hazelclark Posted 18 January , 2015 Share Posted 18 January , 2015 My understanding is all casualties next of kin received the final verification form. So only what they filled in regarding forename, age, gallantry medals and 'additional info', if anything, is shown on their cwgc entry. P.M.sent. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1885 Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 Hi all, With the Register of Soldiers' Effects now on Ancestry, I've found an entry relating to my great uncle Pte. 12934 John Lee Price (see photo attached). Am I right in reading that his NOK was given £19 6s 10d, followed by a later payment (written in red) of £19? And that this second payment relates to the War Gratuity stamped in red? Regarding his NOK - I have a copy of his will which names his father Joseph as sole beneficiary. Now the NOK named on the Effects Register says (I think) 'Fa. sole leg John L' Am I right in thinking this means 'Father and Sole Legate of John Lee'? Or has someone got the name of his father wrong? Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 The top amount would be wages owed and the £19 in red was the gratuity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1885 Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 Sole Legatee. It appears in various abbreviations. Looking at others the black or blue entry seems to refer to the effects and back pay (shown) in black and the red entry refers to what is shown in red (the gratuity). If they are going to the same person. The same person's name will be shown in black/blue and red; in this case John L[ee]. R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 Just confirmed that my great grandmother received £16 for the life of her son , my great uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1885 Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 Thanks! The puzzler for me is that the sole legatee (i.e. the recipient) listed is, I believe, incorrect. His father was Joseph, not John L, which led me to wonder if the abbreviation means 'Father and sole legatee of John L.' - i.e. the clerk didn't know the name of John's father. Or, was it a simple mistake? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Hartley Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 So does that mean that those GWGC listings without nok were returned as ' gone away'.? It means either that or the form wasnt returned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 Thanks! The puzzler for me is that the sole legatee (i.e. the recipient) listed is, I believe, incorrect. His father was Joseph, not John L, which led me to wonder if the abbreviation means 'Father and sole legatee of John L.' - i.e. the clerk didn't know the name of John's father. Or, was it a simple mistake? Interesting. Some of the other ones I have looked at list a number of relations with relationship followed by name Fa ......., Br........., etc. There is one where a father Fa ..... and a number of brothers Br.... have petitioned (Scots law). I would not rule out either of the above, but I would have thought that a legatee should be named. R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rolt968 Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 Is it a correct assumption to make that the payment and to whom on these records are linked [in some way] to the soldiers will ?. For example for my great uncle the amount shown is £3.7s and in the payment column it shows £2.17s 6d to his mother Agnes [NOK] and 9s 6d to Emily, one of his elder sisters. So he must have recorded somewhere [his will?] that is what he wished otherwise how or why did the War Office [know or decide] to pay some money to his NOK [mother] and some money to one of his older sisters, I should add the great uncle was number 4 child of 9. regards Peter There need not necessarily have been a will (or at least no will needs to have been found). I know Scots law better than English, but in both it would have been possible for the NOK to apply for administration of the estate. In the case of Scots law you will find these (plus the cases which involve "normal" wills and possibly some missing soldiers' wills) under Wills at Scotlandspeople. I have found at least one case where the father seems to have proceeded for administration before the soldier's will came to light. R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 IIRC there was a short will form in the back of the paybook. I seem to remember a topic on it . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norrette Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 I found last week in the Ancestry UK will/probate section, the details of the effects of my CEF Great-Uncle whose address was in British Columbia although he fell in France. I thought that kind of record would be held in Canada. It's worth a search folks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fellop Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 There need not necessarily have been a will (or at least no will needs to have been found). I know Scots law better than English, but in both it would have been possible for the NOK to apply for administration of the estate. In the case of Scots law you will find these (plus the cases which involve "normal" wills and possibly some missing soldiers' wills) under Wills at Scotlandspeople. I have found at least one case where the father seems to have proceeded for administration before the soldier's will came to light. R. I am not so bothered about a will per se, though it might always be nice to find something like that. My question or query was really based on the fact [information] that in the resource at Ancestry it showed of the total £3 7s owed to the soldier [credits]; by name that £2 17s 6d had gone to his mother who is shown as NOK and 9s 6d went by name to one of his older sisters, Emily. Not the whole £3 7s to his mother to be split up or passed on. William was child number 4 the elder siblings in order are Florence, Hilda then Emily. William must have made it known by whatever means that 9s 6d was to go directly to Emily otherwise how or why would the war office or ‘powers to be’ know to send 9s 6d directly to Emily by name with the balance going to his mother, Agnes as NOK. Perhaps we will never know. Regards Peter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 Maybe he just left percentages of any money. He might not have known how he would have been owed or how much gratuity he would have got had he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1885 Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 Me too - possibly a mistake then. I hope his father got the money, and that it wasn't held back due to an administrative cock-up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hazelclark Posted 19 January , 2015 Share Posted 19 January , 2015 I have a copy of a form, dated 1919 in with my great uncle's records, requesting information regarding his parents and siblings. However, I have a copy of his "soldier's will" and he left everything to his mother, which is in fact what the army did when making the disbursement. Maybe his will had not surfaced at the time the form was sent. I really don't know. He was killed August 29th 1918. Hazel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMarsdin Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Thanks for posting, Mike, I only noticed the thread yesterday and wasn't aware of this record being on Ancestry, despite being a member. I've now found the maiden name of the wife of one of the men on the local memorial, who, although identified, has a complex background. I've also found extra information an In From The Cold vase that Terry Denham is working on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 A welcome digitisation and on-line availability of records that have previously only been available by application (& payment per record) to the NAM (Click for a previous discussion). My only gripe - as seems to be the case with most of Ancestry's new additions these days - is that these records are not available on the basic membership, a 'Premium' or 'World' package being required. NigelS Records are available on Ancestry library edition. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Hi, Has anyone worked out what, if any, formula was used to calculate the war gratuity shown on the records? Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Craig gave a link in post#35 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Unfortunately when I went to have a look at these records in my local library it appears 'ancestry library edition' is the .com version, they dont have them available... Yet. Hi, Available in my local library today. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Derek Black Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Good to hear, possibly just a delay in getting them on the transatlantic version? I shall investigate later in the week, cheers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tullybrone Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Craig gave a link in post#35 Hi, Thanks. I saw that but, as others have posted, the Hansard extract from 1942 states minimum gratuity was £5 so does not explain why some records show gratuities of £3. Regards Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnboy Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Unfortunately, I had the same findings but no one has offered the answers! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ss002d6252 Posted 20 January , 2015 Share Posted 20 January , 2015 Unfortunately, I had the same findings but no one has offered the answers! I couldn't find anything either but the more I look at men who died in April 15 the more £3.00 payments I see. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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