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Remembered Today:

Photographs of Stavros and the Balkans


annieb22

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Re the propellor:

It's probably just my imagination, there are 2 small trees/bushes in the foreground. The left hand one appears to have 2 trunks, the right hand of the 2 trunks looks like part of a propellor sticking vertically out of the ground with the centre boss at the botton and one of the blades sticking straight up. As I said probably my over actiive imagination.

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Gieves was a firm of tailors in London from whom RN uniform and accessories could be purchased .

The standard RN life belt of the time was made of cork and many officers preferred to make a private purchase of superior quality/reliability. However Marder suggests that Gieves inflatable waistcoats may have been Admiralty issue for their flyers.

They looked much like a normal waistcoat of the time, but one was able to inflate them (blowing air through a tube) in emergency. They may also have been provided with a brandy flask.

eg: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VTG-1914-WWI-Royal-Navy-Gieves-Savile-Row-Inflatable-Waistcoat-Sir-Roger-Keyes-/251880545417?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa5401c89

also

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The photograph above is borrowed from 'Dardanelles - A Midshipman's Diary' by H M Denham, published by John Murray Ltd in 1981. ISBN 0-7195-3858-0

Edited by michaeldr
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Post #74.

This is the breech end of a gun mounted in a turret, probably on a ship. Others more knowledgeable will be able to tell you the size of the gun etc.

Thank you for that. I wonder what it was about it that made Cyril take a photo of it.

Re the propellor:

It's probably just my imagination, there are 2 small trees/bushes in the foreground. The left hand one appears to have 2 trunks, the right hand of the 2 trunks looks like part of a propellor sticking vertically out of the ground with the centre boss at the botton and one of the blades sticking straight up. As I said probably my over actiive imagination.

I see it now. You may well be right. There has to have been something there for him to have wanted to photograph.

Gieves was a firm of tailors in London from whom RN uniform and accessories could be purchased .

The standard RN life belt of the time was made of cork and many officers preferred to make a private purchase of superior quality/reliability. However Marder suggests that Gieves inflatable waistcoats may have been Admiralty issue for their flyers.

They looked much like a normal waistcoat of the time, but one was able to inflate them (blowing air through a tube) in emergency. They may also have been provided with a brandy flask.

eg: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/VTG-1914-WWI-Royal-Navy-Gieves-Savile-Row-Inflatable-Waistcoat-Sir-Roger-Keyes-/251880545417?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item3aa5401c89

A very strange looking thing it is too. I came across this advert for one. We've got a hip flask amongst Cyril's belongings. I wonder if he had one of these life belts too. He seems to have known Gieves because we've got a cap with a Gieves label inside.

EDIT: After a bit more digging, I realize the Gieves cap/beret is from a later era and so I have removed the photo as it wouldn't be relevant for a forum about the Great War. Also, I have come across a letter which Cyril wrote in August 1919 saying he'd handed in his service flying kit at Mudros before returning to England. Therefore, I doubt the flying cap would have been the one he used during WW1 either.

And here is Cyril's flask.

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This is Cyril in flying gear when he first entered the RNAS. I don't think it's quite the same cap he's holding as the one we have now. I presume this was a work camera rather than the one he took all these snaps with.

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And this one was taken in Malta so possibly on the way to the Aegean. Cyril is at the back on the left but I don't know who the other two are.

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I've read about some railways being built near Stavros during WW1. I wonder if this is something to do with one of them.

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Anyone know what this is? (sorry, this is meant to be a separate post but it won't play nicely.

attachicon.gifSCAN0652a.jpg

Ha Ha, found the problem! The icon at the top left of the tool bar was the culprit.

As ARABIS says, the breech of a ship mounted gun. Having looked through by 'bible' of monitors, the most likely candidates are M19, which for some reason displayed it's number in Roman numerals - MXIX - or, M28. Both these vessels spent time in the Stavros area from 1916 to 1918. The weapon was a 9.2" MkVI. The sloping front of the shield with the semi circular cut-out is the give away.

