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Roy Evans

South Staffordshire Regt War Diaries

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GraemeClarke

Roy,

Thanks for the reply, sorry in the late reply but I went to find some winter warmth !!

With your knowledge of the SSR can you help with what happened to Lieutenant Colonel William Allsop WISTANCE ?

Regards,

Graeme

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carol@kettle.org.uk

Hello

At first this might sound a bit of a weird request as my Great-grandfather served with the 9th Sherwood Foresters. :blink: However, I understand that due to the tremendous losses suffered at Suvla Bay the 9th Sherwoods formed a composite battalion with the 7th South Staffordshires in August 1915. I believe my Great Grandfather arrived as a reinforcement on 13th September. I know it is unlikely he would be listed by name (Ernest Eric Walker) but could you see if there is any reference to a draft arriving around this time?

Thanks

Carol

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Roy Evans
Roy,

Thanks for the reply, sorry in the late reply but I went to find some winter warmth !!

With your knowledge of the SSR can you help with what happened to Lieutenant Colonel William Allsop WISTANCE ?

Regards,

Graeme

Hi Graeme,

The name certainly rings a bell but I'm away from home until the weekend, I'll see what I can find then.

Roy

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Roy Evans
Hello

At first this might sound a bit of a weird request as my Great-grandfather served with the 9th Sherwood Foresters. :blink: However, I understand that due to the tremendous losses suffered at Suvla Bay the 9th Sherwoods formed a composite battalion with the 7th South Staffordshires in August 1915. I believe my Great Grandfather arrived as a reinforcement on 13th September. I know it is unlikely he would be listed by name (Ernest Eric Walker) but could you see if there is any reference to a draft arriving around this time?

Thanks

Carol

Carol,

The war diary for the period that the 7th South Staffords were in Gallipoli exists in narrative form only, written after they had arrived in France, so it is highly unlikely that your GGF's draft gets a mention. Forum member Andy Johnson has my copy of the diary at the moment, try dropping him a P.M.

Roy

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GraemeClarke

Roy

Many thanks for your input re Wistance but I am sure now that he was in the 1/6th Battalion, West Yorkshire Regiment when killed.

Unfortunately i misread a report on him which stated he rejoined his battalion in January 1917. I took it as the SSR when it may have been the WYR.

Having said that, "A Lack of Offensive Spirit? The 46th (North Midland) Division at Gommecourt" states that he WAS in charge of the 5SSR.

Curiouser and curiouser. I'll try a post to see if I can find the WD for the WYR.

Regards,

Graeme

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Roy Evans

Graeme,

At home I have an index to every entry in each of the South Stafford battalion’s war diaries which mentions a man by name. Should be able to tie him down quite closely, in and out.

Roy

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GraemeClarke

Hi Roy,

I have the same index I think and it was that that said he 'returned to Battalion' which I took to be the SSR.

I placed a thread in the Diaries section and Nigel Marshall has a copy of 'History of the Sixth Battalion West Yorkshire Regiment, By Capt E V Tempest'

He's checking that for me tonight so I may have the (correct) answer at long last.

many thanks for your interest.

Graeme

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shootdown1

Hi Roy,

Would you have the entries for the 9th,10th and 11th April 1918 in the 4th South Stafford's war diary ;also the same dates for the 7th Brigade ?

Anthony

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Cameron2165

Hi Roy,

Would there be any mention of Pte Patrick Nolan, 2/6 Btn, DOW 14.12.17?

Thanks in advance

Cam.

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GraemeClarke

Cam,

I have this

Patrick was the son of John and Sarah Nolan and was a married man living at 112, Wisemore, Walsall with his wife. He enlisted in the South Staffordshire Regiment at Walsall, his initial service number being 5248.

During the latter part of November 1917, during the Battle of Cambrai, Patrick’s battalion were in trenches in Bourlon Wood, just east of Cambrai. Commencing Thursday 29 November 1917 the Germans saturated the woods with mustard gas shells that caused appalling casualties amongst the British troops as their respirators were totally inadequate against this type of gas. Of the 600 men who entered the wood, less than 100 were able to march out. Over 400 men were killed, wounded or gassed and of the latter 64 died in hospital or on the way there.

