Frev, Married soldiers

[stevenbecker]

Z,

Cheers Mate, you know all marriage docs in his file show June in Essex, where did you find April in Hertfordshire?

S.B

[tankengine888]

That is a good question. Re-reading it, probably June 6th, 1918?

 

[stevenbecker]

Mate,

I was thinking this maybe another of the Proxy weddings, as the soldier was not there?

Then again who knows

Of cause if he did marry her in April, then why was she not on the ship home, as almost all were?

Frev's the expert here.

S.B

[tankengine888]

I've been reminiscing over a bastardisation incident at cadets.. alot of reflecting over it.

First son was Gordon Reginald Harrison, born on August 27th, 1920 in Geelong - later VX81736 2/AIF. So if my thinking is correct, Harrison was conceived towards December 1919. 

In the 1919 Electoral Roll, Harrison is living alone.

 

I'll hand the talking stick over to Frev now..

[frev]

On 17/07/2023 at 21:19, tankengine888 said:

How about ol' George Mowat.

MM on the Hindenberg Line, he married Norma Chapman in March 1919 in Auckland, Durham. Although he was not killed in the Great War, he was killed in Kokoda in 1942.

 

Thanks Zidane - Mowat is new to the database, and an interesting find!

 

Good pick-up on Reginald Harrison Steve - obviously a typo on the copy of the marriage certificate,  as Zidane pointed out he was married in 1918.  Thanks to you both...

Married Constance Agnes WELLS on the 6^th of June 1918 at St Mary’s Church, Stansted, Bishops Stortford, Essex, England.  Constance was 21 at the time of marriage and working as an Insurance Clerk.  She was the daughter of Charles, a Boilermaker/Engineer and Harriett Maria.  She gave birth to their first child on the 16/4/1919.

Reginald returned to Australia on the Leicestershire, embarking 9/12/1918

Constance and their daughter Joan sailed on the RMS Orsova, embarking England on the 18/7/1919

 

Cheers, Frev

 

Steve: Building a file on Harrison...found some interesting letters - for example:

Geelong Advertiser (Vic), Sat 22 Apr 1916 (p.8):
HIGHTON SOLDIER’S STORY
CAUGHT FEVER IN EGYPT, BUT WOULD NOT HAVE MISSED THE FIGHTING AT ANY PRICE.
Once again in dear old Australia after 15 months at the Front, where we had to rough it to the worst. But we were well repaid with the experience we had, I would not have missed it at any price. I saw the Pyramids, the Sphinx, old Cairo, better known as the dead city, also the mosques, which are really beautiful, and bring back old time history. I saw at one of the big mosques shells embedded in the walls that had been fired, there by Napoleon’s guns. I was deprived of seeing much service, as I was a transport driver.
In June I was laid up at No. 1 A.G.H. with rheumatic fever, and remained there for 13 weeks, when I joined the brigade again. I met Les. Lawry, Roy Gollan and Stan. Harrison, of Highton, in Egypt, also Len. Nicholson of Newtown. Len. is in No. 1 A.G.H., Heliopolis, on the staff. I also saw Cliff. Grenfell, Hendy, Reg. Carr, Cyril Levien, and many more Geelong boys, including Driver Madden. Our splendid adjutant, Captain Crowle, was loved by all; he was a soldier on parade and a gentleman off duty. When he was reported killed the boys in Egypt belonging to his regiment remarked “The gentleman of the regiment has fallen.” Poor Lt-Colonel White, who was also killed when the charge was arranged, I am told, was approached by the General and told that some Major would lead the boys into the charge. Lt-Col. White said: “No, General, I know we are facing death; I will lead the boys,” and he did. Majors Gregory, Redford, Deeble were also good officers, and were liked by the men. Trooper Les. Lawry, who pulled Trooper Hendy in when he was badly wounded, it is stated, has been recommended for the D.C.M. I am sure we all hope he gets it.
On October 4th, 1915, the Senussi tribes, near Tripoli, rose. They were dragged into it by the Turks and German gold. It was decided to send an Allied force up to quell the natives, so an Australian composite regiment was formed, and in this regiment I was lucky enough to get away. We left Heliopolis on the 24th October, embarked on the Alexandria train for Alexandria, and arrived there at 8 p.m.; had to get our horses off the train, saddle up, and ride nine miles to a place called Mex camp. We to there at midnight, fixed up our horses and slept where we could for the rest of the night. We camped at this place for 12 days, the we went into Alexandria again, and put our horses in the train again for a place called Dubba. This place has a small English garrison, and is the train terminus. We camped here that night, and the next day set off on a 10 days’ ride across the desert. We averaged about 25 miles per day, and found the water very dirty and scarce. We were very glad when we reached our base, and so were our poor horses, especially the horses which were keeping up our supply of fodder and bully beef and biscuits. The greatest drawback was fresh water, which was very hard to get. After two or three days’ rest our column moved out, and had several exciting skirmishes with good results. Then on Christmas Eve the General who was in command of our force gave us the good news that at 3 o’clock in the morning he would move out to meet the enemy, who had been located by our aeroplane. He told us the enemy were about several thousands strong. All moved out a 4 a.m., and once in range of the foe gave him a very rough handling, and inflicted very heavy loses on him. We also took several hundred camels, many sheep and goats, which were only skin and bone, 200 tents and all their camel feed, many rifles and much ammunition. Our loses all told were about 50; we brought 93 prisoners back. Our Christmas dinner consisted of two biscuits and a small bit of bully beef, but we enjoyed it thoroughly.
On the 5th January , 1916, I, with several others, was taken to the Palace Hospital, where I was told I had cardiac debility, and I was a few days later boarded for Australia as unfit for further service, and on the 8th February I left Cairo, and arrived in Melbourne after a very pleasant voyage, stopping at Colombo and Fremantle on the way.
I have since got my discharge, but I am not glad. I would like to have gone back again if I had been fit. In conclusion I would like to say a few words re Sister Mena Bromley, whose kindness and attention, while in No. 1 Australian General Hospital, will never be forgotten by me. – No. 18, Driver R.J. [sic] Harrison, Bde. Headquarters, 3rd Light Horse Brigade, Highton. [Sister Mina Alice Bromley, AANS]