Annie, I must admit I studied that photo for a good while before I could see the 'propellor'. If our eyes are fooling us, perhaps these bushes had some very colourful flowers which Cyril thought worth-while snapping. A bit pointless though in monochrome!

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As ARABIS says, the breech of a ship mounted gun. Having looked through by 'bible' of monitors, the most likely candidates are M19, which for some reason displayed it's number in Roman numerals - MXIX - or, M28. Both these vessels spent time in the Stavros area from 1916 to 1918. The weapon was a 9.2" MkVI. The sloping front of the shield with the semi circular cut-out is the give away.

Aha, Cyril travelled on M28 from the Ark Royal to Stavros when he first arrived in the area. I suppose he was impressed by being so close to the gun.

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J C F Randall on the 1918 Navy list, I belive should be Lt. Jarvis Rupert Francis Randell. He signed my menus R Randell and Marlowe says he was an Irishman, although he also spelt it Randall.

1st Aug 1918 - "Randall seems to be well in with the 'horsey' set at home -- invited to George Edwardes's house parties, etc. He says he was a jockey and trainer before the war."

10th Aug 1918 - "During dinner Randall got a bit excited about the superior qualities of Irishmen and said something that made me jump over the table on to him and we both crashed into the CO's cello which was leaning against the wall, splintering it. The CO is away in Salonika. The mess was in an uproar but it was all a bit silly really because I'm half Irish myself. We are a mixed bunch - GB, New Zealand, Australia, South Africa, Canada, America."

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The November 1917 Navy List gives J. R. F. Randall as a Prob. Flt. Officer at Cranwell.

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Aha, Cyril travelled on M28 from the Ark Royal to Stavros when he first arrived in the area. I suppose he was impressed by being so close to the gun.

Isn't it great when all these little bits of information come together to help build the bigger picture.

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Construction on a light railway (decauville) from Stavros to Chai Aghazi began in 1916, by 1917 it had reached Tasli, and eventually by 1918 connected with the main Salonika line at Guvesne, providing a much improved supply line from Salonika, this is more than likely the subject of the photograph in post #82. A second line was constructed from Tasli to Angista station on the Seres main line but this wasn't completed until late 1918 early 1919.

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Thanks Peter for the details from N H Starbuck's log and diary. Marlowe's diary doesn't cover this period as he didn't arrive at Stavros until November so this is the closest I've come to finding out Cyril's movements around the period the photo was taken. In fact, I see he's mentioned on the very day the picture was taken, flying with Nicholls (not a name I've encountered before) and escorting Starbuck.

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Annie, reading through Starbuck's diary entries again, I've just noticed that I missed another entry from those in Post#41.

1/11/1917. HF [Henri Farman] N3020; 1,000ft; Gulf of Raphani; 1hr 5min; with OSL Ellen; aerodrome bombed as we were landing, got off again and waited.

I think I would have done the same! I also have to admit to a typo, again in Post#41. Starbuck's spelling is Raphani, NOT Raphini. That said, in a previous entry he also spells it Ruphani. Take your pick!

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Isn't it great when all these little bits of information come together to help build the bigger picture.

Absolutely Peter!!

Annie, reading through Starbuck's diary entries again, I've just noticed that I missed another entry from those in Post#41.

1/11/1917. HF [Henri Farman] N3020; 1,000ft; Gulf of Raphani; 1hr 5min; with OSL Ellen; aerodrome bombed as we were landing, got off again and waited.

I think I would have done the same! I also have to admit to a typo, again in Post#41. Starbuck's spelling is Raphani, NOT Raphini. That said, in a previous entry he also spells it Ruphani. Take your pick!

Sounds hairy. It's strange that I can't find anything about a Gulf of Raphani/Raphini/Ruphani. They weren't far from the Gulf of Redina but that wouldn't be it, I'm sure. Each time they went there they flew at 1000 feet and seemed to be looking for subs or mines.

I was going to buy the CCI edition with Starbuck's log in but apparently I have to purchase all 4 magazines for the whole year until the edition is 5 years old - Jan next year.

