Photographs of Stavros and the Balkans

[pete-c]

Could someone clarify for me what patrols were. Cyril is later involved in spotting according to Marlowe's log book entries. I understand what spotting is and I presume reconnaissance is when they took photographs or perhaps notes about guns, etc. But submarine and mine patrols and 'dawn patrols' as Marlowe puts them, how does this differ to recces?

Patrols were basically the 'boring' stuff. This would usually be the task of the two seat aircraft, flying on a pre determined route, perhaps for a period of two or three hours, over the sea, to look out for any mines that might have been positioned by the enemy, or for any signs of submarines. I believe I am right in stating that WW1 submarines didn't have a great deal of battery capacity - batteries were their means of propulsion when submerged - therefore they would have had to come to the surface and use their diesel engines to re-charge the batteries. This of course was the time they were at their most vulnerable to air attack. As mentioned in post#44, the Sopwith Strutter was used in many roles and when flying anti-submarine patrols would probably be armed with a bomb or two, in the hope of dropping said ordnance on to any unsuspecting sub.

Monitor M32 was stationed at Stavros from July 1916 through to September 1917, so it's more than likely that this photo was taken off Stavros. The Stavros Squadron - of which M32 was a part - was very active following the Allied offensive of September 1916. All the monitors in this Squadron, M18,19,20, 28 and 32, were usually off Chai Aghazi (Cajagzi) firing on Bulgarian defensives in a attempt to keep the enemy troops tied down.

[Gardenerbill]

Annie,

I have had another look at the map on the McMaster website and deduced the following:

The map is divided into 4 large squares; top left is 36, top right is 37, bottom left is 47 and bottom right is 48.

Each of these large squares is divided into 25 smaller squares marked A to Z (excluding E).

In the top left corner of the map there is a square subdivided into 9 squares marked 1 to 9, each individual square on the map has marks to help with these sub divisions

Each of these sub division is then divided again into 10 (imaginary) squares these are read along then up.

So 37 Y 2 8.6 is:

Large square 37 (top right)

Square Y

Sub square 2 (top middle of Y)

Then within the sub square 8 along and 6 up.

So in between the up turned V of the 2 streams marked in the square.

As these maps are different to the Army ones I wondered if these are RFC maps?

[apwright]

Wonderful pictures, Annie!

Going back to post #33, the village, as Gardenerbill says, is Kato Krusoves/Krusovo. That's a fine photo, and possibly of great historical value! The area is now called Kato Kerdylia, but the village has been deserted and in ruins since it was destroyed, and the male population massacred, by the Germans in 1941. Only the church was rebuilt, and the original belltower still stands as a memorial to the 230 dead of Ano and Kato Kerdylia.

In post #50, the first pic is definitely Mount Athos, the Holy Mountain at the tip of the 3rd leg of Halkidiki, viewed from the north.

The 2nd photo with the monitor, looks to be taken off Vrasna Beach, looking NW.

Adrian

[annieb22]

Thanks very much once again gentlemen. You're real troopers helping me out like this.

Annie,

I have had another look at the map on the McMaster website and deduced the following:

The map is divided into 4 large squares; top left is 36, top right is 37, bottom left is 47 and bottom right is 48.

Each of these large squares is divided into 25 smaller squares marked A to Z (excluding E).

In the top left corner of the map there is a square subdivided into 9 squares marked 1 to 9, each individual square on the map has marks to help with these sub divisions

Each of these sub division is then divided again into 10 (imaginary) squares these are read along then up.

I found some useful modern day photos at http://aroundguides.com/13817306- the second shot shows a view of the Mouth of the Struma, not too dissimilar to my panorama. I feel quite certain now that the observation post was quite close to the village of Kato Krusoves represented by the blue dot on the McMaster map at reference: 47 H9 9.9 (ooh, get me with my new-found map reading skills!).

Going back to post #33, the village, as Gardenerbill says, is Kato Krusoves/Krusovo. That's a fine photo, and possibly of great historical value! The area is now called Kato Kerdylia, but the village has been deserted and in ruins since it was destroyed, and the male population massacred, by the Germans in 1941. Only the church was rebuilt, and the original belltower still stands as a memorial to the 230 dead of Ano and Kato Kerdylia.

In post #50, the first pic is definitely Mount Athos, the Holy Mountain at the tip of the 3rd leg of Halkidiki, viewed from the north.

