Officers, 279th Party, School of Musketry Photograph

[PRC]

9 - Neil Alexander Buchanan Baillie-Hamilton aka Neil Alexander Buchanan-Baillie-Hamilton, Captain, 1st  Battalion, Royal Highlanders at the time of the course.

Although his image is one of the worst affected by the damage to the Musketry course picture, what I think can still be clearly seen is that he is wearing two medal ribbons.

The Peerage website entry for him reads:-

Colonel Neil Alexander Buchanan-Baillie-Hamilton
b. 25 November 1880, d. 7 August 1943
He was the son of John Baillie Buchanan-Baillie-Hamilton and Catherine Elizabeth Grace Buchanan. He married Mary Hopley, daughter of William Musgrove Hopley, on 5 April 1927. He died on 7 August 1943 at age 62, without issue.

He fought in the Boer War. He fought in the First World War. He gained the rank of Colonel in the Black Watch. He fought in the Iraq Campaign in 1920. He fought in the North-West Frontier in 1923. He was Commander of the 127th (Manchester) Infantry Brigade between 1934 and 1937. https://www.thepeerage.com/p30500.htm

The 1911 edition of Harts lists him as Baillie-Hamilton, Neil Alexander Buchanan, a Captain with the 1^st Battalion, (so only one hyphenation there!). That edition doesn’t show war services. He was commissioned a 2^nd Lieutenant in the Royal Highlanders on the 20^th January 1900.https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100805341

The Anglo-Boer War website hasn’t listed the names on the medal roll for the Black Watch and make no mention of Neil under any of those surname variations. https://www.angloboerwar.com/unit-information/imperial-units/534-black-watch

The 1901 edition of Harts has him on the officer establishment of the 2^nd Battalion - and they were in South Africa. https://archive.org/details/newannualarmylis1901lond/page/n367/mode/2up?q=%22Neil+Alexander+Buchanan+Baillie-Hamilton%22

The 1908 edition of Harts makes no reference to his War Services – although as these were supplied by the individual concerned he may just have been being modest. Then a Lieutenant he was serving as Aide-de-Camp to the Honourable Sir. W.F. Hely-Hutchinson, GCMG, and had been since the 12^th April 1907. https://archive.org/details/hartsannualarmy1908hart/page/470/mode/2up?q=%22Neil+Alexander+Buchanan+Baillie-Hamilton%22

@mrfrank perhaps with a close up we can work out if Officer 9 is wearing the ribbons of the Queens South Africa Medal and the Kings South Africa Medal - or something else.

And if anyone has subscription access to the British Newspaper Archive it looks potentially like there may be a wedding picture in the edition of the Dundee Evening Telegraph dated 6th April 1927. The marriage gets a bit of coverage in the regional press and from the snippets that the thumbnails throw up it looks like John was in charge of the Depot of The Black Watch at the time of his wedding.

His Medal Index card shows he did not deploy initially with the Black Watch as he qualifies only for the 1914/15 Star rather than the 1914 Star. Date of entry and Theatre of War are not stated, but he was initially a Major with the 1st Battalion, a unit which served throughout the war in France & Flanders. Although the contact details on the back of the MiC all relate to the Black Watch or Army General Headquarters, it looks like his medals were actually issued by the Manchester Regiment in 1921.

Like his brother Arthur, who died at Festurbert in May 1915 serving with the Seaforth Highlanders, I suspect Neil may have attended Winchester College. And although we don't have much to go on facially for Neil, what we can see bears a more than passing resemblance to the picture of Arthur on the Winchester website.https://www.winchestercollegeatwar.com/RollofHonour.aspx?RecID=68&TableName=ta_wwifactfile

Cheers,
Peter

 

Cheers,
Peter

[Bob Davies]

59 minutes ago, PRC said:

Cheers,
Peter

We have this picture Peter, I looked for him yesterday and drew a blank but not today.

I have no idea why.

Courtesy of https://www.angloboerwar.com/forum/18-site-notices/28464-book-a-military-history-of-perthshire-has-been-added-to-the-site?start=6

Edited 3 February by Bob Davies
to add another picture

[Bob Davies]

55 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

We have this picture Peter, I looked for him yesterday and drew a blank but not today.

I have no idea why.

Courtesy of https://www.angloboerwar.com/forum/18-site-notices/28464-book-a-military-history-of-perthshire-has-been-added-to-the-site?start=6

From the same site which I believe is Arthur from the Winchester site you mentioned Peter.

Picture courtesy of https://www.angloboerwar.com/forum/18-site-notices/28464-book-a-military-history-of-perthshire-has-been-added-to-the-site?start=6

https://archive.org/details/militaryhistoryo00athouoft/page/104/mode/2up

Edited 4 February by Bob Davies
To add a book

[PRC]

57 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

We have this picture Peter, I looked for him yesterday and drew a blank but not today.

