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Roy Evans

South Staffordshire Regt War Diaries

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GraemeClarke

Hi

Would have been better starting a new thread but nevermind.

If you want the full War Diary (from 1916) it is downloadable here

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/Result?_q=WO%2095%2F1816

His Medal Index Card indicates service in Gallipoli from 21 July 1915 and that he 'died of wounds', ie wounded and died/missing same day

On Tuesday 26 September 1916 his battalion was in action near to Thiepval, clearing the enemy from Midway Line and repelling bombing attacks at Hessian Trench. The following day at 2am and 11am battalion bombers advanced eastwards along the Zollern Trench, which ran from Thiepval village towards Courcelette, pushing the enemy before them.

The War Diary (in part) records,

“27 September 1916 - 2am. Captain Hutchinson reported finding the S.F’s in a very precarious position at point 10 and made the following dispositions. Reinforced Hessian by 2 platoons and set his remaining 2 platoons to consolidate upper part of Midway from 86 to 10 and started bombing from 10 to 92 and 86 to 91. These bombers never obtained the objective owing to lack of bombs although bombing party from 10 to 92 reached 91 but could not maintain their position. A second attempt made at 11am but likewise failed through lack of material but the posts originally put out were held and all hostile attacks driven off.

At 11.50am information was received that the 34th Brigade were in Zollern Trench West. Orders were at once sent for 2 platoons at 86 to effect a junction with the 34th Brigade. This was successfully accomplished. At 1.50pm news reached Battalion H.Q. that the 32nd was to attack points R.21.d.99. and Staff Redoubt to point R.20.d.91. and that the 6th Border Regiment would attack Hessian Trench and that the barrage would start at 3pm. This necessitated the immediate withdrawal of our platoons in Upper Midway which remained in support on the Border right flank and helped to consolidate the position when won together with the platoons already in Hessian.”

Regards,

Graeme

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Guest Trywellis

Hello all, very new to all this, trying to find some information on my great uncle Sydney Richardson

Private 42462 1/6 south staffordshire regiment. I know he died at La Cateau 7th december 1918

in the 41 casualty clearing unit of gastro enteritis, and is buried at the cemetary at La Cateau.

I was wondering about his battalion movements before that. I am hoping to go to france to plant flowers on his grave and see where he fought. Any information would be great, thanks again!

Rob

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Whipika

Would anyone have any info on the 9th South staffs? I read that the diary is 2 x folders think and that a web page maybe made listing the entires?

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GraemeClarke

Morning,

 

Welcome to the Forum,

 

What date are you looking for, the diaries are here  up to 31 October 1917

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353242

 

From 1 November onwards they have not been digitised.

 

Copies are held at the Staffs Museum near Lichfield but I do not know what their current situation is with regard to seeing them. They used to be fine but I think things have changed for the worse.

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

 

 

Edited by GraemeClarke

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Whipika

Hi Graeme

 

Thank you for the reply. 

 

My great Uncle’s details are bellow. He was sent to France with the 9th South Staffs. on 24/8/1915. I would be interested in any info from then really or anything which lists my uncle. Many thanks for your help. 

 

Details

Albert Edward Nicholls

14382

Private then acting corporal

 

Are there any other details which you would need?

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Whipika
12 hours ago, GraemeClarke said:

Morning,

 

Welcome to the Forum,

 

What date are you looking for, the diaries are here  up to 31 October 1917

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353242

 

From 1 November onwards they have not been digitised.

 

Copies are held at the Staffs Museum near Lichfield but I do not know what their current situation is with regard to seeing them. They used to be fine but I think things have changed for the worse.

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

 

 

I take it that the attached screen shot shows him in the 9th South Staffs?

24DC1A93-F1B8-45EC-A03B-48FA62260C0A.jpeg

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GraemeClarke

Hi

 

Cannot help you much more, I'm afraid.

 

At least the one diary will take you up to November 1917, after that they served in Italy.

 

I would suggest you start a new thread in Soldiers and ask about him. Only people interested in SSR will look at this thread.

 

Regards,

 

Graeme

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Guest

Hello

My great Grandfather Lance Corporal Robert Whelan, Reg number 45272 was reported missing 11.4.1918 from France and later reported a POW at Stendal.

I know he was in B Company, but not which Battalion.

Any help with information or advice would be appreciated.

Kind Regards from Australia.

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Guest

Hi, I am trying to find any information on 27953  Private  Austin Hughes  South Staffordshire Regiment 1914-1919 

 

Any info appreciated. 

