Officers, 279th Party, School of Musketry Photograph

[tankengine888]

Has it been highlighted 43 is wearing South African War ribbons?

[PRC]

7 hours ago, tankengine888 said:

Has it been highlighted 43 is wearing South African War ribbons?

@FROGSMILE has suggested previously that was the most likely pair of ribbons being worn by this Quartermaster Sergeant Instructor. Any additional confirmation is very welcome as that is the basis on which I'm investigating possible candidates. The 1911 Census, taken 6/7 months earlier, lists 4 QMSI's at Hythe. One, Raddall, has been identified as likely to be number 44. Another, Chaney, can be ruled out as a later wartime picture of him as an RFC\RAF officer shows no medals ribbons - the assumption being that he was working with the other half of the 279th Musketry Party.

That leaves two names from the census. One, Harry Mansfield Lee, was ex-Royal Marines, and his entry in the Register of Services shows prior to his transfer to Hythe in 1903 he had no entitlement to "Medals, clasps, etc".  So again may have been working with the other half of the Musketry Party, although looks like there was also a great deal of practical development work going on at Hythe at the same time as well as liasion work with the arms manufacturers. (See Henry Edward Chaney for his involvement in preparing the Lewis Gun for adoption by the British Army and his pre-war suggestion for its use as an aerial weapon in preference to the Vickers MG).

Which leaves me with a man with a very common name. While I believe I have a candidate for him, the details indexed for his WO364 record on FindMyPast and Ancestry doesn't exactly tally with the information on the census return. So it's on my library hit list to check out before I waste everyones' time.

If it is the right man, I can then start looking for comparison pictures.

Cheers,
Peter

[tankengine888]

Ah I see. Well, all I can say is that it is most certainly a South African pair.

In relation to Chaney having no medal ribbons, I think that's untrue. Medal ribbons are below wings usually, and you can barely see the tip of his observer wings in the newspaper photo. See Ball VC's jacket.

[PRC]

27 minutes ago, tankengine888 said:

In relation to Chaney having no medal ribbons, I think that's untrue. Medal ribbons are below wings usually, and you can barely see the tip of his observer wings in the newspaper photo.

Apologies - over-simplification. I quite agree that the newspaper picture wouldn't show any medal ribbons. Fortunately his AIR76 Statment of Services shows his only medal entitlement was as an  Officer of Order of British Empire. There is no hint of overseas service during the Great War - his role seems to have been as either an Instructor or Inspector in connection with Aerial Gunnery in the Home Training establishment.

Cheers,
Peter

[tankengine888]

1 minute ago, PRC said:

Apologies - over-simplification. I quite agree that the newspaper picture wouldn't show any medal ribbons. Fortunately his AIR76 Statment of Services shows his only medal entitlement was as an  Officer of Order of British Empire. There is no hint of overseas service during the Great War - his role seems to have been as either an Instructor or Inspector in connection with Aerial Gunnery in the Home Training establishment.

Cheers,
Peter

Ah I understand now. Still an interesting person despite not being the man photographed.

[stephen p nunn]

On 07/02/2024 at 21:41, PRC said:

Given the Maldon connection I wonder if forum member @stephen p nunn has come across him?

Any mention of Claude \ Viervelle I could find in the newspapers seems to have used as an excuse to bring up his father, another Claude, who also seems to have had a hot temper. Even in his seventies he was publicly challenging a "younger" cousin, (in his fifties) to a duel at dawn with a choice of pistols or swords. The interview for potential male employees was a boxing match and going through the newspapers I couldn't help but notice that his butler shot himself after falling foul of his employer. What a happy household that must have been

Cheers,
Peter

BTW Peter, Just as an aside: Sir Claude Champion de Crespigny Bart. (Viervelle's father) purchased the fairly new manor house which had been built by E.H. Bentall on the site of the old Broad Street farmhouse (then Heybridge, now Great Totham), which he re-named Champion Lodge. The de Crespigny estate incorporated other properties, including Plumptons (aka Butterfly Hall). In 1902 Sir Claude submitted building plans to make additions to Plumptons. This was completed by 1903, when a surveyor’s certificate was issued. With those “improvements” came a name change – Poplar Grove. Major Claude Vierville Champion de Crespigny, had served in the Second Boer War and on 13/1/1900 had been wounded holding the line at the Battle of Poplar Grove in South Africa. It is believed that this prompted the name change that continues to this day.