Good find Bob and yes I believe the second picture is of the brother who died in 1915.

No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, belong to the current owners.

Sources:-

a: The Anglo Boer War website. https://www.angloboerwar.com/forum/18-site-notices/28464-book-a-military-history-of-perthshire-has-been-added-to-the-site?start=6

b: Winchester College Roll of Honour. https://www.winchestercollegeatwar.com/RollofHonour.aspx?RecID=68&TableName=ta_wwifactfile

I also could find anything to add to the images you've already posted for Samuel Alwyne Gabb.

12 – Samuel Alwyne Gabb Lt 3^rd Battalion, Worcestershire Regiment at the time of the course, would survive the war, command the Regiment and die in 1952.

According to his MiC he deployed with the 3rd Battalion to France on the 13th or 14th August 1914 as a Lieutenant \ Platoon Commander. (In the Worcestershire Regiment both the 3rd and 4th Battalions were full time Regular Army rather than Special Reservists units). He would subsequently serve with the 2nd Battalion as Captain and Major.
He continued serving post-war, and when the 1st Battalion deployed to Palestine in September 1938 to help deal with the Arab revolt, he was in command. https://www.worcestershireandmercianregimentmuseum.org/brief-history-of-the-worcestershire-regiment/1st-bn-the-worcestershire-regiment-in-palestine-1938-1939/

No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, belong to the current owners.

Sources:-

a: https://www.surreyinthegreatwar.org.uk/author/jh0107/

b: http://www.worcestershireregiment.com/wr.php?main=inc/o_gabb

Cheers,
Peter

[Clancy]

I thought I would try to locate the New Zealanders, numbered 5 and 7 in the photo - Garland and Burn.   I have just used mainly newspaper resources to try and locate photos.

So with the research already done by @PRC (not sure if that's going to work):

Hopefully this is the link to the page on "Paperpast" for the Otago Witness 22.11.1916 - I did test it so should work

Papers Past | Newspapers | Otago Witness | 22 November 1916 | Page 35 (Supplement) (natlib.govt.nz)

The photo - row 5 number 9 - seemingly originally to be attributed to Harold is actually his brother Hassell who also served in WW1 and it is quite small.  Hassell passed away after WW1 under tragic circumstances and most of the newspaper articles that mention Harold relate to his brother's death:

Papers Past | Newspapers | New Zealand Herald | 1 October 1926 | FINANCIAL WORRIES. (natlib.govt.nz)

I wasn't able to find a photo, so I moved along to A H Burn on the idea if one could be proven then the other New Zealander could be identified by default?

And no, I didn't find a photo of A H Burn either, however, I did read up on his family history and he had a brother Edgar James Burn who died of wounds on 05.10.1917 in Belgium.  I looked at family members in case there were family photos or there was a genetic resemblance to others.  There is a photo of Edgar on the Auckland Online Cenotaph

Edgar James Burn - Online Cenotaph - Auckland War Memorial Museum (aucklandmuseum.com)

The newspaper it is attributed to the Auckland Weekly News does not seem to appear on the Paperpast archives so I couldn't find the original article.

There is another site including Edgar James Burn and there is a photo contributed by a Neil Gilhooley.  For some reason that names sounds familiar but I don't know why? I haven't actually posted the picture (just provided link) as he was unsure which brother it was, but he did seem to have researched the family and it might be useful for family traits.

Edgar James Burn | New Zealand War Graves Project (nzwargraves.org.nz)

Finally, there is another article about Edgar that mentions his brothers and it seems Andrew most likely went by the name of "Haitly".  I did find an article in which that is how he is referred to, so I don't know if that would impact on others researching him.

Papers Past | Newspapers | Sun (Christchurch) | 11 December 1918 | PERSONALS. (natlib.govt.nz)

(Its right down the bottom.... also he went into the transport business and there are a few driving offences......)

I am back to the real world tomorrow, thank you for my enjoyable weekend that I had all to myself (while the cats way...)!  Below is the picture of AH Hastie's brother (source acknowledged above), and I may or may not have been wearing beer goggles when comparing images, but for what it is worth I think No. 5 could be AH Burn.  I'm just going by ears

 

[PRC]

Thanks for trying @Clancy - it can be wonderful the fur lined rabbit holes these searches can take us down

Cheers,
Peter

[PRC]

13 – E V Hall  Lt  3rd Battalion East Lancashire Regiment.

The 1911 edition of Harts Annual List records E.V. Hall as a Second Lieutenant on the strength of the 3^rd Battalion but serving with the 1^st Battalion. His seniority is from the 19^th September 1908. (Page 405) https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100804957

The edition of the London Gazette dated September 18, 1908 records under the heading “The undermentioned Gentlemen Cadets from the Royal Military College to be Second Lieutenants. Dated 19^th September, 1908:-
The East Lancashire Regiment, Edward Victor Hall, in succession to Lieutenant G.C.D. Kempson, promoted." https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/28178/page/6762/data.pdf
(The 1911 Army List has a Kempson as a Captain George Chester Douglas Kempson serving with the 2^nd Battalion).

