing strange has happened to me, but while on the Ledger Walking the Somme in 2007 we were sat at the dragon memorial as Vic Puik told us about a mate of his, who had left something at the memorial and went back to retrieve it but then ran all the way back to Flat Iron Copse Cemetery scared witless from the sensation of lots of eyes watching him from Mametz Wood.

My only sensation about Mametz was a feeling to how Fangorn Forest is described in Lord of the Rings "something vast and brooding". I did feel a certain amoutn of something while at High Wood but I think ths was because I was looking through the gate and the bagage I had brought with me after reading "Hell at High Wood". I am not disputing what other folk have said, it's just how I've analysed my own feelings after the event.

On returning from the same trip we met my girlfriend and a couple of mates in the pub straight off the coach and I proudly produced the two shrapnell balls I had found out there but both my friends were very uncomfortable about handling these as they both said that the got a "bad energy" from them. These 2 people are not that interested in WW1 but perhaps they are more sensitive than me to these things.

If anyone has access to the book "True World War 1 Stories" I recommnend the section "Trenches at Vimy Ridge" by HArold Saunders, I think this offers a slightly different perspective on this whole subject.

Nick

[MACRAE]

I work with the dead every day and have had some odd things happen but when relitives come to pay there respects to there loved ones its the children who can come out with the oddest things. like

"A young boy of 5 was asked if he had a good sleep the night before, the young man said yes but Thomas woke me up during the night ironing his uniform and told me I was the man of the house now and had to help you mum. This was in July 91 aprox 4 Months after his older brother Pte Thomas Haggerty Royal Scots was killed in action in Iraq" The hairs stood up on the back of my neck when my sister told this story that she had told no one for 3 months.

Dan

" reluctantly and gradually described how, he had the intense presence, to his left, of a person joining us in line once we got to the steps past the moat, walking in parallel to us as we walked to the grave side and accompanying us until we left. He is a level-headed young man, and not one to make up stories; we had not spoken of any supernatural element to all this. "

[Nick Thornicroft]

I recently found this example of contemporary 'strangeness' within William Orpen's 'An Onlooker In France 1917-1919', which I hope will be of interest to this thread:

"I remember that summer a strange thing happened. One day I found, and started painting, the remains of a Britisher and a Boche - just skulls, bones, garments - up by the trenches at Thiepval. I was all alone. When I had been working about a couple of hours I felt strange. I cannot say even now what I felt. Afraid? Of what? The sun shone fiercely. There was not a breath of air. Perhaps it was that - a touch of the sun. So I stopped painting and went and sat on the trunk of a blown-up tree close by, when suddenly I was thrown on the back of my head on the ground. My heavy easel was upset, and one of the skulls went through the canvas. I got up and thought a lot, but came to the conclusion I had better just go on working, which I did, and nothing further strange happened.

That night I happened to meet Joffroy, and told him about these skulls, and how peculiar one was, as it had a division in the frontal bone (the Britisher's). He said he would like to go and make a study of it; so I brought him out the next morning to the place, I myself working that day in Thiepval Wood, about half a mile further up the hill. I left him, saying I would come back and bring him lunch from the car, as it was difficult for him to get about. When I got back I found him lying down, not very near the place, saying he felt very ill and he thought it was the smell "from those remains". He had done no work, and refused even to try to eat till we got a long way from those skulls. I explained to him that there was no smell, and he said, "but didn't you see one has an eye still?" But I knew that all four eyes had withered away months before. There must have been something strange about that place'

[ianw]

scared witless from the sensation of lots of eyes watching him from Mametz Wood.

Yet another "vote" for Mametz Wood as most scariest! It features several times in this thread.

The Orpen quote is also most interesting. I am not sure I would be hanging around in places which feature low-flying skulls as a hazard!

[rachelwilsdon]

Ok for a start I love this thread even though it keeps giving me the willies.

My first story goes back to 1999, when I went on a school trip, we had not learnt about the war yet, but after going round several monuments, and site I was gettinga little tired until we got to the ploegsteert rememoiral to the missing, and once inside I was looking at the names, and I got a feeling of what can only be thought of as "butterflyes", I never thought of it till when back home and I was talking to my grandparents, (this same convosation brings about stroy 2) and my nan told me of my great uncle vic who died in ww1, when I looked him up, I found that he was one of the "missing" and his name was on the ploegsteert memoiral strange, it get weirder, when I went back last year, we found his name on the memoiral, and i found myself standing at the same spot where I got these feelings, and low and behold there was uncle vic's name.

