Photographs of Stavros and the Balkans

[annieb22]

Going back to the 'propellor' photo, etc. at post #65, these two photos are on the same page in the album as those in post #12. There's something in the foreground bottom-left in the first picture of post #12 which looks like something mechanical. I wonder if it's a piece of a crashed plane and the propellor photo was part of the same incident.

Also, as Cyril labelled the front of his album "Stavros, Greece or Bulgaria...", I'm wondering which photos I may have are of Bulgaria. So far we've put everything down to Greece. Wouldn't Bulgaria be behind enemy lines? He wouldn't have meant to land so I wonder if he ended up crashing in Bulgaria instead and this is the propellor incidence. However, I know Adrian thought this may have been in northern Greece so perhaps not.

Is Bulgarian countryside similar to the part of Greece we are looking at? I'm trying to work out whether I have any other photos that I can show you.

[annieb22]

Does this help

View across Stavros Plain, from the entrance to the Rendina Gorge. In distance on left can be seen the Gulf of Orfano and Stavros village. 2nd RN Brigade, RN Division, Spring 1916.

see http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205071544

The Gulf of Orfano also manages to squeeze onto one of the maps in post No.14 here http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=139029

Thank you for the links, Michael. It's difficult to say because Starbuck hasn't described where abouts he is when he mentions it in his log.

Certainly I can see why Marlowe mentions how a gorge wind could turn a machine over.

[annieb22]

At the Jarvis Randell link, it mentioned 'weekly operational reports issued by Headquarters, R.A.F. Group, Aegean'. What are these and where might I be able to consult them? Are they in the public domain; National Archives, IWM? I'm wondering whether there might be any information on Cyril Ellen in these reports.

Also, I found this: http://www.dnw.co.uk/auction-archive/catalogue-archive/lot.php?department=Medals&lot_id=8251but I assume this is in private hands. I wonder whether the information in it has been transcribed as I'm sure others would find it useful.

[Gardenerbill]

Annie,

Could picture 2 in post #65 also be a piece of wreckage rather than a bridge?

On the Gulf question, the Turkish 1908 Salonika map has it as Gulf of Rendina.

The Austrian map 41-41 has Golf von Orfano with od Rendina written underneath.

[annieb22]

Annie,

Could picture 2 in post #65 also be a piece of wreckage rather than a bridge?

This occured to me after I posted #101. Could be a wing and some struts.

On the Gulf question, the Turkish 1908 Salonika map has it as Gulf of Rendina.

The Austrian map 41-41 has Golf von Orfano with od Rendina written underneath.

Gets more and more ambiguous, doesn't it.

[annieb22]

These photos are still near the beginning of the album but are slightly different to a lot of the others I've posted. They are larger and have a white border. I can't say if these are taken in Greece / Bulgaria or later in India or Egypt.

Beautiful view. Is it taken from a plane or was it one heck of a climb?

What are those posts? Is it a train track, sports field?

[annieb22]

I think this probably concludes our journey with Cyril Ellen in Greece.

Here are a couple of pictures of the photograph album.

My sincere thanks to Peter, Adrian, Mark, Michael, Arabis, horatio2, and seaJane for your contributions (I've learnt so much which I'd never had known without your help) and to everyone else who's been following this thread.

I think it fitting that I should sign off with words from Cyril himself. I believe he probably wrote this poem in the early 20's after he'd acquired his Wings but it most likely portrays similar flying conditions to that in the Great War.

"IF .. .. .. .."

(with profuse apologies to Rudyard Kipling)

If you can keep your head when machines around you

are losing theirs are crashing into you;

If you can thrust yourself skywards when the engine routs you,

and make allowances for the Instructors curses too;

If you can wait your turn on the tarmac, and not be tired by waiting,

Or being xapt by air hogs, don't become one after,

On being cheated out of turn, don't give way to cheating,

and yet don't fly too bad, nor crash too often.