The National Archive catalogue is not showing any Great War era officers long papers or personal file for Edward Victor Hall – but he does potenially have an entry in the pre-war series. They show an entry for an Edward Victor Hall in the 30^th Foot, (the old Foot Regiment number for the East Lancashire Regiment) and dating from 1908. https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C13295277

The 1911 Census of England and Wales, taken on the 2^nd April, has a 22 year old Second Lieutenant Edward Victor Hall, East Lancashire Regiment, born Bury, Lancashire, recorded at The Barracks, Fulwood, Preston.

The death of an Edward Victor Hall, aged 23, was registered in the Bury District of Lancashire in the October to December quarter, (Q4), of 1911.

The 1912 Probate Calendar records that an Edward Victor Hall of Fulwood Barracks, Preston, Lancashire died on the 26^th December 1911 at Gorsey Brow, Chesham, Bury, Lancashire. Administration of his estate was granted to a John Hall, Solicitor.

In the edition of The Times dated Thursday, December 28^th, 1911 in the personal announcements there is the briefest of notices.

HALL. – On the 26^th inst., at Gorsey Brow, Chesham, Bury, the residence of his father, EDWARD VICTOR HALL, Lieutenant The East Lancashire Regiment, aged 23 years. No flowers.

Looks like a couple of reports on the British Newspaper Archive website:-

Image courtesy The British Newspaper Archive.

On the 1911 Census of England & Wales the 54 year old Solicitor, John Hall, born Castleton, Derbyshire, was recorded as the married head of the household at Gorsey Brow, Chesham, Bury. He and wife Sophie Emily Olive Hall, (aged 37, born  Stratton St Margarets,Wiltshire – the first name of Sophie is either blotched or struck through) have only been married 12 years so she is Edwards’ stepmother. The current union has produced one child, still alive but not present in the household on the night of the census. There are then two live in servants.

The couple were recorded at Green Bank, Chesham on the 1901 Census of England & Wales along with their 6 month son Godfrey F. Hall, aged 6 months and born Bury, Lancashire. John is shown as aged 42 while his wife is recorded as Emily Olive. The birth of a Godfrey Fernie Hall, mothers’ maiden name Fernie, was registered in the Bury District in Q4 1900. The 1911 Census has a 10 year old Godfrey Fernie Hall, born Bury, Lancashire, recorded as a boarding student at Lake House Junior School, Thirlestaine Road, Cheltenham. The school served as a preparatory for Cheltenham College.

On the 1891 Census of England & Wales the 32 year old John, a married Solicitor born Castleton, Derbyshire, was recorded as the head of the household at Cart Gate, Higher Lane, Pilkington, Lancashire. Living with him was his then wife, Sarah, (39, born Bury, Lancashire), and their 2 year old son Edward V., shown as born Tottington Lower End, Lancashire.

As his half brother Godfrey attended a Cheltenham Prep School and presumably went on to the college, then must be a possibility that Edward Victor had earlier gone down the same route. Unfortunately their archives are not online. I would also have expected an Edward or Victor Hall \ Hull \ Holl \ Hill \ Hell of approximately the right age to turn up in Cheltenham, but drew a complete blank.

And if this family hadn’t had enough with one tragedy, the death of a 16 year old Godfrey Fernie Hall was registered in the Cheltenham District in Q4 1917.

So far no picture to make a comparison with, and such a waste that at the time the Musketry Party picture was taken he had only a few more weeks of life.

Peter

Edited 4 February by PRC
Typos

[mrfrank]

Some wonderful information being unearthed, so a big thank you. Here are some more images, light not great so the best I can do currently:

 

 

[Bob Davies]

To add some and to concur with your findings about  Lt Edward  Victor Hall .@PRC Peter, courtesy of fold 3;

Gorsey Brow Chesham Bury is the address of his Father from 1911 census and on name and address of relative on the form below.

Which concurs with what you have already found. Same with the address on the other form at Green Bank, Chesham.

Do my eyes deceive me when I read 'Col Hall' on the forms? 'Col' the shortened form of 'Colonel'.

No picture found as yet.

Regards, Bob.

[PRC]

26 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

Do my eyes deceive me when I read 'Col Hall' on the forms? 'Col' the shortened form of 'Colonel'.

Reading between the lines on the report from the Rochdale Times in the snippet posted above, I think it will say. “Edward Victor Hall was the elder son of Colonel John Hall, commanding officer of the ??th Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers (Territorials)”.