War Diary records

28/29 November 1917 - The battalion relieved the 2nd Battalion, Coldstream Guards in support trenches in the south west of Bourlon Wood : Captain R M Sheppard Commanding C Company was wounded.

29 November 1917 - Enemy heavily bombarded Bourlon Wood with HE and gas shells and attacked front line positions on the 2/6th North Staffordshire Regiment front, to which we were in support: A Company of this battalion advanced through the wood under heavy fire and reinforced the front line in answer to the S.O.S signal: Captain H. Yeatmen commanding A Company was wounded and gassed and the Company sustained several gas casualties.

20 November 1917 - The battalion was heavily bombarded by gas and HE shells and Captain B. S. Atkinson commanding D Company killed. During these two days the battalion suffered heavy causalities from gas, the whole of A, C and D Companies becoming casualties.

Following this the battalion moved out of the line via Risecourt, Havrincourt and Ytres to Rue where they remained for some time. No engagemenets are recorded during this period.

Probably wounded during the aforementioned, Patrick was removed to hospital at Etaples where he succumbed at 23 years of age.

He is buried in Etaples Military Cemetery in Grave XXXI.D.27A and is commemorated on the Walsall roll of honour, the war memorial in the Town Hall removed from St. Paul’s Church, Walsall and on St. Patrick’s Roman Catholic Church roll of honour.

There is not a picture in the Walsall Observer but I have the following using a digi cam from the Pioneer,

post-10072-1269243030.jpg

There is a 1911 census return but I cannot say for definate if it is the correct Patrick Nolan. It records a Patrick Nolan residing at 24, Adams Street, Walsall with his brother, Charles Nolan and his wife, Lucy. This Patrick is 15 years of age and an awl blade maker.

Can you add any more, please, or confirm the 1911 census.

Graeme

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Cameron2165

Graeme,

Thanks very much for that.

Unfortunatley I can add nothing else.

Patrick lies next to my G Uncle, Noah Powell in Etaples. I asked the question as I was curious as to who he was.

I will add his photo and info to my collection.

I am visiting Etaples in August and will pay my respects to both men.

Thanks again

Cam.

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GraemeClarke

Hi Cam,

Can I ask you a favour, please.

While there could you take a picture of his grave for me to add to my work.

Many thanks,

Graeme

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Cameron2165

Graeme,

No problem at all. I will be there about 7th August.

Can you PM me after that date to remind me to send it to you.

Regards

Cam.

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Roy Evans
Hi Roy,

Would you have the entries for the 9th,10th and 11th April 1918 in the 4th South Stafford's war diary ;also the same dates for the 7th Brigade ?

Anthony

Hi Anthony, I'll check it out this evening.

Roy

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Roy Evans
Hi Anthony, I'll check it out this evening.

Roy

Better still, I have it here.

April 1918 NEUVE EGLISE

1st Inspection of 7th Infy. Bde. by Gen. Plumer at 5 p.m. Bn. moved into line at PLOEGSTREET WOOD in support. 10th Cheshires on right and 1st Wilts on left of Bde. frontage in front line.

2nd Dispositions of Battalion: - ‘A’ Coy at Bakery, ‘B’ Coy in Ploegstreet Wood, ‘C’ Coy in Avenue Farm, ‘D’ Coy in Catacombs, Hyde Park Corner. Bn H.Q. Catacombs

3rd Capt. L.J. Kelsey M.C. took over Command of ‘B’ Coy from Capt. A.H. Nutt who assumed duties of Adjutant.

4th Reconnaissance of 7th Bde. Area by all Officers and N.C.Os. preparatory to Bn. moving to front line. 2/Lieut. A. Moorcroft rejoined unit from L.G. Course. Reinforcements arrived.

5th Lieut. A.B. Millar proceeded to Transport Lines to initiate L.G. Classes. Strength in trenches reduced to 160 per Coy. – Surplus returned to Transport Lines. At dusk (7.45 p.m.) the Battalion relieved the 1st Wilts in left subsector. Dispositions of Battalion: - ‘A’ Coy at WATCHFUL POST, TILLEUL FM. & LA POTTERIE FM., ‘B’ Coy at GREY FM. RESERVE, ‘C’ Coy at AVENUE FM., ‘D’ Coy in front line.