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Paul Hathaway

Hello

I’m looking for help piecing together information on my grandfather

Private George Hathaway - South Staffs 1/5th - A Company

Service number 201384

I remember my dad telling me that his dad (George) was wounded at Vimy Ridge - shot through the face - but he survived the war, passing away peacefully in 1961 - I just about remember him - I was 4 when he died.

My research so far leads me to believe that he was actually involved in the Battle of Hill 70 - (close to Vimy Ridge) in August 1917 - does anyone have records of where the unit was on August 22 1917 ?

I believe he was in treatment for 9 days and spent time at No. 6 convalescent depot.

Any info/diary entries greatly appreciated!

 

Many thanks

Paul Hathaway

 

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Domenic Pastore Jr.

Good Morning All,  I'm looking into an American Physician was received an M.C. for his services during WW1 with the 7th Battalion, South Staffordshire Regiment.

He was; >>> Dr. Albert Orville RAYMOND, of Brockton, Massachusetts, USA. If anyone would please be so kind as to assist me in determining exactly what he actually did to be decorated, I will be most deeply appreciative. His Military Cross Certificate only states; "For services to the 7th Battalion" ? Although through researching his L.G. Entry, I learned it was the 7th South Staffordshires. If anyone could tell me anything regarding this individual, I would be very interested in whatever information they may have. THANK YOU

 

         Best regards,  Dom Pastore Jr.

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MaxD

Welcome!

 

Just a starter.

 

The war diary for 7 S Staffs records him joining the battalion on 30 September 1918 together with a Canadian officer Capt Dargon.  The diary can

 be downloaded from the National Archives at:

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C14017472

 

No time to run through the pages at the present, you may be able to find something.  He appears to have served with the British forces from Sep 1917 if the appointment to Honorary Lieutenant in Sep 1917 is the same man?  This may suggest the award covers more than the short time he was with 7 S Staffs - I speculate/

 

Could you confirm the Gazette issue number, I haven't been able to find the entry.  

 

Max

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BennettClarke

Hi guys,

 

Trying to learn more about my great grandfather, Albert Clarke, and what he did during the war. 

 

He served with the South Staffs after transferring from the Gren Guards in 1914 as a CSM - although I'm uncertain of which Battalion, and I believe served as the A/RSM for a period. His number was 31042. He was wounded I believe on the 6th July 1916. I'd love to know which Battalion he was with so I can read their war diary. 

 

Many thanks!

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kenf48
51 minutes ago, BennettClarke said:

Hi guys,

 

Trying to learn more about my great grandfather, Albert Clarke, and what he did during the war. 

 

He served with the South Staffs after transferring from the Gren Guards in 1914 as a CSM - although I'm uncertain of which Battalion, and I believe served as the A/RSM for a period. His number was 31042. He was wounded I believe on the 6th July 1916. I'd love to know which Battalion he was with so I can read their war diary. 

 

Many thanks!

Welcome to the forum 

 

The Medal Rolls on Ancestry show he served with the 4th Battalion but that unit did not go on active service overseas until October 1917 so he could not have been wounded in 1916.  A unit was only required to maintain a diary when on active service. 

 

The War Diary of the 4th Battalion from 7 October 1917  WO 95/2244/2

is on Ancestry here if you subscribe

or can currently be downloaded free form TNA if you register

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7353366

It’s in two parts

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354211

 

There is a surviving pension record for Albert on Find my past (and Ancestry) which shows he was wounded 12 April 1918, gunshot wound shoulder and knee during a fierce German attack.  Not much detail in the diary but always worth looking at Brigade war diaries for more context.

 

 A Boer War veteran, enlisting 18.8.1898, his substantive rank was CSM, (WO2) appointed ActingRSM /WO1 on  2/4/1918 unfortunately his Blighty  wound meant it was not made substantive and he remained in the U.K. until discharged 13.9.1919.

He joined the 4th Bn on 9 July 1917 and was promoted to CSM  on embarkation to France on the 8th October.

His initial enlistment was 7 years with the Colours, five on Reserve so was time served in 1914 but re-enlisted on 5 August 1914 and served at home (3rd Bn) until posted to 4th Battalion and overseas as above.

 

Ken

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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BennettClarke

Fascinating stuff Ken, thank you so much for taking the trouble to look into that for me. Already, I've found books that detail what his Battalion was facing during Operation Michael, and in particular during the Battle of Lys where he was wounded.

 

I am indeed a member of Ancestry, and Forces War Records*, and would love to know where you found out his Boer War service, as I have so far been unable to dig up anything that hasn't been related to me by my own relatives (medals and clasps). I've seen correspondence from the Grenadier Guards dated 1922 - under his pension as Sergt. A. Clarke 7592 - that he had 16 years service with the regiment, before transferring to the South Staffs in 1914. Moreover, I'd love to know where you found out the date for his wound, and the rest of his bio! I'm happy trying to do my own digging, but evidently am very amateur at this. 