Story 2: My Grandad told me, that uncle vic's cousin was also in the buffs, and each day (i believe) a soldier of the buffs goes down to the cathedral and changes the page in the roll of honnor, now when it was this dudes (I dont know his name) turn, he went down and turned over the page, only to find that on the new page, was uncle vic's name.

I hope this helps.

[Private Butler]

Being of a spiritualist nature I think the only thing spooky or unpleasant about such things is the hideous way in which these men died and some of those men, I believe, have restless spirits which is sad when all of us would want them, friend or foe to be resting in peace.

I'm personally very interested in such occurances and find them supernormal, as opposed supernatural, but not anything else. Having seen a medium on a number of occasions I am utterly convinced of life-after-death and that there is no great surprise that the realm of spirit is so busy with death being so near to those on the WF and elsewhere in the GW. No surprise either the presence of such phenomena as the Angel of Mons, for where a great number of people are in trouble there are those in that realm wanting to help.

Just my own belief.

[equusv]

Some have mentioned some places that we visited. But I, (me who took to the woods and other places) found only quietness and dove's calls, but the mist over only the 4 statues on a summer's day, at Langemark, still has me intrigued.

Anyone game to offer an explanation?

Kim

Kim, I'm not averse to supernatural experiences one bit having had several myself in Flanders, Little Bighorn and elsewhere but I think I can offer a possible un-supernatural explanation. Those statues are black and sort of porous if memory serves. Could it be condensation from the moisture on and in them being released by the sun? Any scientists out there with something better?

cheers

Bonfire

[Keith D]

Good topic, which I just discovered and thought I'd throw in my tuppence worth! Two places which have spooked me in the past are in the Ypres area and they are Plug Street and Sanctuary wood. I remember being at Prowse point in the mid 90's, parking the car there and snaking my way down the track into the woods to look for old bunkers (of which there are supposed to be plenty.) I got down past the Austrailian(?) cemetary and to be honest, even thought it was only about 6pm on a summers evening, it just got so creepy that I made a quick exit back to the car, whistling loudly as I went! The other was one morning at the Sanctuary Wood museum. I had the chance to be there on my own, and was pretty much as far toward the back of the wood as I could get and thought I'd get into a trench just to see what it must have looked like to look out of one. I can remember being overcome by a feeling of "You're not supposed to be here" but not in an aggressive way, more a "Please get out" sort of way (If that makes any sense!) which I did! I have been back many times and never had that feeling, but I remember that time very well! So in conclusion, I don't know if there is anything in any of these feelings and experiences, but I would say that when you are in places like that you are more liable to be spooked by the littlest things and blow them out of prportion. Other than these instances, I have to agree with most contributors on this subject in that I always feel an enormous feeling of peace when out and about these areas and cemetaries.

[ildebrando74]

Hello to everybody. I'm really interested about this argument and I want to add my personal experiences from italian front and western front.

I'm a psychologist and i made a lot of reflections about strange feelings that me and my friends had during our trip on the front line. Personally i felt discordant feelings; I travelled front lines since I was a child and when I grew up I walked in trenches alone.

In some places like Pasubio mountain, where there were a lot of fights, and the mountain is deeply tunnelled I always felt a sense of peace since first time I have been there, even if there is often cold, fog, and snow.

On the other hand I felt a mood of terror during a wonderful trekking near Adamello glacier: it was a sunny, wonderful day and suddenly, me and my friend felt in the same moment a great fear, terrifying feeling, unidentified, like a sort of bad energy around us: we run away so fast and I never back to this place. It was no suggestion, and my friend does not knew anything about the history of this place..

As a Psychologist I studied my feelings and in this case (and another that I'll tell You another time!) I can tell that was not a suggestive kind of thoughts.

I felt this type of odd feeling when I was walking alone near Mort Homme; no ghosts, but a geat fear because I was alone, bad weather, silence, and some trenches in front of me... So I was simply scared, but I set a reliable test.

If odd feelings (or good) are sudden sensations (better if felt by more people) they are genuine,; those sensations are intrusive, really deep in our soul.

I think that places like trench lines are full of energies, someone who have the right "radio", can feel them.

I will wait your comment because I'd like to know the opinions of this forum to make a serious reflections about these phenomena.

I noticed similar experiences even if we are far, and the front were far; strange isn't it?

