zuluwar2006 Posted 17 February Author Share Posted 17 February On 01/01/2024 at 11:58, AndyBsk said: The black paint on ASG88/98 is not period as applied on rusted area, and the Dragoner unit is nice, even there is not clear what for company is it? In part of the unit is the inspector proof where normally would be the company nr. Andy, Here are better photos from unit marking Regards, D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 17 February Share Posted 17 February (edited) I assume its different bayonet as mentioned in last thread, 2.D.3?5 which could be too a Detachement or as mentioned Dragoon Regiment and staff part of unit. Edited 17 February by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 19 February Author Share Posted 19 February (edited) Dear Gents, Today i present you a very nice example of the rare M-1884/98 Sawback Bayonet (Seitengewehr), intended for use on the Mauser GEW 98 rifle, and KAR98A Carbine. This bayonet has a unique and quite interesting unit marking for Sturmtruppen, but i cannot define the rest of the unit marking = ST. LOTN. L. 519 Design of this bayonet is based on the earlier M1871/84 bayonet with a 10 inch blade, and the first model of these were converted from those bayonets. This example was made for the GEW 98, and is the second model with added a flashguard. The sawback version of this type of bayonets are very rare, and seldom seen. This example has a very nice set of original wood grips, with a very nice hilt which not retains the nickel plating. Bayonet lock is fully functional. The blade ricasso is maker clearly marked: GOTTLIEB HAMMESFAHR SOLINGEN, FOCHET There is an inspector mark on the spine of the blade but no date is present. A very interesting model with a very unusual and rare wartime unit marking, for Sturmtruppen. Regards, D. Edited 20 February by zuluwar2006 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 20 February Share Posted 20 February (edited) There are some points to made, from the B.Karem book is more real the bayonet blade forging was delivered by Gottlieb Hammesfahr Solingen Foche, but the finisher was a unknown firm as the pommel proof is different to blade inspector stamp, this was moretime confirmed. here a sawbacked version wout the date stamp, should be probably 1915 date and used mostly with Kar98AZ carbines. Secondly the St.Lotn. doesn look like german marking, i would personally tend to capture stamp of UK or US soldier? with location here or something else for remmemberance? LOT N. looks for me english not german. L.519 could be a inventory number teoretically. Frog when removed secure strap should be from NS period also not origin configuration here when is so, the scabbard have strange lines on frog hook, same as not typical lip on mouth area, i would personally remove it from frog and look for details as this could be a postwar KS98 scabbard or different model production scabbard. Edited 20 February by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 20 February Share Posted 20 February (edited) Hopefully not a silly question, but is there evidence of WWI S.84/98 bayonets being reissued in WWII? (Knowing how the Wehrmacht was perennially short of weapons and forced to reuse / recycle anything they could get) Or were the ones still under German control in 1918 mostly scrapped afterwards as part of Versailles, etc? Edited 20 February by peregrinvs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 20 February Share Posted 20 February And my two cents I was wondering if Lotn. is not related to Lorraine, but somehow this abbreviation and the capital letter L at the end did not make sense to me - Airships, hospital. Landwehr ??? Scabbard with a frog looks like a WWII set. And the scabbard looks like it's from the Spanish M1943 model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 20 February Share Posted 20 February (edited) "but is there evidence of WWI S.84/98 bayonets being reissued in WWII? " Sawbacked version was not used post 1918, by normal S84/98nA it could be used in Weimar Reichswehr as only 2 models continued S84/98nA and S98/05nA in service in limited ammounts. Edited 20 February by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 20 February Author Share Posted 20 February Gents, It seemed we need help from experts on british bayonets, in order to explain the unit marking, if this is a british one (i doubt for it but we have to search all posdible solutions to dephine the unit marking). ST and L are good for me as german unit markings, but LOTN i do not know what it is. Weimar use is not possible to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bert.f Posted 20 February Share Posted 20 February Hello, It is possible that this is a bayonets marking of the Imperial German Colonial and overseas forces.. the letter "L" looks like "D" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 21 February Share Posted 21 February By war piece is hard to believe they would went to Africa or other colonies, the position of unit is wrong side, normally it should be on reverse crossguard, the L could be too D as mentioned. But LOTN has no real reason in german language. By Sturmtruppe it should be Abteilung or more real Batallion/Company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 25 February Author Share Posted 25 February On 11/02/2024 at 16:33, AndyBsk said: 1.C.79R could be there instead of 1079, but it would be the best to see in real as the pictures are low quality. Here are more detailed photos from the unit marking. 1.079.R.145 i can see from the dots. Regards, D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 25 February Share Posted 25 February Problem is there are additional letters under the 1079, there is in front of 1 remains of other 1, same as under 7 digit is letter U or other?, under the 0 looks like backslash, so say there is a 1079 is easy way strange, You dont known to what corespond the 1079, could be new inventory serial overstamped the old unit stamp. 1079 R didnt existed. The dot are too not clearly as other places could be remains of it too. Is too rusted to bring a correct designation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 25 February Author Share Posted 25 February I believe the correct unit marking is 1.079.R.145 The armourer (i believe) place the 079 in order not to be confused with 179 Regiment. Also is number 0 not letter U in front of 79. Unit markings made during ww1, are not based on official regulations. Nevertheless, a very rare wartime unit marking. Regards, D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 25 February Share Posted 25 February I agree with Andy's opinion. 