6th Lieut. F.R. Laver rejoined ‘B’ Coy from leave.

7th ‘B’ Coy less 1 ½ Platoons relieved ‘A’ Coy in WATCHFUL POST, TILLEUL FM. & LA POTTERIE. ‘A’ Coy went back to Catacombs at Hyde Park Corner. ‘C’ Coy relieved ‘D’ Coy in front line.

2/Lieut. O.H. Mason took over Command of ‘C’ Coy 1 ½ Platoons of ‘B’ Coy remained at GREY FM. RES.

8th 2 Sections ‘B’ Coy. Under 2/Lieut. A.E. COLLINS moved from GREY FM. RES. To ANTOINE TRENCH.

2 Sections ‘B’ Coy to WATCHFUL POST.

2 Sections of ‘B’ Coy to USEFUL SPOT (Mr LAVER). During the afternoon and evening the enemy Artillery registered over the whole of the Battalion Area also on points in the back area.

10th Enemy attack opened about 3.30 a.m. by heavy shelling of back area with Gas Shell. At 5.30 a.m. he opened his barrage on front and support lines last about an hour, then lengthened to Reserve on about line of GREY FM. ‘C’ Coy in front line wiped out. 2/Lieuts S.K. MOREY & A.P. WALKER missing. No. 6 platoon, ‘B’ Company withdrew to WATCHFUL POST owing to severity of shelling, ordered to re-occupy USEFUL SPOT at all costs, platoons moved forward but were unable to occupy position. Lieut. LAVER wounded and Missing. The Gloucesters on left 10th Cheshires on right having withdrawn. Orders issued to withdraw from WATCHFUL POST.

Battalion withdrawn to Catacombs at 2.0 p.m. order to reoccupy old positions, reoccupied 5.0 p.m.

Bosch attacked 7 p.m. GREY FM. GARRISON stood fast, remainder of Bn. Withdrew to Hill 63 position isolated. Bn. Withdrew to NEUVE ENGLISE.

11th Battalion reorganised and took up outpost duty. Afternoon marched to BAILLEUL and took up outpost position.

Sorry I don't have records for the 7th Bde.

Roy

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Cameron2165

Hi Roy/Graeme,

Whilst doing some work on a little project, I came across this soldier:-

14215 Sgt Edward Beresford

8th Battalion S Staf Regt

Entered France 14.07.15

KIA 10.0716.

Do you have any info on him please?

I'm not sure if you know, but he was a Police constable in the Glamorgan Constabulary

Before the war.He was in the Penarth Station. His Police No was 205.

I will try to get a photo of him. would you like a copy?

Regards

Cam.

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Roy Evans

Cam.

He doesn't get any mention in the 8th South Staffs war diary, I have him on my datadase but have not yet got around to populating details of the 8th Batt'n.

Next month I'm looking to launch a website on the South Staffords - war diaries - casualties - unit histories - VCs, etc. Another feature will be a request for potted biographies. I'd be very happy to include your man (with acknowledgements).

Roy

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shootdown1

Roy,

Thank you so much, I did not expect to receive so much detailed information.

What where Lt Col Trents Christian names and do you have any reference to Lt Cust? R.F.A (South Stafford Artillery liaison officer)?

Anthony

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Cameron2165

Cam.

He doesn't get any mention in the 8th South Staffs war diary, I have him on my datadase but have not yet got around to populating details of the 8th Batt'n.

Next month I'm looking to launch a website on the South Staffords - war diaries - casualties - unit histories - VCs, etc. Another feature will be a request for potted biographies. I'd be very happy to include your man (with acknowledgements).

Roy

Thanks for looking Roy. I'll look forward to viewing your site,and I will put something together for you.

Kind Regards

Cam.

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Roy Evans
Roy,

Thank you so much, I did not expect to receive so much detailed information.

