Idwal Ben HUMPHREY - KLR Casualty Id solved

[HolymoleyRE]

11 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

 

What does the soldiers effects records show for Idwal Humphrey - if he had time in the ranks then there should be a £5 gratuity payment to reflect that fact.

Craig

 

Edited 30 October , 2017 by HolymoleyRE

[ss002d6252]

2 minutes ago, HolymoleyRE said:

 

Thanks - there should be a second entry for him as well - the 'see also' is a reference to this.

The war gratuity should be displayed in red - if he was commissioned from the ranks.

 

Craig

Edited 30 October , 2017 by ss002d6252

[HolymoleyRE]

28 minutes ago, ss002d6252 said:

 

What does the soldiers effects records show for Idwal Humphrey - if he had time in the ranks then there should be a £5 gratuity payment to reflect that fact.

Craig

Nothing visible Craig

[RaySearching]

Entries 1 + 2

 

No Red Stamps

 

 

Ray

[ss002d6252]

2 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

Entries 1 + 2

 

No Red Stamps

 

 

Ray

Thanks Ray.

An odd one - Assuming he was commissioned from the ranks the only other thing I can think of is that they disregarded his gratuity because he never served overseas as a ranker and  he served less than 6 month war time service in the ranks before he was commissioned.

Craig

[RaySearching]

As can be seen Joined  11/9/14  commision 3/12/14 so less than 6 months

[ss002d6252]

Just now, RaySearching said:

As can be seen Joined  11/9/14  commision 3/12/14 so less than 6 months

That would fit nicely.

Craig

[RaySearching]

2 hours ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Hi David, it may be worth noting that Poss 1 & 3 are perhaps the same man, which is my gut feel. GMJ was 1/6th and JBH was 2/6th effectively the same Unit'ish.

 

Hopefully some kind soul will pull IB Humphrey's and FN Howe's Officer files on a visit to the TNA.

 

Andy

 

The I  in the effects records could easily be taken for a J 

I have to agree with Andy that they are most likely one and the same  

 

if Idwal's service file shows Idwal as having joined as 2412  that should clinch it

 

Ray

 

 

[davidbohl]

Here's the 1914 Gores directory of Liverpool for "Humphrey", it lists the head-of household, nothing striking here, James Foyden(sic) is there, it must be James Fogden Humphrey snr.

Can't find an interesting electoral roll on Ancestry or FMP.

Dave

[HolymoleyRE]

2 hours ago, ss002d6252 said:

Thanks Ray.

An odd one - Assuming he was commissioned from the ranks the only other thing I can think of is that they disregarded his gratuity because he never served overseas as a ranker and  he served less than 6 month war time service in the ranks before he was commissioned.

Craig

Craig as the SME on this I am glad you said that, as that is what I was thinking.

[HolymoleyRE]

Also note GMJ joined one day after JBH, so this is your man Dave IMHO.....

[davidbohl]

Just in time to amend the names read out at the club on Remembrance Sunday eh ?

[RaySearching]

My head hurts 

Have we finally got there ?

 

 

Ray

 

[HolymoleyRE]

24 minutes ago, RaySearching said:

My head hurts 

Have we finally got there ?

 

 

Ray

 

Well 99.9999%.....All the signs suggest that 2412 JB Humphrey 2/6th Btn KLR Commissioned in Dec 1914 is Lt Idwal Ben Humphrey....It just needs the Officer file being pulled to hopefully nail it 100%

[RaySearching]

6 minutes ago, HolymoleyRE said:

Well 99.9999%.....All the signs suggest that 2412 JB Humphrey 2/6th Btn KLR Commissioned in Dec 1914 is Lt Idwal Ben Humphrey....It just needs the Officer file being pulled to hopefully nail it 100%

 

 

Thanks Andy 

 

Well done Team G.W.F

 

Ray

[PRC]

David,

 

Now you have Is Idwal as a very serious candidate, have you thought about re-checking the local newspapers for a report on his death and his commissioning as an officer. There is an outside chance that either could refer to a rugby-playing past which might take you to 99.99999% certainty :-)

 

Cheers,

Peter

[davidbohl]

Peter, we have a brilliant setup at Liverpool Central Library with all the local newspapers on microfiche going back into the 1800's.