Edited 25 July , 2023 by frev

[stevenbecker]

Frev,

Found another but I don't think it ended well?

FORD    Ernest    190    Dvr    1 LH Bde Trn    6R (5Co AASC) Tos 7-15 remain Egypt att WFF 2-16 crimed 10-3-16 insubordinate given 45 days FP2 to 4 ADBD at Tel el Kebir 5-16 to 7Co AASC 4 Div Trn 7-16 FGCM 13-6-17 insubordinate sentenced 3 days FP2 FGCM 7-5-18 AWoL sentenced 2 years HL to No 4 Military Prison Rouen 6-17 suspended 15-10-18 to AIBD Havre 10-18 to 15Bn 10-18 F&B (unit not stated in Sydney CMF 15 months) AKA Ernest Alfred Bennett married Evie Seymour in London 23-3-17 

That's in his file but little other details
 

 

[stevenbecker]

Frev,

Mate just as you find one another pops up

No details given the only clue is the last page thats shows he RTA with wife on the "Osterley"

LONGWORTH    William    9976    Dvr    1 LH Bde Trn    17R (5Co AASC) to Isol camp Egypt 6-16 to (24Co 3 Div Trn) AASC Trg depot Parkhouse UK 8-16 to Sgt 3 ADBD Havre 11-16 tos 1 Entr Bn 12-16 to "K" CSC 7-17 to 4 DSC 10-17 to 4 MTCo 3-18 prom 2/Lt 6 MTCo 1-6-18 to Supply officer 1 MTCo 7-18 to AIF Sports team swimming 4-19 F&B Ex 13R/2Bn to 7R/20Bn 10-15 DNE married in UK?  

Manager Tailoring    23    Rose Bay NSW    Enl 13-9-15    RTA 28-9-19

For your special touch
 

[frev]

Thanks Steve

The above 2 marriages are new to me.