If you can navigate - and never miss your object;

If you can shoot - and not be put off your aim;

If you can meet with Sunshine and with Thunder

And treat those two conditions just the same;

If you can hear of stunts you've just completed

Twisted by knaves to make a joke for fools,

Or watch the machine you love best, broken,

And go and build it up with obsolete tools.

If you can make a plunge with all your courage

And risk a few loops on a worn out bus,

And lose the majority of your breakfast porridge,

And never breath a word about your loss;

If you can steer your way with skill and gut

Amidst the 'Archie' or hostile scouts,

And so hold on when you long to cut,

And craven fear within you shouts!

If you can fly with novices and lead them on,

Or work with "Aces" - and not be left behind;

If you fight on when the others have gone,

Or turn back to death, a lost one to find;

If you fly well every second you're up,

If you 'take off' and 'land' without straining a nut,

Yours is the Air, in which to do as you plan,

And - at last - you'll be a pilot, my man.

[seaJane]

That really tells you something about Cyril! Thanks for sharing everything, Annie.

sJ

[pete-c]

I think this probably concludes our journey with Cyril Ellen in Greece.

Annie, it's been a fascinating journey through Cyril's photograph album. I'm sure we have all learnt something new about the areas that Cyril served in during his time in the Aegean theatre.

And I still think there is an article just waiting to be written about his service life, in both the RNAS, and RAF.

Peter.

PS. I'd still keep an eye on this thread Annie - you never know what may turn up!

[Gardenerbill]

Annie,

The Salonika and the Balkans sub forum has been quiet lately, that is until you began to share Cyril's fascinating Photograph album with us, thank you again it has been a delight and a pleasure.

Mark

[Gardenerbill]

Oh one final bit of information. You asked the question about Greece or Bulgaria. This part of Macedonia was all Greece after the second Balkan war (1912). However by 1916 the Bulgarians had occupied the area east of the river Struma so at that time technically Bulgaria.

[annieb22]

Many thanks. I've enjoyed sharing these pictures and I will definitely keep an eye on the thread.

I will continue writing up my WW1 account of Cyril's service - it's going to take even longer now with all this new information but it's immense fun.

It would be good to have some more information on the other chaps who were serving with Cyril.

This is a little bit of information taken from Rupert Forbes-Bentley's Royal Aero Club Aviator's Certificate card. He doesn't appear on the naval lists because he left in June 1918 but Marlowe mentions him in his diary a few times and he signed my two menus in April 1918. There is no photo of Forbes-Bentley on the Royal Aero Club card but he was born on 15th Aug 1885 in London and his profession is decribed as an aeronautical engineer. He took his certificate on a Wright Biplane at Beatty School, Hendon on 8th October 1914. There's a bit more about him on this web page with a picture: http://www.auspostalhistory.com/articles/1730.php

[pete-c]

This is a little bit of information taken from Rupert Forbes-Bentley's Royal Aero Club Aviator's Certificate card. He doesn't appear on the naval lists because he left in June 1918 but Marlowe mentions him in his diary a few times and he signed my two menus in April 1918. There is no photo of Forbes-Bentley on the Royal Aero Club card but he was born on 15th Aug 1885 in London and his profession is decribed as an aeronautical engineer. He took his certificate on a Wright Biplane at Beatty School, Hendon on 8th October 1914. There's a bit more about him on this web page with a picture: http://www.auspostalhistory.com/articles/1730.php

Annie, the term Aeronautical Engineer could cover a broad spectrum of jobs. He may well have been employed by one of the many firms in London - if indeed that is where he was employed - involved in the manufacture of aeroplanes or parts thereof. The term Engineer would usually be applied to people in a senior role involved in the manufacture and maintenance of all types of machinery, including engines. My Grandfather's occupation of Fitter and Turner would probably be regarded as below that of Engineer.

Having now studied the photo of Forbes-Bentley in the above link, I do think that this is the man with the blank expression sitting on the steps of the cabin in Post#21. Strangely, I haven't been able to find him on the 1911 Census.

[annieb22]

Having now studied the photo of Forbes-Bentley in the above link, I do think that this is the man with the blank expression sitting on the steps of the cabin in Post#21. Strangely, I haven't been able to find him on the 1911 Census.