The 1911 edition of Harts has a J. Hall as the Lieutenant Colonel of the 5th Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers,Territorial Force, which was headquartered in the Castle Armoury, Bury. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100804549

Cheers,
Peter

[Bob Davies]

57 minutes ago, PRC said:

Reading between the lines on the report from the Rochdale Times in the snippet posted above, I think it will say. “Edward Victor Hall was the elder son of Colonel John Hall, commanding officer of the ??th Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers (Territorials)”.

The 1911 edition of Harts has a J. Hall as the Lieutenant Colonel of the 5th Battalion, Lancashire Fusiliers,Territorial Force, which was headquartered in the Castle Armoury, Bury. https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100804549

Cheers,
Peter

Thank you Peter, that explains that.

 No 16 'Lt Thomas Rupert Clutterbuck' courtesy of fold 3.

No picture found as yet.

1901 he is a student at Harrow. Born 11th May1884 Hendon

Courtesy Ancestry;

Edited 4 February by Bob Davies
to add a bit..

[PRC]

15 - Karl Ferdinand Franck William Arnold, Lieutenant 1st Battalion Suffolk Regiment at the time of the course, killed in action 23^rd April 1915 serving with the same Battalion as a Captain.

His Commonwealth War Graves Commission webpage shows his body was recovered from the battlefield in 1922 and identified from his clothing and teeth. https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/483770/karl-ferdinand-franck-w-arnold/

His father, Franck Thomas Arnold, has a Wikipedia page. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F._T._Arnold

Francks’ father was an assistant master at Rugby School, he was related to a former head, and attended the school himself as a pupil. Must be a strong probability that Karl attended there as well. The Wikipedia entry mentions that the Arnold family had strong links to Lowestoft, Suffolk, and indeed there is an F.F.W. Arnold listed in the panels in the memorial chapel at St Margarets, Lowestoft. However when I researched those a few years back it proved difficult to establish a firm link and so far in transcribing my notes from local newspapers at the Norfolk County Archive I’ve not come across a reference to him.

On the 1911 census the 23 year old unmarried Karl Ferdinand Franck William Arnold, a Captain in the 1st Battalion Suffolk Regiment, born Penarth, South Wales, was recorded in Barracks at Polymedia Camp, Cyprus.

Recorded as Ferdinand Franck William Arnold there is identical pictures of him in Memorials Of Rugbeians Who Fell In The Great War Vol 1 and De Ruvigny's Roll Of Honour Vol 1

No new IP is claimed for the above, and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owners.

Sources.

a.      https://ww1photos.com/Names/A/ArnoldFFWCaptSuffolkRegt.html

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

2 hours ago, mrfrank said:

Some wonderful information being unearthed, so a big thank you. Here are some more images, light not great so the best I can do currently:

 

 

Superb resolution now and it will be possible to identify the badges with real accuracy.  For example the officer without collar badges, wearing a white shirt and black tie is 4th Royal Irish Dragoon Guards.  I’m not sure if Peter requires all the insignia checked and confirmed?

Edited 4 February by FROGSMILE

[Bob Davies]

3 hours ago, mrfrank said:

Some wonderful information being unearthed, so a big thank you. Here are some more images, light not great so the best I can do currently:

Thank you for taking the time to do these Mike.

No  38.  Captain Lyall Brandreth, 2nd Royal Fusiliers and SoM staff.

This Officer appears on a lot of sites on the net, I thought to find him on the Hart's Lists with the hope of names for the ORs seated in the front, alas not,

however they may be elsewhere in the Hart's Lists.

Last seen alive advancing with his men, 6th June 1915 on the Gallipoli Peninsular.

Courtesy of National Library Scotland;https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/100801573

https://digital.nls.uk/british-military-lists/archive/101172421

Picture courtesy of https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Brandreth-48 and https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205291033

 

 

[PRC]

1 hour ago, Bob Davies said:

This Officer appears on a lot of sites on the net, I thought to find him on the Hart's Lists with the hope of names for the ORs seated in the front, alas not,

Bob,

Was saving this for later when I'd had time to have a run through the officers.

The course took place from the 23rd October to the 18th November 1911 according to the paperwork in the file of the New Zealander Andrew Burn. That's not much more than six months after the 1911 Census was taken on the 2nd April. So unless there had been a whole sale changeover most if not all of those NCO's are likely to be recorded on the 1911 Census return at Hythe. Could do with @FROGSMILE casting his eye over it but I don't any of them are less than a Sergeant, potentially with a fair amount of service. Which raises the prospect that if they were Senior NCO's then they may have been commissioned - either in the pre-war period or early on in the war - so may turn up as part of officer groups photos, etc.

Captain Lyall* Brandreth, Royal Fusiliers, unfortunately for this purpose was a married man living out with his family at Marsh View, Hillcreat Road, Hythe, Kent.
(*I checked a couple of genealogy websites and the first name had been transcribed as "Syall").