Construction on a light railway (decauville) from Stavros to Chai Aghazi began in 1916, by 1917 it had reached Tasli, and eventually by 1918 connected with the main Salonika line at Guvesne, providing a much improved supply line from Salonika, this is more than likely the subject of the photograph in post #82. A second line was constructed from Tasli to Angista station on the Seres main line but this wasn't completed until late 1918 early 1919.

Thanks for the information about the railway, Mark. I'm sure I should know this but I've been trying to locate Tasli on a map without success.

Cyril flew to Tasli Dump with Marlowe in Nov 1917 and I'd like to get my bearings on this. Are we talking about an ammunition dump? Would these take the form of heaps of bombs stacked up somewhere.

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Annie,

I am pretty sure that Tasli is about two thirds the way between Stavros and Chai Aghazi. Where Akti Neon Kerdilion is today Adrian can probably confirm this.

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I think J C Answorth is actually Lt. John Cooper Ainsworth born 20 Dec 1884. He lived in Cheshire and was assigned to 2 Wing on 7.12.17 for armament duties. He was transferred to the unemployed list on 1.5.19.

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This is the Navy List for Stavros for January 1919. These lists are obviously out of date - Cyril left the Mediterranean in November 1918.

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Absolutely Peter!!

Sounds hairy. It's strange that I can't find anything about a Gulf of Raphani/Raphini/Ruphani. They weren't far from the Gulf of Redina but that wouldn't be it, I'm sure. Each time they went there they flew at 1000 feet and seemed to be looking for subs or mines.

Annie, I should have realised this before now. Locations in this part of the world have had so many name changes over the years and the area of water off Stavros, as well as being known as the Gulf of Rendina, is also known as the Gulf of Orfano! If one takes the second syllable, and pronounce it 'farno', it's not too far away from 'phani' or 'phini'. Where the 'Ru' and 'Ra' came from God only knows!

Maps of all ages were no doubt consulted during WW1 and the intelligence officers must have had a right old time trying to put names to places and at the same time making them intelligible to the average 'flyer'. So I think we can say with some certainty that it was indeed the Gulf of Rendina that they would have been flying over, eastward along the coast towards Thasos; this would have been the main sub patrol area.

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Annie, I should have realised this before now. Locations in this part of the world have had so many name changes over the years and the area of water off Stavros, as well as being known as the Gulf of Rendina, is also known as the Gulf of Orfano! If one takes the second syllable, and pronounce it 'farno', it's not too far away from 'phani' or 'phini'. Where the 'Ru' and 'Ra' came from God only knows!

Ignore the above - or not! Further on in Starbucks diary there is a reference to the Gulf of Orphano. We have to remember that these entries have been transcribed from the original logbook, therefore the person copying has put their own interpretation on the spelling as they see it.

I can believe that Raphani, Raphini Raphoui etc. are all the same place, but where this may be I haven't got a clue. It is obviously not being mistaken for Orphano.

Back to the drawing board.

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I have to say that having done a bit of philology I would not be at all surprised that a place name Orfano could have been changed from/to Rafano, but if it definitely isn't the same place, there is a Rafina on the Greek coast east and a bit north of Athens - could that be it?

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Does this help

 

View across Stavros Plain, from the entrance to the Rendina Gorge. In distance on left can be seen the Gulf of Orfano and Stavros village. 2nd RN Brigade, RN Division, Spring 1916.

 

 

see http://www.iwm.org.uk/collections/item/object/205071544

 

 

 

The Gulf of Orfano also manages to squeeze onto one of the maps in post No.14 here

 

 

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I have to say that having done a bit of philology I would not be at all surprised that a place name Orfano could have been changed from/to Rafano, but if it definitely isn't the same place, there is a Rafina on the Greek coast east and a bit north of Athens - could that be it?

Interesting. It's difficult to say, isn't it. I wonder whether they would have travelled all that way.

On the other hand, Marlowe referred the Gulf of Orfano as the Gulf of Redina [sic] which implies a lack of consistency within the camp as to its name.

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