What where Lt Col Trents Christian names and do you have any reference to Lt Cust? R.F.A (South Stafford Artillery liaison officer)?

Anthony

Sorry Anthony, I don't have info on these guys at the moment.

Roy

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Roy Evans
Thanks for looking Roy. I'll look forward to viewing your site,and I will put something together for you.

Kind Regards

Cam.

Much appreciated, many thanks.

Roy

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ryan77

Hi Roy/Graham

I am looking for informationon on Seargent Joseph Watts 5854-7th Bn S/Staffs who died 4th October 1917

and Private John Watss 13875-8th Bn S/Staffs who died of wounds17th February 1916

Any Info would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance Paul

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mikefry

I have a man who was in the 1st Battalion South Staffordshire regiment. In the 1911 census he was to found listed amongst the serving men.

His name was Arthur GOLLICKER (no. 8777) and he is listed on CWGC site as having been killed on 7th November 1914. I think this was during 1st Ypres.

I'm wondering whether this ordinary Private rates a mention in the diaries and would like to get some idea of what his unit would have been up to when he died.

TIA

Mike Fry - Johannesburg

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battiscombe

I am interested in early Aisne battles when I gather 2nd Bn South Staffs were in and out of the line near Soupir c.18th Sept - 3rd Oct 1914 .. when in the line, at a place that came to be known as 'Rifle Point', and wondering if there is any mention of a detached gun (or indeed artillery FOOs) in the line with them, perhaps from 71st Bty (36th Bde RFA) .. I believe there was/were by 4th? October when 1/KRRC had relieved them ... thanks for any info on artillery at that time ..

david

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Roy Evans

Hi Roy/Graham

I am looking for informationon on Seargent Joseph Watts 5854-7th Bn S/Staffs who died 4th October 1917

and Private John Watss 13875-8th Bn S/Staffs who died of wounds17th February 1916

Any Info would be much appreciated

Thanks in advance Paul

Paul,

Here is the war diary for the 7th South Staffs in October 1917. Thanks to forum member Andy Johnson for the transcription. I don't yet have the 8th Battalion transcribed but will copy your info at the weekend. I'll also look for your men in my index of names at the weekend.

7th BATTALION SOUTH STAFFORDSHIRE REGIMENT

WAR DIARY

OCT.

1917 HOUTQUERKE. Appendix

1st Battalion in rest at Houtquerke (training).

Effective Strength: OFF 41 O.R. 1032

Ration Strength: OFF 26 O.R. 830

Battalion moved to SIEGE CAMP by bus, the Transport proceeding by road.

2nd Battalion moved to CANAL BANK in the morning (less ‘B’ Coy. & 1st Line Transport) and in the evening ‘D’ & ‘C’ Companies relieved the 6th Duke of Wellington’s Regiment in the front line & support respectively. ‘A’ Company relieved 1 Coy. 6th Yorkshire Regiment at VARNA FARM. ‘B’ Company moved to CANAL BANK..

3rd In the evening 2 platoons ‘A’ Company sent up for attachment to ‘D’ Company, and 2 platoons for attachment to ‘C’ Company. ‘B’ Company also moved up in close support, and tapes were laid out preparatory to forming up for the attack in the early morning of the 4th.

4th Effective Strength: OFF 41 O.R. 1030

Ration Strength: OFF 28 O.R. 851

Attack carried out on enemy positions around POELCAPELLE. (See Narrative of Operations attached - MISSING).

The Battle of Poelcappelle. From "The History of the 7th South Staffs Regiment"

During the night the forming-up tapes were put out, always a trickish job. By 4.40am the battalion was formed up for the attack. Zero hour was timed for 6am precisely, and so we had an hour and 20 minutes to wait on a typical autumn morning in Belgium; a thin drizzling rain and a cold breeze. As was expected, the enemy put down his accustomed protective barrage just before dawn, but we suffered no losses on the forming-up tapes.

Our barrage opened at 6am precisely, and we were glad to be up and doing after the long, cold, anxious wait. The enemy was resisting by distributing his forces to a great depth; his forward area was mainly defended by small nests in consolidated shell-holes generally supported by one or more machine-guns or else by larger and stronger posts centring round a concrete pill-box defended by machine-gunners.