I usually hole up there during the winter months anyway, at least I've got a few dates to focus on.

Hoping for an easy headline - "Idwal Ben Humphrey, known locally as Jones Ben Humphrey"....

Dave

 

[kathleen donaldson]

On 10/27/2017 at 14:28, PRC said:

David,

 

I leave it entirely up to you whether you start a new thread, (or re-animate the old one referred to on the Sefton RUFC site).

 

You have a fair selection of the "usual suspects" engaged on this thread,  so good argument for keeping this one going.

 

My line of thought was that a thread with Royal Artillery in the title might attract the attention of our more learned brethren in that area. Additionally having a thread about two individuals could see a number of cross-posts and a narrative that will be difficult to follow.  There are pluses and minuses for either approach, but no wrong answer!

 

All the best,

Peter

I have the following details from a Obituary notice.

 

Liverpool Echo 7th May 1918

 

Royal Field Artillery

Howe

Frederick Norman

Second-Lieutenant

Garston

Killed

Son of the late Richard Howe, of Halewood. Brother of William A Howe, of 19, Duncombe Road, Garston.

[kathleen donaldson]

Liverpool Echo 23rd September 1916

 

Second-Lieutenant Idwal Ben Humphrey, the youngest son of the late William Humphrey Jones. Hendrewaelod, Glan Conway, who has died if wounds was in his 21st year. He enlisted in the Liverpool's shortly after war was declared, and received a commission in the December.He was educated at the Llandudno County School and King William's College, Isle of Man and was for a short time on the staff of the London and City Bank, Castle Street.

Edited 31 October , 2017 by kathleen donaldson

[clk]

Hi,

 

So if JB is Idwal Ben, who is the man "...the eighth returned so broken in health that he has since gone under"?

 

 

Was Fred Appleby just mistaken in his belief?

 

Regards

Chris

[davidbohl]

Here's Fred with his boys in the 1913-14 season

 

 

[RaySearching]

1 hour ago, clk said:

Hi,

 

So if JB is Idwal Ben, who is the man "...the eighth returned so broken in health that he has since gone under"?

 

Was Fred Appleby just mistaken in his belief?

 

Regards

Chris

 

Chris I read it  as "the Information" (.the eighth returned so broken in health that he has since gone under) came from a newspaper report in 1924

and its possibly that it did not originate from Appleby but the product of the a newspaper reporter writing the article 

I have added the newspaper report posted earlier and highlighted the relevant paragraphs

 

 

 

 

A newspaper report wrote some six years after the war, a bit of creative  journalistic writing perhaps

 

Ray

 

[clk]

Thanks Ray. 

 

You are quite right. The newspaper report doesn't actually say that Mr Appleby said "... ... ...", nor that he supplied the information.

 

Regards

Chris

[davidbohl]

OK chaps, take a deep breath, may I ring the bell ?

This is the Devereux  database at the Museum of Liverpool Life at the Pier Head.

Guess who 2412 is  ? I.B.Humphrey

 

A happy Dave !

Bit worried about a 5' 7", 10 stone full-back playing for us at first team level, let's hope he was quick

 

 

Edited 28 May , 2018 by davidbohl
copyright infringement

[HolymoleyRE]

27 minutes ago, davidbohl said:

OK chaps, take a deep breath, may I ring the bell ?

This is the Devereux  database at the Museum of Liverpool Life at the Pier Head.

Guess who 2412 is  ?

 

A happy Dave !

 

Mines a glass of Red!

 

I think that's what we call a result...saved me a trip to TNA...😊

 

Well done GWF Pals!

Edited 31 October , 2017 by HolymoleyRE