I found him in 1911 living with his parents at Bay Tree Cottage, Beckley, Sussex. He's 25 years old and no occupation is listed for him - his father is living on private means. Couldn't find him on Ancestry but he's there on Find My Past.

[annieb22]

Another chap who might have slipped through the net but who signed my menus was S P Colt. I believe he was Samuel Porter Colt born 8.10.1890 who was living in San Diego before the war. His record mentions 8th Can Inftry Btn and RNAS. He was assigned to No 2 Wing Ark Royal 2 Aeg. Grp. on 19.11.17. He was apparently a DH4 pilot.

Frank Marlowe refers to a chap called Sam in his diary and I wonder if this could be him.

[Guest chris burgoyne]

Here's the village section.

village.jpg

As others have said, this is the village of Kato Krusoves

I have just joined this list and think I can make some contribution, so please bear with me while I give some background.

My grandfather, Charlie Burgoyne, was a stoker on the monitor M18 which was based at Stavros from January 1916 until the end of the war. I published an article about him (Burgoyne C.J., A Royal Navy Monitor at Stavros, The New Mosquito, Salonika Campaign Society, 22, 3-6, Sep 2010) a copy of which is on my web site. (http://www-civ.eng.cam.ac.uk/cjb/papers/salonikaarticle.pdf)

There is an article in the Naval Review of 1919 (available at http://www.naval-review.com/showissue.asp?Year=1919&Iss=3)entitled "Some Experiences in Macedonia" that was written by an unnamed midshipman who was sent ashore from the Grafton to set up an OP (observation point) at Ano Krusoves, which overlooked Chai Aghizi and the Turkish positions. The article describes well how they observed the fall of shot from the monitors and signalled corrections to them. The article includes a hand-drawn map.

We had a holiday near Stavros in 2011 and I went into the hills looking for the village of Ano, but all I found was ruins. There were two memorials to a massacre in 1941 - my Greek isn't up to translating it but it is clear that the Germans took revenge for some act of resistance. I didn't count the names of the dead but it must be about 250. The village of Ano Krusoves (which is where the midshipman was billeted) is just ruins - some of which also have memorials to massacred inhabitants. I think the strip of photos in Annie's post was taken from the observation point and that the village is Kato Krusoves. The village itself no longer exists - there are not even any ruins standing - but the church (monastery?) does - now in splendid isolation overlooking the Struma valley.

Referring to the strip of photos in the earlier post - I have virtually identical photos taken from the likely location of the Ano OP, although I suspect we were not as far forward - the land appears to have much more scrub than in 1916 and I didn't want to go onto private land to take my photos. My photos are also not so clear - there was a lot of heat haze around since we were there in the height of the summer. The loop in the river in the middle goes round the hill of the ancient city of Amphipolis, which is now an archaeological site and open to visitors. I'm not sure where the front line was in this area. It is clear that the Brits couldn't have held the western bank of the river if the turks held Amphipolis, so I suspect that the front line was in the valley beyond the hill - the turks certainly held the high ground behind it. I suspect that the author of the Naval Review article could have been the same person that took the photos.

One thing we found fascinating when in Stavros, and the whole area around it, was the fact that none of the current population is descended from people who were there in WW1. The area had been largely turkish or bulgarian at the time and it was only in 1923, when the wholesale "ethnic cleansing" took place after the abortive invasion of Turkey by Greece, that the current population moved in. Most of them said that their grandparents had come from Smyrna. So it turned out that I knew more about their local history than they did, which was the opposite of what I had expected.

Chris Burgoyne

[Gardenerbill]

Chris,

Welcome to the forum and thank you for providing more evidence.

The forces occupying the eastern bank of the Struma were the Bulgarians, the Turks had been pushed out of this part of Macedonia in the the first Balkan war 1911.

[Guest chris burgoyne]

Thanks very much once again gentlemen. You're real troopers helping me out like this.