1079 is a NEW NUMBER (mayby nr rifle) stamped on the younger regimental marking. The photo shows that 1079 is a different font and does not consist of R and the rest of the numbers Even at 7 you can see that there was something underneath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 26 February Author Share Posted 26 February 21 hours ago, Rafal1971 said: I agree with Andy's opinion. 1079 is a NEW NUMBER (mayby nr rifle) stamped on the younger regimental marking. The photo shows that 1079 is a different font and does not consist of R and the rest of the numbers Even at 7 you can see that there was something underneath. Is not 1079 but 1.079. with clear dots. If new or old number, does not matter, it seems to be a sequence on unit marking, althaught certainly there is an older erased unit marking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 26 February Share Posted 26 February You couldnt deciphere a real number of the Regiment, as the piece was overstamped with a serial. The surface is too rusted. But when You see there a 1.079 ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 26 February Author Share Posted 26 February 1 hour ago, AndyBsk said: You couldnt deciphere a real number of the Regiment, as the piece was overstamped with a serial. The surface is too rusted. But when You see there a 1.079 ok. Certainly i can see a dot after number 1 and before number 0 and i can see the unit marking 1.079.R.145 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 27 February Share Posted 27 February I will be brutal. The regimental markings are in such poor condition due to corrosion that our discussion is pointless. You see dots where I see corrosion, You can talk about whether it is a letter or a dot, but due to its visual condition, no one will judge it 100%. The bayonet is interesting because it has pierced markings. And that's all This is my opinion Best Rafal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 28 February Author Share Posted 28 February On 27/02/2024 at 18:48, Rafal1971 said: I will be brutal. The regimental markings are in such poor condition due to corrosion that our discussion is pointless. You see dots where I see corrosion, You can talk about whether it is a letter or a dot, but due to its visual condition, no one will judge it 100%. The bayonet is interesting because it has pierced markings. And that's all This is my opinion Best Rafal Rafal we have different prespectives, you are brutal, i am gentle, you see corrosion, i see a dot, BUT i have the bayonet in my hands, so i can say IT IS A DOT FOR SURE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 3 March Author Share Posted 3 March Dear Gents, Today i present you a very rare ersatz model. This is an extremely rare variation to fit the Gewehr 98 carbine. This is a rare variation of EB 28 model. Cast steel hilt with round push button. The muzzle ring removed and ground to form a raised rounded shape. Single edge fullered steel blade and longer fullers than EB 28 model, ground closer to the crossguard. Same unit marking on reverse of the crossguard and the reverse of the all steel field gray scabbard. Scabbard type is V (according boof of Roy Williams about ersatz bayonets).!! Unit marking is GebBX333 which means Gebirgs 10th Battery Army - Korps, number of weapon 333. A very rare variation for ersatz model, with interesting and hard to find matched war time unit marking. Regards, D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBsk Posted 4 March Share Posted 4 March (edited) ASG98, with interesting unit, should be Gebirgs Batallion of X . Korps? or a Geb.Batterie nr.X, question is the correct deciphering, the piece is matching which is not so obvious, the handle was probably hammered, and blade sharpened with reshaped tip, anyway its a interesting piece. The handle is probably pressed not cast. I assume its a 31cm long blade. Edited 4 March by AndyBsk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 5 March Author Share Posted 5 March On 04/03/2024 at 08:55, AndyBsk said: ASG98, with interesting unit, should be Gebirgs Batallion of X . Korps? or a Geb.Batterie nr.X, question is the correct deciphering, the piece is matching which is not so obvious, the handle was probably hammered, and blade sharpened with reshaped tip, anyway its a interesting piece. The handle is probably pressed not cast. I assume its a 31cm long blade. Andy, exactly, blade length is 31 cm, overall is 44 cm, Regards, D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zuluwar2006 Posted 5 March Author Share Posted 5 March Dear Gents, Today i present you a plain 98/05 nA bayonet with a rare war time unit marking for 164th (4th Hannover) Infantry Regiment. The bayonet is with steel scabbard. The manufacturer of the bayonet is the ERFURT and date of manufacture is 1915 on the spine of the blade with king's monogramm. Unit marking is 164.R.8.52 for 164th (4th Hannover) Infantry Regiment, 8th company, number of weapon 52. Infanterie-Regiment Nr. 164 was an Imperial German Army regiment that was attached to the 39th Infantry Brigade, X Corps (Kingdom of Hanover, Grand Duchy of Oldenburg, and Duchy of Brunswick) on the Western Front of World War I. To protect the handle of the bayonets from the flame of shots the germans constructed a steel plate on 98/05 bayonet, called flashguard. I attach a photo from a luger pistol with similar unit marking as well and decoration of a lieutenent from this regiment. Regards, D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafal1971 Posted 5 March Share Posted 5 March Funny thing Dimitrios, paradoxically, is not a very rare regimental designation. After 1914/15, the armorer (old man, probably always strictly followed the Prussian regulations) of this unit marked all bayonets of the 164th Regiment. If anyone follows 98/05 with regimental markings, they appear from time to time. But of course, congratulations on joining the Regiment 164 bayonet club Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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