 

Once again, thank you for your help so far! 

 

*This is where the erroneous reading of the 6th July 1916 comes from - the record for his wound (no details on type of wound - https://www.forces-war-records.co.uk/records/21717376/company-sergeant-major-a-clarke-british-army-south-staffordshire-regiment/ ) gives this date as the date of the order that he may be able to wear a Wound Stripe - I mis-read this initially.

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kenf48
34 minutes ago, BennettClarke said:

Moreover, I'd love to know where you found out the date for his wound, and the rest of his bio! I'm happy trying to do my own digging, but evidently am very amateur at this. 

 

There are just four pages of his service record on FMP indexed as 31042 South Staffs usually there is a corresponding record on Ancestry but I can't find it.

I don't know where you are but most libraries in lockdown have extended use of FMP to home if you have a library card or a free trial.

 

There is a pension ledger entry in Fold 3 on Ancestry but I don't subscribe and I doubt it would tell you much. His wound was described as 'Sev' or severe, the acronym 'GSW' was used for all penetrating wounds and as you may have seen the diary records heavy shelling on their positions.

 

As for South African service which is outside this forum (and my knowledge) it appears he was with the 3rd Bn Grenadier Guards in the 2nd Boer War 1899 and was at the Battle of Belmont; Modder River and Driefontein.  Apparently these were clasps for his South Africa Medal '99'.

 

A brief summary courtesy of Find my Past

Screenshot 2020-05-01 at 11.43.00.png

 

 

Ken

 

 

 

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BennettClarke

Once again Ken - thank you!

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Gonker44

696763452_Screenshot2020-05-28at17_44_38.png.d6eb1e672117698688996126e22d2edc.png696763452_Screenshot2020-05-28at17_44_38.png.d6eb1e672117698688996126e22d2edc.pngI originally sent this PM to Roy Evans but now see he has not controbuted recently, so hope there is another expert here!

on 21st Oct 1916 it is recorded in the 2nd Canadian Tunneling Company War Diary that 4 Officers & 156 ORs reported for duty to assist from 9th South Staffs. They repleced an Australian party of the same size. Is there any record in thier War Diary of *which* Australian unit they replaced? And a supplementary - do the War Diaries show the chain of the command that ordered this detachment to the 2CTC?

 

Many thanks.

 

Gordon - currently researching Great Uncle's service with 19th Bn AIF

Screenshot 2020-05-28 at 17.44.38.png

Screenshot 2020-05-28 at 15.15.27.png

Edited by Gonker44

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MaxD

The orders came from CRE 23 Division in conjunction with the take over of ground and tasks by 23rd Division from 2nd Australian Division.  The S Staffs diary records A and B companies taking over from A and C of 2nd Australian Pioneers and C and D S Staffs taking over from B and D.on 17 and 18 Oct respectively.

 

The division had moved into the 2nd Army area occupied by the 2nd Australian Div on 15/16 Oct.  The change of pioneers part of the whole take over.

 

Is that what is wanted?

 

Max

 

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Gonker44

Thanks Max, it helps in that my great-uncle's unit - 19th Bn AIF was 5Bde and 2Div  & this makes sensre in that they were being withdrawn  replaced by 23rd - but the 2CTC war diaries state regularly that "attached infantry" are present in addition to Pioneers - and as you see the 2CTC refer to 4 Officers and 156 men reporting for duty - so that must have been separate to the companies you have commented upon - as they take over form Australians, not Canadians?

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John(txic)

Are the War Diaries for the 1st Bn after November 1917 available for download from the NA?   Can't find them myself.

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MaxD

Apologies, I didn't read far enough.  After the initial orders to the four companies we have:

 

Entry for 20th October

The men of the Australian Division now attached to the Canadian Mining Company will be relieved by a similar party of men from 9 S Staffs.  Arrangements for relief will be made by CRE 23 Div and OC Canadian Mining Company.

 

There is then an additional order saying that a company and four officers below the rank of captain should be selected for this task and the company selected should be one with the most miners.  An officer should meet OC CTC near Lillegate at 5 pm that evening.

 

The company selected was C Company.  The men were to be divided into 5 parts to work with 5 sections of the CTC.  Subsequent records of the work of the companies is detailed for A, B and D but notes that the whole of C Company is attached to the Canadian Tunnelling Company.

 

John (txic) - http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7352447

 

Max

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John(txic)

Thanks, Max, but it was the WD after this date I was looking for.

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