The first and second objectives were reported captured at 8.55am; casualties had not been severe, and were all due to machine-gun and rifle fire. Further casualties were suffered from snipers and it was hard on our men that they could not go on and exploit their success. At 6.45pm the enemy was seen advancing, but it was a very half-hearted attempt.

SDGW has 42 men of the 7th South Staffs being killed in action on the 4th October.

5th Effective Strength: OFF 37 O.R. 973

Ration Strength: OFF 23 O.R. 790

See Narrative of Operations attached.

6th Effective Strength: OFF 39 O.R. 945

Ration Strength: OFF 22 O.R. 745

3 Officers and 18 Other Ranks taken on strength from 9th I.B.D.

Officers:

Lieut. C.W. PROCTER,

2/Lieut. E.V. WHITE,

2/Lieut. D.H. SKELSLEY.

Operations:

See Narrative of Operations attached.

7th Effective Strength: OFF 39 O.R. 917

Ration Strength: OFF 22 O.R. 706

2/Lieut. C.A. WHITE died of wounds at 4th Casualty Clearing Station.

Total Casualties during operations 4th to 7th

OFFICERS: Killed 5 Wounded 2

OTHER RANKS: Killed 41, Wounded 169, Missing 5. See Nominal Roll attached.

Following received from G.O.C. XVIIIth Corps: -

I have received the following from Vth Army Commander:

“The Army Commander wishes you to thank all the troops under your command who took part in the battle of 4th October. Captured documents make it clear that this was one of the heaviest blows the enemy has ever received. All arms deserve their share of praise, but particularly the Flying Corps, which did most valuable work on the day in which the German airmen did not dare to leave the ground” (ends).

I have great pleasure in circulating the above telegram and would add my hearty congratulations to all ranks who took part in our victory of 4th inst. The Infantry of 11th and 48th Divisions gained their objectives along the whole front. We now look forward with confidence to delivering further blows of the same sort.

8th Effective Strength: OFF 39 O.R. 857

Ration Strength: OFF 20 O.R. 616

Personnel of Machine Gun Company & Trench Mortar Battery attached during operations were now taken off strength on returning to their units (2 Officers & 30 Other Ranks).

1.00 a.m. Battalion was relieved in area near PHEASANT FARM by 9th WEST YORKS REGT and proceeded to SIEGE CAMP.

9.15 a.m. Battalion marched to DIRTY BUCKET CORNER & entrained for WATTEN, whence they marched to billets in LA COMMUNE, arriving at 8.00pm.

LA COMMUNE.

9th Day devoted to cleaning up and inspections.

Capt. F.E. MORRIS assumed duties of 2nd in command of the battalion from 8.10.17 vice Major A.H. ASHCROFT taken off the strength having proceeded to England for Senior Officer training at ALDERSHOT.

10th Effective Strength: OFF 33 O.R. 847

Ration Strength: OFF 21 O.R. 620

Day devoted to inspections, reorganisation, bathing, etc. Battalion inter-company football competition arranged.

11th Training. Battalion inspection by he Commanding Officer. Musketry instruction.

12th Effective Strength: OFF 38 O.R. 848

Ration Strength: OFF 31 O.R. 734

Echelons A & B consisting of 10 Officers and 129 Other Ranks rejoined from ROUTKERQUE and taken on ration strength.

Training. Special attention to musketry.

13th Training. Musketry etc. as per programme.

Capt. FORREST assumes command of “C” Company vice Capt. C. CHARLTON, died of wounds.

14th Sunday. Congratulatory telegram received from Major-General A.C. DALY Commanding 24th Division (late G.O.C. 33rd Brigade). “Overjoyed to hear splendid news”.

15th Training continued as per programme.

SPECIAL ORDER OF THE DAY XIth Divn. (Extract).

“The G.O.C. wishes to congratulate the 33rd and 34th Infantry Brigades & all troops of the Division who took part in the action on the great success of the attack of 4th October in which all objectives were taken and held”.