William LONGWORTH married Ellen HUMPHREY on the 16/7/1919 at St Saviours' Church, Paddington, England

Cheers, Frev

[tankengine888]

Major George Matson Nicholas DSO, Married Emily Rix on October 7 1916 [Westminster, London]; KILLED IN ACTION 14/11/1916

2616 Batman to Captain Joseph Wyatt Stark, Married Maggie Marchbank on August 26 1918 [Durham]

6621 Robert Edric Ware, Married Agnus Smith in October 1918 [Uxbridge, Middlesex]

3306 Enoch Ernest Wharton, Married Minnie Andrews on March 9 1918 [Weymouth, Dorset]

322 Peter Henry Wilson, Married Ann Lloyd on July 31 1918 [Ormskirk, Lancashire]

385 John Arthur Sutherland, Married Lillian Fidler in Q4 1918 [Fulham, London]

201 Eric Rupert Ashe, Married Blanche Bessant in June 1918 [Wiltshire]

3451 John Bailey, Married Elsie Betteridge on June 11 1918 [Paddington, London]; KILLED IN ACTION 23/8/1918

2027 Alfred Alymore III, Married Florence Gray in July 1918 [Camberwell, London]; Before July 18

[frev]

Many thanks Zidane

Of the above I only had 3, AYLMORE, STARK & WILSON - all the rest are new ta.

Cheers, Frev

[tankengine888]

When was Alymore married out of interest? That couple photograph was taken on July 18, so I assume the marriage was on or before July 18

[frev]

12 minutes ago, tankengine888 said:

When was Alymore married out of interest? That couple photograph was taken on July 18, so I assume the marriage was on or before July 18

His name is actually AYLMORE (not Aly...) - he married Florence Amy GRAY on the 9/7/1918 at the Parish Church in Herne Hill, England

[tankengine888]

Ah I see, thank you!

Question; How is the database formatted?

I assume it follows something like

Name - Unit - place of marriage - date of marriage - etc etc

[stevenbecker]

Frev,

I am unsure if I gave you this bloke before as I didn't have all her details, just in case

NEAL    George    102    Dvr    1 LH Bde Trn    5Co AASC rtn rear Dtls Egypt 5-15 Tos 8-15 evac to hosp Mudros (influ - dysentry) 11-15 to hosp Egypt 11-15 (G) to 27Co 4-16 to staff ASC Trg depot 5-16 to AASC Trg depot Parkhouse UK 1-17 to HT&S Havre 5-18 to 3 DASC 6-18 to (870Co) to (867Co) 22Co 3 Div Trn 6-18 F&B RTA 1914 leave married Ellen Florance Drain in London UK 14-4-17 relist AN&MEF (1959) to Rabaul (British 11th (County of London) Bn (Finsbury Rifles) London Regt TF 2 years)    

Carter    23    Strathpine Qld / Sydney NSW    

20-8-14 & 5-12-19    RTA 8-10-18 RTA 14-5-21    

Nok Victoria Park London UK
 

[frev]

On 30/08/2023 at 15:04, tankengine888 said:

Ah I see, thank you!

Question; How is the database formatted?

I assume it follows something like

Name - Unit - place of marriage - date of marriage - etc etc

Yep you're on the right track...

NAME - SERVICE NO. - UNIT - SPOUSE - MARRIAGE DATE - PLACE - RTA DATE - SHIP - SPOUSE SHIP - OTHER DETAIL

Of course the 'OTHER DETAIL' field can hold all sorts of extra info - Birth, Parents, Occupation, Children, Divorce, Death, etc and most important a note as to whether I've created an individual word file on the couple.

Some day hopefully all this info will prove useful....

Cheers, Frev

On 06/09/2023 at 10:08, stevenbecker said:

Frev,

I am unsure if I gave you this bloke before as I didn't have all her details, just in case

NEAL    George    102    Dvr    1 LH Bde Trn    5Co AASC rtn rear Dtls Egypt 5-15 Tos 8-15 evac to hosp Mudros (influ - dysentry) 11-15 to hosp Egypt 11-15 (G) to 27Co 4-16 to staff ASC Trg depot 5-16 to AASC Trg depot Parkhouse UK 1-17 to HT&S Havre 5-18 to 3 DASC 6-18 to (870Co) to (867Co) 22Co 3 Div Trn 6-18 F&B RTA 1914 leave married Ellen Florance Drain in London UK 14-4-17 relist AN&MEF (1959) to Rabaul (British 11th (County of London) Bn (Finsbury Rifles) London Regt TF 2 years)    

Carter    23    Strathpine Qld / Sydney NSW    

20-8-14 & 5-12-19    RTA 8-10-18 RTA 14-5-21    

Nok Victoria Park London UK
 

Thanks Steve - I do actually have this couple in the database.