Thanks for the useful local knowledge Adrian. That link I posted above shows a modern photo of the bell tower at Kato Kerdylia and I think the last two photos are of Neohori Bridge.

It's a sad tale about the village so I thought I'd tidy the photo up to do it justice and so, for anyone who's interested, I've rescanned the village at a higher resolution and placed it on my family history website together with the rest of the Lower Struma images - including the panorama which is a bit bigger on there. The album can be viewed at http://www.hibbitt.org.uk/barnesgallery/places/the-lower-struma--greece--during-world-war-1/

Interesting that Cyril's photo is of Mount Athos. I can place Cyril in the Akte Peninsula in June 1918. I have a letter signed by Cyril's C.O., Major Jacobs, giving him and Lt W R Glenney permission to visit the Akte Peninsular [sic] from 24th to 29th, authorized by G.H.Q. Would this have been a WW1 mini-break ie. a brief period of leave, or official business? I think probably the former and Cyril most likely took the photograph whilst sight-seeing. He was obviously on a ship of some kind when he took the photo but I imagine he stopped off on dry land too. I may have some other pictures relating to this trip, Adrian, which I'll post over the next few days if you'd be so kind as to help me out once again.

Finally, here's another picture. What on earth is this? Looks like a torpedo on a beach. I can't confirm the location.

[Gardenerbill]

Annie,

Love the torpedo picture! The aroundguides web page for Kato Kerdylia is really interesting for a modern day view, also the map on the page could be really useful for working out modern place name equivalents. You can pan around the whole of the british sector from the Stavros right round to the river Vardar.

[pete-c]

Finally, here's another picture. What on earth is this? Looks like a torpedo on a beach. I can't confirm the location.

SCAN0672a.jpg

Yup - definitely a torpedo! No idea about the location though and I suppose if this photo was dated you would have mentioned it. I do know that a Short 184 seaplane from Ark Royal made at least two practice torpedo drops aimed at a target somewhere in Mudros Bay in January 1918, as part of the Goeben search. I can't quite decide whether that is a striped pole sticking out of the sand, just to the right of the torpedo's tail, and if it could possibly be one of a pair positioned as an aiming point. It's obviously a gently sloping beach and presumably the weapon was not armed!! Without something to gauge the scale against it is difficult to judge the size. The ones dropped from the 184 would have been 14" (diameter)

I concur with both Gardenerbill and apwright about these images. Your teasing us with these photos - how many more can there be!

Annie, just checking if you saw my reply in Post#51 - just realised I messed up my quote.

[annieb22]

Annie,

Love the torpedo picture! The aroundguides web page for Kato Kerdylia is really interesting for a modern day view, also the map on the page could be really useful for working out modern place name equivalents. You can pan around the whole of the british sector from the Stavros right round to the river Vardar.

I hadn't actually taken in the map at that link but have now taken a 'trip' around the area - good fun.

Yup - definitely a torpedo! No idea about the location though. Annie, I suppose if you were aware of a date of this photo you would have said so, but I do know that a Short 184 from Ark Royal made at least two practice torpedo drops aimed at a target somewhere in Mudros Bay, in January 1918. I can't quite decide whether that is a striped pole sticking out of the sand, just to the right of the torpedo's tail, and weather it could possibly be one of a pair placed as a target / aiming point. It's obviously a gently sloping beach and presumably the weapon was not armed!! Without something to gauge the scale against it is difficult to judge if it is a 14" or 18" torpedo - this would give us a possible date range.

Annie, just checking if you saw my reply in Post#51 - I messed up my quote.

Hi Peter, yes I did see your previous reply, thank you. I was wondering whether the allied powers also had submarines in the area as well as the central powers. Do we know which part of the navy would have been at Cajagzi?

As you suspected, I don't know when the torpedo photo was taken but I believe you're right - it certainly does look like a striped pole there which would explain what it was all about. I assumed it wouldn't have been armed, no-one would willingly get that close would they, not unless they wanted to practice their disarmament skills!

I concur with both Gardenerbill and apwright about these images. Your teasing us with these photos - how many more can there be!

As they say, that's for me to know and for you to find out, ha, ha! Seriously though, there are a few more photos to go but I'm getting less confident they are all of Greece - I may be moving into India and Egypt territory.

Here are a couple more to peruse...

[annieb22]

These pictures all appear on the same page as each other. I was wondering if Adrian might be able to recognise any of the landmarks.