The Officer who signed off the pro-forma in Andrew Burn's service record saying he has passed was a Major G. Browne. A Major George Herbert Stewart Browne, single, was recorded living at Rose Villa, Parkfields, Hythe.

Looking at some of the other Officers on the Harts List.

Captain Russell Mortimer Luckock, Infantry of the Line, was living out at Red House, Seabrook Road, Hythe.
Captain Reginald F. A Hobbs, Royal Engineers, was living out at Sea Cot, Hillcrest Road, Hythe.
Colonel Walter Norris Congreve was living at The Commandants House, Hythe. Unfortunately the census returns on either side are not the Barracks.

None of the other Officers appear to be living at Hythe.

So plan B is to do a search for Sergeants \ Serjeants recorded at Hythe - and that quickly turned up these two returns.

Both images courtesy Genes Reunited.

And as I dry run I tried looking for the Sergeant Major Thomas Cokayne on the West Ward return. There is only one MiC for a Thomas Cokayne - a Second Lieutenant Nottinghamshire and Derbyshire Regiment attached Royal Irish Rifles, M.B.E. who first landed in France on the 24th January 1916.

That Officers medals were sold by Spink, and the information they provided was more than enough to establish the connection. "A Great War M.B.E. group of four to Major T. Cokayne, Nottinghamshire & Derbyshire Regiment, late Rifle Brigade, who served as a Musketry Staff Officer in Northern Command during the Great War and latterly as a Weapons Training Advisor at G.H.Q. of the Army of the Black Sea at Constantinople

Placed on the Retired List in April 1920, he nonetheless served as Officer Commanding 'C' Company of the 14th (Derbyshire) Battalion, Home Guard, during the Second World War, an impressive feat for the holder of an Edwardian L.S. & G.C. Medal

The Most Excellent Order of the British Empire, M.B.E. (Military) Member's 2nd type breast badge, hallmarks for London 1919; British War Medal 1914-20 (2. Lieut. T. Cokayne.); Defence Medal 1939-45; Army L.S. & G.C., E.VII.R. (589 Q. M. Sjt: Instr: T. Cokayne, S. of M.), light contact marks, otherwise very fine and better (4)

M.B.E. London Gazette 30 May 1919.

Thomas Cokayne was born in Derby, Derbyshire, the son of Sarah and Francis Cokayne, in 1874. Attesting at the age of 16, he began his military career by serving with the 1st Derbyshire Regiment from 1890 to 1896, before joining the School of Musketry at Hythe, Kent, and serving as a Musketry Instructor and later as a Sergeant-Major from 1896 to 1914.

During the Great War he served at home, first with the 9th Battalion, Rifle Brigade, from 25 August 1914 to 7 April 1915, and later with the Sherwood Foresters as Assistant Instructor in Musketry, until 25 September 1916, when he took on the role of Musketry Staff Officer in the Northern Command.

Following the end of the Great War, Thomas was seconded as a Weapons Training Advisor in Turkey, and subsequently gained employment in 1928 with the chemical company British Celanese Ltd., Spondon, as an Inspector of the Vigilance Staff. The company name originated from a contraction of 'cellulose' and 'ease', the resultant acetate fibres proving to be softer, stronger and cheaper than almost all other fabrics used at the time, including satin and taffeta, and ideal for the manufacture of garments.

During the Second World War Thomas served with the Local Defence Volunteers at Derby from 14 May 1940 to 23 August 1940. He subsequently acted as Major in the 12th Derbyshire (Belper) Battalion until August 1943, before commanding the 14th Derbyshire Battalion. He married Agnes Flora Flood at Dover in 1897, having presumably met her whilst serving in Kent, and the couple went on to have six children, four girls and two boys. Thomas died at home at 136 Stenson Road, Derby, aged 76, on 10 December 1950 and was interred at Normanton Cemetery."
https://www.spink.com/lot/19001000548

When Noonan's sold the medals in 2013 the lot included a low quality newspaper image.

Image courtesy https://www.noonans.co.uk/auctions/calendar/275/catalogue/232302/?sort=LotNumber

As I can see there may be some legs in this I'm going to park looking into the NCO's for now and come back once I've had a chance to run through the officers. Of course it this route appeals to anyone else it's not copyrighted

Cheers,
Peter

Edited 4 February by PRC
Hit the wrong combination of keys and posted too soon

[Bob Davies]

7 minutes ago, PRC said:

Bob,

Was saving this for later when I'd had time to have a run through the officers.

The course took place from the 23rd October to the 18th November 1911 according to the paperwork in the file of the New Zealander Andrew Burn. That's not much more than six months after the 1911 Census was taken on the 2nd April. So unless there had been a whole sale changeover most if not all of those NCO's are likely to be recorded on the 1911 Census return at Hythe. Could do with @FROGSMILE casting his eye over it but I don't any of them are less than a Sergeant, potentially with a fair amount of service. Which raises the prospect that if they were Senior NCO's then they may have been commissioned - either in the pre-war period or early on in the war - so may turn up as part of officer groups photos, etc.