Cheers, Frev

[stevenbecker]

Frev,

Another I am not sure I gave you but I think I found her details so just is case I didn't

SWIFT    Travers    138    Dvr    1 LH Bde Trn    5Co AASC remain Egypt att WFF 2-16 to AASC Trg depot 5-16 to AASC Trg depot Parkhouse UK 9-16 to (870Co) 25Co 3 Div Trn 11-16 to hosp (scabies) 12-16 rtn (870Co) 1-17 to 44Bn (138a) 2-17 to L/Cpl 5-17 WIA 10-6-17 L/buttock & both shoulders shot in fighting at Messines att AIF depots (1 com) Perham Downs UK 9-17 to AIBD Rouelles 5-18 rtn 5-18 WIA 25-6-18 L/wrist & R/arm possibly when shelled during the day at Villers Bretonneux F&B att AIF depots (1 com) Perham Downs UK 9-18 RTA 1914 leave married Edith Smith in Golders Green London UK (NZ TF 2 years)    

Clerk    21    Toowong Qld    

Enl 22-8-14    RTA 23-12-18    

Nok Dunedin NZ

I am still not 100% on her last name, or where they married?
 

[tankengine888]

G'day Steve

Married Edith Jane Lawson (1896-1965) on August 22nd 1917 in Hendon, Middlesex.. Golders Green, London is alot different to Hendon, Middlesex

 

[stevenbecker]

Cheers Z

I was not sure I was reading her last name right and he was keeping her in London no other address shown, nice to clear that up.

[stevenbecker]

Frev,

Another for you, only her first name is shown and no details?

LAWRENCE    Louis    87    Dvr    1 LH Bde Trn    5Co AASC to Anzac 5-15 rtn rear Dtls Egypt 5-15 (G) to Div HQ Cairo 2-16 to CQMS AProvC Anzac Police Cairo 4-16 to hosp (influ - fever) 6-16 prom 2/Lt (03 LHR) 24-7-16 NTOS to hosp (neurasthena) 7-16 rtn 10-16 to hosp (neurasthena) 6-17 rtn 7-17 to 3 weeks UK leave 9-17 rtn 12-17 prom T/Capt APM ATD 4-18 prom T/Capt DAPM Aust MD HQ 5-18 prom Capt 6-19 married Agnes in UK    

Clerk    21    Toowoomba Qld    

Enl 20-8-14    disch UK 12-10-19       RTA 12-3-20    

Nok Toowoomba Qld
 

Possibly married when he took leave in the UK Sept 1917

He had to be discharged in the UK because his wife didn't want to leave, funny as he/they did in March 1920?

For your touch

[tankengine888]

Soloman Lewis (Louis) Lawrence

Born August 14th, 1893 in Brisbane

Married Agnes Muir Crawford on October 27th, 1917 in Hammersmith, London.

He died 1985

[frev]

Steve - I do have both these marriages in the database (sorry about the delay in replying re: Travers SWIFT - but I see, all sorted)

Louis LAWRENCE (son of Solomon Lewis & Selina, nee Marks) actually died on the 17/8/1969 (not 1985). 

Cheers, Frev

[tankengine888]

9 minutes ago, frev said:

Louis LAWRENCE (son of Solomon Lewis & Selina, nee Marks) actually died on the 17/8/1969 (not 1985). 

Ah I blame public ancestry family trees! On the public tree, it named him Soloman Lewis (Louis) Lawrence which confused me no end.

[frev]

1 minute ago, tankengine888 said:

Ah I blame public ancestry family trees! On the public tree, it named him Soloman Lewis (Louis) Lawrence which confused me no end.

Aah...never trust Ancestry family trees - always go to primary sources where possible (ie. Qld BDMs)

[tankengine888]

1 minute ago, frev said:

Aah...never trust Ancestry family trees - always go to primary sources where possible (ie. Qld BDMs)

Sometimes Ancestry Family Trees have oral family history, personal notes and so on, sometimes making it worth while.

I don't have time at the moment, but it could spin a yarn,

2589 Robert Walter Francis Ellis seems to have been married in 1917 to Michaelina Desira, an Egyptian I believe. I cannot confirm this marriage and I believe this is in his dossier.

Zidane.

[frev]

Many thanks Zidane - this is a new marriage - and good to see a detailed description of their marriage in Egypt in his service record.

Cheers, Frev