I found some useful modern day photos at http://aroundguides.com/13817306- the second shot shows a view of the Mouth of the Struma, not too dissimilar to my panorama. I feel quite certain now that the observation post was quite close to the village of Kato Krusoves represented by the blue dot on the McMaster map at reference: 47 H9 9.9 (ooh, get me with my new-found map reading skills!).

Thanks for the useful local knowledge Adrian. That link I posted above shows a modern photo of the bell tower at Kato Kerdylia and I think the last two photos are of Neohori Bridge.

It's a sad tale about the village so I thought I'd tidy the photo up to do it justice and so, for anyone who's interested, I've rescanned the village at a higher resolution and placed it on my family history website together with the rest of the Lower Struma images - including the panorama which is a bit bigger on there. The album can be viewed at http://www.hibbitt.org.uk/barnesgallery/places/the-lower-struma--greece--during-world-war-1/

Interesting that Cyril's photo is of Mount Athos. I can place Cyril in the Akte Peninsula in June 1918. I have a letter signed by Cyril's C.O., Major Jacobs, giving him and Lt W R Glenney permission to visit the Akte Peninsular [sic] from 24th to 29th, authorized by G.H.Q. Would this have been a WW1 mini-break ie. a brief period of leave, or official business? I think probably the former and Cyril most likely took the photograph whilst sight-seeing. He was obviously on a ship of some kind when he took the photo but I imagine he stopped off on dry land too. I may have some other pictures relating to this trip, Adrian, which I'll post over the next few days if you'd be so kind as to help me out once again.

Finally, here's another picture. What on earth is this? Looks like a torpedo on a beach. I can't confirm the location.

SCAN0672a.jpg

I suspect that photo of the torpedo was taken on 30th August 1918 at Stavros. M18's log reads

"17.16 Saw HMS Endymion attacked by submarine. 2nd torpedo fired at HMS Abercrombie. Missed and ran ashore. Raised steam and recalled liberty; patrolled inside nets."

The Germans apparently claimed that Endymion was sunk by U37 but she was only damaged.)

Chris Burgoyne

[annieb22]

Hi Chris,

Welcome to the forum and thanks for posting the link to the Naval Review.

What a pity the midshipman is anonymous in the article. He mentions he went there in October 1916, almost a year before Cyril Ellen's photos were taken. The article says the only map in existence at the time was a reconnaissance map drawn to a scale of 1/100,000. The odd thing is the McMaster site says the map at http://digitalarchive.mcmaster.ca/islandora/object/macrepo%3A4092was produced in October 1916. I wonder how long the midshipman was there. He doesn't mention the RNAS, yet we know that D Sqdn was there in Aug 1916 for a short time and back again from October 1916 onwards. He talks about spotting (and something called N.O.S.) so maybe they are involved but he doesn't clarify this.

It's great to see an actual picture of the OP too. The map in the article also confirms that the location of the OP matches the placement of the blue dot on the McMaster map.

Good to know M18's log also mentions the torpedo incident. So far we have Frank Marlowe's diary, Endymion's log and now M18's. I wonder where else it may get a mention.

Annie

[annieb22]

Some of you may be interested to know that the photograph of the village of Kato Krusoves is going to be used in a documentary on German TV. More at http://www.hibbitt.org.uk/blog/item/481

[pete-c]

Hi Annie, Its good to know that some of these wonderful images are to be used to educate the current, and hopefully future generations, about just what human beings are capable of. With any luck this programme may well be featured on British television - with sub-titles - in the near future.

Peter.

[annieb22]

Cheers Peter. I think Cyril would have approved. He worked for the Control Commission for Germany after WW2 to help with the reconstruction of the country.

[pete-c]

I'm sure he would.

[Lörscher]

as for Post #54 from 14.03.2015 (page 3) and the torpedo on the beach:

This pice was salved by an working party of Monitor HMS Abercrombie and was brought to Mudros and finally to Malta for further examination. In fact this torpedo run underneath the stern of HMS Abercrombie.

Oliver

[annieb22]

Hi Oliver,

Good to know what happened to the torpedo. At what point was it disarmed?

Annie

PS. I have replied to your PM.