[pete-c]

The photo of the chap paddling is interesting. I think the contraption he is sitting in is made from one of the main floats from a Sopwith Schneider / Baby seaplane - obviously one that has been deemed no longer fit for purpose. These floats could be quite fragile and it was not unusual for them to suffer damage when subjected to a hard landing. Just out of shot, connected to the horizontal poles, are probably two small outrigger floats. The vertical pole I would guess is for a sail.

This was obviously a fairly common use for these old floats - I have come across other photos of officers in similarly constructed contraptions.

As you say, I think Adrian might well be able to pin-point the locations of the last five images. What a shame the shot of the inside of the church isn't in colour!

[pete-c]

Hi Peter, yes I did see your previous reply, thank you. I was wondering whether the allied powers also had submarines in the area as well as the central powers. Do we know which part of the navy would have been at Cajagzi?

The British submarine E11 was probably the most famous of the Allied subs during the Dardanelles / Gallipoli campaigns. At one point it made it through the 'narrows', into the Sea of Marmara, and then made it's way out again. A miraculous piece of seamanship. After the withdrawal from Gallipoli I'm not sure if any Allied subs were active off the Bulgarian coast.

Re naval movements in the Stavros /Salonika area I can quote from the book Big Gun Monitors:

"The RN's role in the Eastern Mediterranean from 1916 could be summarised as:

(i) Blockade of the Dardanelles and harassing the Turkish coastline.

(ii) Supporting the Allied Salonika Army and blockading the Bulgarian Aegean coastline.

(iii) Protection of the Aegean bases and retaining Greek support.

(iv) Protection of the Suez Canal.

(v) Protection for Allied shipping.

Apart from the last, these duties determined the employment of the small monitors [such as M32] for the rest of the war. Generally, four monitors were deployed on the Mitylene patrol (4th Detached Squadron), one or two at Imbros close to the Dardanelles (2nd DS), one at Salonika (3rd DS), four at Stavros (6th DS) and four in the Suez Canal area (East Indies Squadron)."

Apart from the above, also occasionally active would have been one of the larger monitors sporting much bigger guns. The two Edgar Class cruisers, Endymion and Theseus, were also stationed off Stavros.

Hope this helps Annie.

[apwright]

As you say, I think Adrian might well be able to pin-point the locations of the last five images.

I can do 3 out of 5

Photo 1 in #58 is the "Kastraki", the port of Megisti Lavra monastery on Athos, near where the photo of the mountain from the boat was taken.

Photo 2 is Zograf monastery.

Photo 3 is the "Trapeza" (dining room) at Vatopedi monastery.

4 and 5 could easily be on Athos too, but I can't identify them. I'll ask my brother-in-law, who walks the peninsula every year, whether he can recognise no.4, but no.5 could be just about any monastery, and has probably been renovated in the intervening 100 years.

Adrian

P.S. Here's the dining room in colour...

[annieb22]

The photo of the chap paddling is interesting. I think the contraption he is sitting in is made from one of the main floats from a Sopwith Schneider / Baby seaplane - obviously one that has been deemed no longer fit for purpose. These floats could be quite fragile and it was not unusual for them to suffer damage when subjected to a hard landing. Just out of shot, connected to the horizontal poles, are probably two small outrigger floats. The vertical pole I would guess is for a sail.

I love the fact that the man in the makeshift canoe is still wearing his tie!

Apart from the above, also occasionally active would have been one of the larger monitors sporting much bigger guns. The two Edgar Class cruisers, Endymion and Theseus, were also stationed off Stavros.

Peter, when you mentioned the Endymion, I thought it rang a bell so I checked Marlowe's diary and found it mentioned several times. Best of all, I think I've solved the mystery of the torpedo. His diary entry for 30th Aug 1918 reads as follows...

"A huge explosion startled us after lunch and a great cloud of smoke went up over Stavros harbour, hiding the Endymion There was no sign of aircraft and everyone was puzzled. Then there was a sudden outbreak of gunfire and shells started whizzing past and ricochetting with great masses of water and smoke blown hundreds of feet into the air just off the beach. It looked as if our quarters were being shelled. Then we could see the flashes from our guns at Stavros and that the Endymion had received a torpedo in her side where a big hole showed. Luckily her anti-torpedo 'blister' saved her from sinking. News came that a submarine fired two torpedoes but one missed and ran up the beach. The CO is away at Salonika and I am acting CO being senior Fl/Lt. Three of our machines are bombed up and get off but find no trace of the sub. Randall was up at the time and says he saw the torpedoes streaking towards the ship and he let go one of his bombs. (It was the first time we had fitted bombs to Camels.) Great excitement! All ships are searching the area. Two men in a skiff were blown up and never seen again."