Captain Lyall* Brandreth, Royal Fusiliers, unfortunately for this purpose was a married man living out with his family at Marsh View, Hillcreat Road, Hythe, Kent.
(*I checked a ciuple of websites and the first name had been transcribed as "Syall").

Edit Posted too soon  - I'm now adding the rest

Peter, I will lay off until you have done your bit on the rest, any requests for looking up things please ask.

You are the man for the job

With my regards, Bob.

 

[FROGSMILE]

14 minutes ago, PRC said:

Bob,

Was saving this for later when I'd had time to have a run through the officers.

The course took place from the 23rd October to the 18th November 1911 according to the paperwork in the file of the New Zealander Andrew Burn. That's not much more than six months after the 1911 Census was taken on the 2nd April. So unless there had been a whole sale changeover most if not all of those NCO's are likely to be recorded on the 1911 Census return at Hythe. Could do with @FROGSMILE casting his eye over it but I don't any of them are less than a Sergeant, potentially with a fair amount of service. Which raises the prospect that if they were Senior NCO's then they may have been commissioned - either in the pre-war period or early on in the war - so may turn up as part of officer groups photos, etc.

Captain Lyall* Brandreth, Royal Fusiliers, unfortunately for this purpose was a married man living out with his family at Marsh View, Hillcreat Road, Hythe, Kent.
(*I checked a ciuple of websites and the first name had been transcribed as "Syall").

Edit Posted too soon  - I'm now adding the rest

The school of musketry instructors had the minimum rank of sergeant Peter.  The staff on view at the front range from sergeant instructor to quartermaster sergeant instructor.

[PRC]

45 minutes ago, Bob Davies said:

Peter, I will lay off until you have done your bit on the rest,

I've finished off my post now and had an initial dry run at looking at one of the NCO's - see my previous post.

By all means continue to add stuff as you find it - you don't need to wait for me!

43 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

The school of musketry instructors had the minimum rank of sergeant Peter.  The staff on view at the front range from sergeant instructor to quartermaster sergeant instructor.

Thank you @FROGSMILE. I've added a couple of the Barrack Census returns to my earlier post now. From your post I take it these are exactly the sort of NCO's you'd be expecting to see. I'm sure there will be more to find but for now I'm going to focus on the officers attending the course.

Cheers,
Peter

[PRC]

16 – Thomas Rupert Clutterbuck,  Lt 1^st Battalion,Coldstream Guards at the time of the course, survived the war and died 8^th February 1933.

Thomas had married earlier in the year on the 12^th January, and looking on the British Newspaper Archive it looks like potentially the following newspapers may include wedding related pictures.
The Sketch, Wednesday 18^th January 1911.
The Queen, Saturday 21^st January 1911.
Gentlewoman Saturday 21^st January 1911.
(I had most joy searching  with the terms Clutterbuck Coldstream).

I tried looking at the editions of the Tatler for a week before and two weeks after that date but spotted nothing.

There is no obvious sign on the 1911 Census of England & Wales of Thomas or his wife Blanche

The Peerage website has the following:-
Thomas Rupert Clutterbuck was born on 11 May 1884. He was the son of Thomas Meadows Clutterbuck and Blanche Mary Darbyshire.He was educated at Harrow School, Harrow, London, England. https://www.thepeerage.com/p23095.htm

The Harrow School Archives are only accessible to School or Association members.

The Clutterbuck wealth came through brewing and public houses. http://breweryhistory.com/wiki/index.php?title=The_Clutterbuck_Story

There is a MiC for a Captain T.R. Clutterbuck, Coldstream Guards, that was created for some unknown reason in 1925, but is otherwise blank, with no medal award details.

May be a co-incidence but a Great War Forum thread on the Guards Entrenching Battalion has a Major Clutterbuck as it’s first commanding officer. https://www.greatwarforum.org/topic/216024-7th-guards-entrenching-battalion-ponsonby/

When Thomas passed away in 1933 his estate was valued at £422,021 5s 11d, (which subsequently was re-stated as £504,072 16s 3d). Even just allowing for inflation the lower amount would be worth over £20 million in 2024 terms.

Cheers,
Peter

[PRC]

18 - Edmund Alec Forestier-Walker, Lt 1^st Battalion Cheshire Regiment at the time of the course, survived the war and died in 1952.