[Marienkäfer]

This is an interesting story but rather long. One day I was driving home from work in the Somme (I had been in Ham and was feeling fed up). I stopped at the Citadel and began to write down inscriptions. It was about 6pm or later. I then saw a big 4x4 arrive and it was a group of Canadians. They were looking for a particular grave in Bray sur Somme and had been to every possible cemetery. I was then shown some genuine 1918 letters from the British army and govt stating that the officer in question had been buried at Bronfay Farm in August 1918. He was a British man with the Queen Victoria's Rifles. The Canadians assured me that there was no grave to him at Bronfay Farm.

To cut a long story short I went home and did a fair bit of searching. I found that the officer was commemorated on the Vis-en -Artois memorial, but the documents made it very clear he was at Bronfay Farm. I also made note of the grave of soldier A, same regt QVR and he died the day after the officer in question. I posted all the info to Canada and was eventually telephoned by the granddaughter of the officer, who is a British citizen married to a Canadian. I told her to contact the CWGC to get the record set straight.

However, she firstly came to France to try to understand what was going on. I met her in Albert and took her to Bronfay farm, telling her that it was interesting to note that a comrade of her grandfather's (soldier A) was killed the day after her grandfather and possibly lay near him. Just think, I said to her in the cemetery .. if you could learn more about soldier A, you might learn more about your grandfather. Well... I then checked the visitor's book and would you believe it... the last visitors were soldier A's grandson and his partner from Canada - a place very close to where this British lady lived in fact. What an amazing coincidence.

They made contact with soldier A's family and had lots of meetings and did research together. Soldier A's grandson had a great deal of knowledge about the regt diaries etc...

The officer's granddaughter also drove up to Vis-en -Artois with her Canadian husband to see the name of her grandfather engraved on its surface. Suffice it to say that both she and her Canadian husband have unusual names... well there on the memorial was her grandfather's name and below it the next soldier had her husband's name (I mean surnames not christian names) so coincidence number 2.

Since then we have held a regimental remembrance service at Bronfay Farm and the officer now has a headstone. Soldier A's family were also present. I have some new Canadian friends and it was a truly amazing experience for us all.

[Marienkäfer]

Heres one for you then, i visited my grandfathers grave early one morning, there was a very heavy dew, and no one else had visited the cemetary as there were no footprints, i took this photo and left, when i loaded it onto my pc, there were two sets of footprints, one set leading directly to my grandfathers grave.

I have been told this story before - were you in Authuille?

[Guest KevinEndon]

Lonsdale cemetery, I was back at Chavasse when Willy came back showing us the photograph. He seemed perplexed at to what had happened and he was totally genuine when he says he has no idea as to how it could have happened.

Kevin

[Just Barbara]

Grandad had popped back for a look as well. Seems reasonable to me.

Barbara.

[equusv]

I am very interested to hear in confidence, from anyone who has modern- day (Post 1918) personal first hand stories of strange sittings or experiences and feelings when they have visited WWI & WWII battlefields, airfields or military bases. I hope to gather and cross reference such stories and articles into a database archive.

Thanks

Rodge D. (The Archivist)

I just heard a great new, to me anyway, anecdotal story about Talbot House from guide, Jacques Rykebosch who has been associated with this house for over 30 years I think. He is quick to point out that he personally has never had a ghostly experience in Talbot House.

He was giving an English couple a tour of the house, I think he said in the mid 90's. They had not been here before. He took them up to the chapel in the attic and was speaking to them at length about the history when it was as though someone threw cold water on his guests. He was concerned that he'd offended them in some way but couldn't think what he might have said to cast a pall over everything. Clearly something had happened. They asked him if they could have privacy for a few minutes so he went downstairs.

Fifteen minutes later they came downstairs and stood in front of him. They said, "While you were talking, a very tall man in uniform standing on the right side of the chapel seemed to be listening and was laughing approvingly as you talked. We both saw him."

Jacques took them into the lounge where there was a WWI photo of Tubby and Chaplain, Neville Talbot. Tubby was said to be 5 feet and a tea bag tall whereas Neville Talbot was about 6'5". They both pointed at Talbot and said, "That's him!"

Bonfire

[willy]

Lonsdale cemetery, I was back at Chavasse when Willy came back showing us the photograph. He seemed perplexed at to what had happened and he was totally genuine when he says he has no idea as to how it could have happened.

NOT correct kevin, firstly i had no idea the footprints were there until i got home and put the picture onto my pc as previously stated in earlier posts, i made no reference to this on my return to chavasse because i did not know then.

I was not nor ever have been perplexed by this event, as i fear nothing, and i firmly believe my grandfather met me at the entrance, so please make sure you get the facts right please.

willy