When I get a chance I'm going to re-read Marlowe's diary because I think it's going to put lots more into perspective for me after posting these photos and getting everyone's feedback. For anyone else who's interested, it's well worth a read and can be downloaded for £3 at http://www.crossandcockade.com/store/Product.asp?cat=28&id=251#sthash.7j4TdbGy.dpbs

[annieb22]

Thanks so much for identifying the places in the photos, Adrian, The Trapeza really comes to life in colour and I can see why Cyril would have wanted to photograph it.

I've been googling the places you mentioned and am trying to get a feel for the area. It seems like it's a very peaceful part of the world and I presume it was comaparitively so when the War was on. It confirms that Cyril and Lt Glenney definitely took the trip to Athos and walked around the places there. The places are timeless, looking very similar today as they did almost 100 years ago.

I find it just as interesting to learn where the chaps went on holiday during the War as what they did during the combat, a reminder that not everything was grim all the time. Perhaps not for some poor souls though.

[annieb22]

PS. I think the bottom photo in #57 was probably taken at the same place as the fourth photo in post #58. I wonder whether the last photo in #58 is the back of the same building.

[annieb22]

This village looks like it's at quite a high altitude.

Is there some sort of small bridge over the water in this one?

[michaeldr]

His diary entry for 30th Aug 1918 reads as follows...

"A huge explosion startled us after lunch and a great cloud of smoke went up over Stavros harbour, hiding the Endymion There was no sign of aircraft and everyone was puzzled. Then there was a sudden outbreak of gunfire and shells started whizzing past and ricochetting with great masses of water and smoke blown hundreds of feet into the air just off the beach. It looked as if our quarters were being shelled. Then we could see the flashes from our guns at Stavros and that the Endymion had received a torpedo in her side where a big hole showed. Luckily her anti-torpedo 'blister' saved her from sinking. News came that a submarine fired two torpedoes but one missed and ran up the beach. The CO is away at Salonika and I am acting CO being senior Fl/Lt. Three of our machines are bombed up and get off but find no trace of the sub. Randall was up at the time and says he saw the torpedoes streaking towards the ship and he let go one of his bombs. (It was the first time we had fitted bombs to Camels.) Great excitement! All ships are searching the area. Two men in a skiff were blown up and never seen again."

Annie,

The log of Endymion can be seen transcribed on the Naval History Net

here http://www.naval-history.net/OWShips-WW1-05-HMS_Endymion3.htm

to see the original click https://s3.amazonaws.com/oldweather/ADM53-40876/ADM%2053-40876-167_0.jpg

30 August 1918

Stavros

Lat 40.68, Long 23.7

6.20 T325 arrived and anchored

Met - T 325

8.10 T1778 proceeded out of harbour

Met - T 1778

Met - D 2169

8.30 D2169 returned from nets.

9.35 ML228 proceeded out harbour

Met - ML 228

Met - T 269

2.25 ML228 returned to harbour.

2.40 T269 arrived. Received 4 bags of mails from T269

4.30 Ts 269 and 325 proceeded out of harbour

5.17 Torpedo struck on Port side. 9, 10 and 11 Blisters pierced and other Blister Port side damaged. Ship listed 10 degrees,

5.20 Action. Port battery opened fire. Submarine seen heading Northwesterly for boom defence. 2nd Torpedo missed HMS Abercrombie and landed on beach

Met - HMS Abercrombie

5.25 6,7,8,12 and 14 Blisters flooded. D2169, MLs 196 and 228 on patrol

Met - D 2169

Met - ML 196

Died - Seaman McNulty Presumed drowned

Two Seamen McNulty and West missing from cutter alongside port gangway - presumed drowned

Died - Seaman West presumed drowned

Met - M 18

Met - M 32

5.40 M32 patrolling nets.

5.55 M18 on patrol.

6.5 Port watch man and arm ship. Starboard watch close watertight doors

6.14 M22 on patrol.

6.15 D2169 returned.

6.35 No 4 and 5 8 S Blisters flooded.

6.50 No 9 Blister flooded to 4 ft

Met - M 22

7.15 Ms 18 and 22 and 33 returned to anchorage.

7.30 No 9 S Blister flooded

regards

Michael

[annieb22]

Thanks for that Michael. So the torpedo was meant for the Abercrombie. I wonder what they did with it. And the "two men in a skiff" that Marlowe mentioned were Seamen McNulty and West.