The Peerage website has :- b. 4 September 1888, d. 9 October 1952
Edmond Alec Forestier-Walker was born on 4 September 1888. He was the son of Lt.-Col. Edmond Somerville Forestier Walker and Ellen Mary Camilla Fenton. He married Eileen de Renzy Channer, daughter of Colonel Osborne Henry Channer, on 7 July 1921. He died on 9 October 1952 at age 64. He was given the name of Edmond Alec Walker at birth. He was educated at Wellington College, Crowthorne, Berkshire, England. In 1909 his name was legally changed to Edmond Alec Forestier-Walker. He gained the rank of Captain in the Cheshire Regiment. He fought in the First World War, where he was mentioned in dispatches. He gained the rank of Colonel in the Royal Tank Corps. http://www.thepeerage.com/p41414.htm

His Medal Index Card shows him as a Lieutenant, Cheshire Regiment and (local) Captain 3^rd Kings African Rifles when he landed in German East Africa on the 4^th August 1914. Looking at the various inks and handwriting styles I suspect from the contact details he was a Major with the 5^th Tank Battalion at Wareham, Dorset in February 1920.

The marriage of Edmond A. Forestier-Walker to an Eileen D. Channer was recorded in the Fordingbridge district of Hampshire in Q3 1921. I tried the subsequent three issues of the Tatler but no pictures of the wedding there.

Reports of the wedding on the British Newspaper Archive seem to focus on the fact that his old comrade Padre Clayton officiated and that in order to do so the Padre had to fly in by aeroplane and depart by the same method straight after the ceremony. They also reference Edmond having the D.S.O. I’m not however seeing any likely pictures in that source.

The Cheshire Military Museum have not made their resources available online via The Ogilby Muster, and the digital archives of Wellington College are password protected.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

1 hour ago, PRC said:

18 - Edmund Alec Forestier-Walker, Lt 1^st Battalion Cheshire Regiment at the time of the course, survived the war and died in 1952.

 

The Peerage website has :- b. 4 September 1888, d. 9 October 1952
Edmond Alec Forestier-Walker was born on 4 September 1888. He was the son of Lt.-Col. Edmond Somerville Forestier Walker and Ellen Mary Camilla Fenton. He married Eileen de Renzy Channer, daughter of Colonel Osborne Henry Channer, on 7 July 1921. He died on 9 October 1952 at age 64. He was given the name of Edmond Alec Walker at birth. He was educated at Wellington College, Crowthorne, Berkshire, England. In 1909 his name was legally changed to Edmond Alec Forestier-Walker. He gained the rank of Captain in the Cheshire Regiment. He fought in the First World War, where he was mentioned in dispatches. He gained the rank of Colonel in the Royal Tank Corps. http://www.thepeerage.com/p41414.htm

 

His Medal Index Card shows him as a Lieutenant, Cheshire Regiment and (local) Captain 3^rd Kings African Rifles when he landed in German East Africa on the 4^th August 1914. Looking at the various inks and handwriting styles I suspect from the contact details he was a Major with the 5^th Tank Battalion at Wareham, Dorset in February 1920.

 

The marriage of Edmond A. Forestier-Walker to an Eileen D. Channer was recorded in the Fordingbridge district of Hampshire in Q3 1921. I tried the subsequent three issues of the Tatler but no pictures of the wedding there.

 

Reports of the wedding on the British Newspaper Archive seem to focus on the fact that his old comrade Padre Clayton officiated and that in order to do so the Padre had to fly in by aeroplane and depart by the same method straight after the ceremony. They also reference Edmond having the D.S.O. I’m not however seeing any likely pictures in that source.

 

The Cheshire Military Museum have not made their resources available online via The Ogilby Muster, and the digital archives of Wellington College are password protected.

 

Cheers,
Peter

 

Number 16 is Coldstream Guards, Peter.  Some of the Guards officers are in blue, but he is in Service Dress.

Are you content that you have all of the insignia identified?  If not I can perhaps assist if you’d be kind enough to number mrfrank’s improved scans, if you feel it will help, although I realise you that have most of them spotted already. 

Edited 5 February by FROGSMILE

[PRC]

39 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Are you content that you have all of the insignia identified?

Thanks for the kind offer - I'm happy to go with the units identifed by @mrfrank at this stage and flesh out the identication using the names of those known to be on the course that they also identified. I may hit a brickwall at some point, but for now I think the only doubt I had was over the identification of the 20th Hussars Officer. The latest crops posted by him however makes it much clearer that a correct unit identification has been made for Officer 19.

Cheers,
Peter

[FROGSMILE]

Just now, PRC said:

Thanks for the kind offer - I'm happy to go with the units identifed by @mrfrank at this stage and flesh out the identication using the names of those known to be on the course that they also identified. I may hit a brickwall at some point, but for now I think the only doubt I had was over the identification of the 20th Hussars Officer. The latest crops posted by him however makes it much clearer that a correct unit identification has been made for Officer 19.

Cheers,
Peter

Yes I did think that all the insignia was identified.  I confused myself and didn’t spot that you had already identified Clutterbuck as No 16.  Apologies.