16th Effective Strength: OFF 37 O.R. 838

Ration Strength: OFF 31 O.R. 732

Lt. Col. D.T. SECKHAM, D.S.O. taken off strength on proceeding on duty to England.

Training. Musketry, etc. Tactical exercise under Commanding Officer.

17th 2/Lieut. H.W. CARTER evacuated to England sick, and taken off strength.

Training. Firing musketry course on range.

18th Training. Firing on the range continued. 1st Line Transport preceded the battalion by road to new area near AMES.

19th 11.14a.m.

Move. Battalion proceeded to WATTEN by road and entrained for LILLERS, thence by road to AMETTES arriving at 7p.m.

AMETTES.

20th 9.25a.m.

Battalion marched to NOEUX-LES-MINES, arriving at 4.00p.m.

Effective Strength: OFF 36 O.R. 846

Ration Strength: OFF 28 O.R. 741

NOEUX-LES-MINES.

21st Battalion relieved 14th D.L.I. in reserve ain the AUGUSTE sector. Quartermaster stores, 1st Line Transport etc. proceeded to MAZINGARBE.

2/Lieut. H.W. FORD joined the battalion for duty and posted to “B” Company.

22nd Battalion relieved 11th ESSEX Regt. on left front of brigade sector.

23rd Effective Strength: OFF 37 O.R. 852

Ration Strength: OFF 28 O.R. 743

2/Lieut. C.W. MONTGOMERY took over duties of Town Major of CITE ST PIERRE.

Patrols went out again last night to obtain details of enemy’s wire. Useful reports were brought back.

24th Quiet day. Patrol activity by night. Further information obtained re state of enemy’s wire. Very bright night making movement of patrols difficult.

25th Uneventful day. At night strong patrols left both front companies in triangular formation, with the object of obtaining identification by capturing of killing any enemy patrols of listening posts, but none were encountered.

26th No event of importance during the day. By night two patrols went out to report on any movement of the enemy, and any new work carried out on his advanced posts. Useful reports were sent in.

27th Quiet day. By night a patrol sent out to investigate enemy post behind “D” brickstack had a sharp encounter with the enemy, who fled at our approach and managed to get back to their own lines.

28th As a result of the above encounter, a strong fighting patrol covered by our Lewis Guns from the flanks went out with the objective of capturing or killing the garrison of the above post. The enemy were however ready for them and opened up heavy machine gun fire soon after they left our trenches, making it impossible for our patrol to make any further advances.

29th In the early morning the Commanding Officer carried out a stunt on “D” brickstack resulting as follows:

(1) Sniper looking through a box camouflaged as a brick was smashed.

(2) Sniper’s alternative loophole was smashed, but there was no confirmation the sniper was behind it at the time.

(3) 30 Stokes Mortar shells dropped just behind the brickstack where the Bosche is living.

(4) 20 Rifle Grenades dropped in the same place.

(5) 100 4.5in Howitzer shells dropped in the vicinity of the brickstack, and one or two in our own trench just to give our men the offensive spirit.

“The C.O. wishes to thank all ranks for the assistance they have given him in the work on the trenches, and especially the officers and other ranks who carried out the patrol work”.

Patrol of 1 officer and 12 other ranks investigated work done on the sap. They did not encounter any enemy patrols.

R.E. Party under Capt. E. BARNETT consisting of 3 officers and 140 other ranks proceeded to LES BREBIS for 2 days rest before returning to the line for cable laying under R.E.

30th Battalion was relieved by 8th Duke of Wellington’s Regiment and proceeded to billets in BULLY GRENAY arriving about 11.30p.m.

Effective Strength: OFF 37 O.R. 831

Ration Strength: OFF 28 O.R. 690

Total Casualties during 9 days – Oct 21st to 30th: KILLED: 3 Other Ranks, WOUNDED: 8 Other Ranks. (Nominal roll attached).

31st 2.15p.m.

Battalion (less R.E. party) moved by route march to billets in the neighbourhood of VAUDRICOURT arriving at 4.45p.m. Battalion H.Q. at VERQUIN.

W.H. CARTER, Lieut.Col.

Commanding 7th Battn.

South Staffordshire Regt.

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