[annieb22]

From the Commonwealth War Graves Commission website:

Name: McNULTY, F

Rank: Ordinary Seaman
Service No: J/38267
Date of Death: 30/08/1918
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy
H.M.S. Endymion
Grave Reference: 1829.
Cemetery: MIKRA BRITISH CEMETERY, KALAMARIA

Name: WEST, E

Rank: Ordinary Seaman
Service No: J/78232
Date of Death: 30/08/1918
Regiment/Service: Royal Navy
H.M.S. Endymion
Grave Reference: 1784.
Cemetery: MIKRA BRITISH CEMETERY, KALAMARIA

[pete-c]

Peter, when you mentioned the Endymion, I thought it rang a bell so I checked Marlowe's diary and found it mentioned several times. Best of all, I think I've solved the mystery of the torpedo. His diary entry for 30th Aug 1918 reads as follows...

A great bit of sleuthing Annie. So the torpedo was armed after all. Hopefully it was dealt with OK. Just imagine if you had been standing on the beach when that thing made its appearance - enough to spoil a chaps sunbathing! I wonder just how close this intruder got to the men's huts. There is at least one photo of British pilots on Imbros getting close and personal with unexploded enemy ordnance; I wonder if anyone was brave enough to sit on this monster?

Endymion's blisters certainly did their job didn't they. Great shame about the two poor matelots though - I wouldn't think they knew much about it. It's good that you found their burial details, thanks for that.

Your last photos certainly do give a good impression of the nature of the area - you can almost feel the heat!

[Gardenerbill]

Is that a propeller in the middle of picture 4 post #65?

I was wondering what the subject of the photograph was when I saw the shape.

[pete-c]

Many thanks for the wonderful colour pic Adrian. It does make me wonder how our own churches would look if Henry VIII hadn't had his little spat with Rome!

By the way, is anyone else having issues with the 'Quote' system? When I press Quote I only get the original post box, but no reply box.

[annieb22]

Is that a propeller in the middle of picture 4 post #65?

I was wondering what the subject of the photograph was when I saw the shape.

Try as I might, I can't see the propeller shape. Nevertheless, there must be something of interest in the picture or he probably wouldn't have taken it. Can anyone else see the propellor? It's a tiny bit like one of those puzzles you can get at the opticians when they show you a shape in a load of dots!

Many thanks for the wonderful colour pic Adrian. It does make me wonder how our own churches would look if Henry VIII hadn't had his little spat with Rome!

By the way, is anyone else having issues with the 'Quote' system? When I press Quote I only get the original post box, but no reply box.

When I press Quote or Multiquote, I get the quote come up in a box and I add my own comments outside of the box but still withing the whole outer box, if that makes sense. I think you may be replying within the original quote box. See my screenshot below.

[annieb22]

I've been trying to do some id work on the personnel. Marlowe talks about Edgar Cecil Finzi in his diary...

"Finzi gets ragged a lot. He goes about in bare feet, no collar or tie, and shorts. With his baby-like face and small size he appears to be about 13 years of age but says he is 19."

I'm wondering whether he's the chap at top-left in post #17. He's not wearing shoes or a shirt and does seem to have a baby face and be the right age. I tried to find a photograph of him elsewhere but nothing has turned up. Poor chap died on 5th September 1918 whilst out on patrol with Williams. His body was later recovered 'with his Gieve's air belt fully inflated'. Was that a sort of life belt?

[annieb22]

Lt. Glenney was Wilton Ross Glenney, sometimes spelt Glenny but I believe he used Glenney. Born 28 Feb 1898, he lived in Little Britain, Ontario, Canada and was assigned to 2 Wing on 14th Nov 1917.

I found a picture of his headstone on Ancestry.

Cemetery name: Charles Baber Cemetery. Pottsville, Schuylkill County, Pennsylvania, USA

Inscription: WILTON R GLENNEY / MAJ US ARMY AIR CORPS / WORLD WAR II / Feb 28 1898 – Jan 16 1991.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Anyone know what this is? (sorry, this is meant to be a separate post but it won't play nicely.

[ARABIS]

Post #74.

This is the breech end of a gun mounted in a turret, probably on a ship. Others more knowledgeable will be able to tell you the size of the gun etc.