[PRC]

20 - John Blount Dinwiddie Lt, ASC, at the time of the course, survived the war and died in 1958.

On the 1891 Census of Scotland there is a 4 year old John B Dinwiddie, born Troqueer, Kirkcudbrightshire, recorded living at Caerlaverock, Dumfrieshire. Parents were James B. Dinwiddie, (aged 40, Solictor & Notary Public, born Irongray, Kirkcudbrightshire) and Agnes E. Dinwiddie, (aged 31, born Dumfries, Dumfrieshire).

By the time of the 1901 Census of England & Wales the widow Agnes E. Dinwiddie, (aged 43, born Scotland and living on own means) had moved the family to St. Peter Port, Guernsey. Children included John B., (14), Marjory B., (13), James T., (9) and Agnes L., (8) – all simply recorded as born Scotland.

John Blount-Dinwiddie and his brother James Travers Blount Dinwiddie would both attend Elizabeth College on the osland. John was placed in the Army Class and prepped for entrance to Sandhurst, eventually coming 88^th in the entrance exam in the school year 1904-05. His brother James would gain a Classical Scholarship to Pembroke College, Sandhurst in the 1907-08 school year. https://elizabethcollege-heritage.daisy.websds.net/Filename.ashx?tableName=ta_annualregisters&columnName=filename&recordId=24

The marriage of a John Blount Dinwiddie to a Mabel Winifred Horton was recorded in the Cuckfield District of Sussex in Q3 1908. From a snippet visible on the British Newspaper Archive from the Guernsey Evening Press and Star dated September 22^nd, 1908 the marriage had taken place on the 16^th August at St. John’s Church, Burgess Hill. Nothing to suggest the newspaper has a picture of the wedding.

Neither John, his wife, his brother or their mother were obviously on the 1911 Census of England & Wales.

According to his MiC John was a Captain in the Army Service Corps when he first landed in France on the 10^th August 1914. He would go on to receive the D.S.O., finishing his war service overseas as a Brevet Major with the D.A.D.S. at G.H.Q. Among the information on the back of his card is an application on his behalf for the 1914 Star received in January 1918 from the General Officer Commanding British Forces in Italy. At the time John personally applied for his medals in May 1920 his contact address was given as the Supply Reserve Depot, Deptford.

Brother James, a Captain in the 1^st Battalion, Border Regiment would die at the Empire Hospital in London on September 13^th 1915 of wounds received at Anafarta Ridge, Gallipoli, on August 21^st 1915. https://www.militaryimages.net/media/john-travers-blount-dinwiddie.67923/
http://www.greatwarci.net/honour/guernsey/database/blount-dimwiddie-jt-amberley.htm

A picture of brother James and more details on his military career can be found here. http://www.cgwfa.org.uk/Remembering%20Pages/Dinwiddie%20J.pdf
(I have to say in my opinion he looks very similar to Officer 20).

Here’s a facial comparison of the two men.

 

No new IP is claimed for the above and all image rights, if any, remain with the current owners.

According to a comment on this blog his sister Agnes worked for MI6, for which she received an MBE.
 http://www.kathrynshistoryblog.com/2020/02/captain-jt-blount-dinwiddie.html

On the 1921 Census of England & Wales there is a household at Lewisham that consisted of:- John Blount-Dinwiddie, born Dumfries c1886,
Mabel Winifred Blount-Dinwiddie, born Guernsey c 1881
Winifred Agnes Blount-Dinwiddie, born Perth, Scotland, c1910.

An April 1938 edition of the London Gazette sees a Colonel John Blount-Dinwiddlie, of “Pendeen”, Yelverton, appointed one of the Commissioners of Land Taxes for the County of Devon. https://www.thegazette.co.uk/London/issue/34504/page/2630/data.pdf

The death of a 72 year old John Blount Dinwiddie was registered in the Burton-upon-Trent District in Q3 1958. The 1959 Probate Calendar records that John Blount-Dinwiddie,of 8 Clay Street, Stapenhill, Burton-on-Trent, died on the 17^th September 1958.

Cheers,
Peter

[Bob Davies]

16 hours ago, PRC said:

There is no obvious sign on the 1911 Census of England & Wales of Thomas or his wife Blanche

He is down as Rupert Peter.

His wife Blanche, is daughter of  'Colonel Humphrey Pocklington Senhouse' a family from Cumbria.

Possibly a route for a picture. They were married 1st Q 1911 Cockermouth, Cumbria.

The brother in Law on the census is Lt Oscar Senhouse. Coldstream Guards (former Trooper LH AIF) KIA 18th June 1915. ( @stevenbecker you were looking for this soldier a few years back)

a link to him with a picture and a little information is here at IWM.

https://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205388202

Courtesy of ancestry