Robert Dunlop Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Here are some photos of Flesquieres and surrounds. They were taken on our recent trip to Belgium and France. The map illustrates the directions of the various photos in this first selection. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 This photograph is taken from Trescault looking towards Flesquieres. It is the approximate view General Harper would have had. You can just make out the roofs of some houses on the edge of Flesquieres. The camera has lengthed the apparent distance - the village appears closer in real life. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 In the previous photograph you can just make out a monument in the village cemetery. It is highlighted against the copse of trees on the ridge line just in from the left-hand corner of the picture. This next photo is takn from that position looking back towards Trescault. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 The next photograph is taken from the same spot but looking across the apex of Flesquieres ridge towards the trees where the chateau was located. The front edge of the polythene represents where the forward trench of the Zwischen Stellung (Hindenburg Support) would have been located. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 This photo is taken from the rear of the cemetery. It covers the area where the main trench of the Hindenburg Support would have been. You can see the slope of the ground back from the 'top' of the ridge. The slope is almost imperceptible. You get the sense of a flat area but if you stand nearer the trees, you can see the skyline of the ridge. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 This photo is taken from the cemetery looking back towards the village. The forward trench of the Support line would have been right in front of this, with the second trench running close to the village houses. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnie Posted 2 June , 2005 Share Posted 2 June , 2005 Robert Brilliant pictures, I would imagine the ground would have been a little unkept in 1917 :-) Would you like to prepare a summary of our discussion and point out the points that you think are relevant and sum up with your conclusions? I will do the same Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 2 June , 2005 Share Posted 2 June , 2005 Arnie I have some more pictures to post. Just sorting through - there are some pictures of various parts of the Marne and Aisne as well, which I will post separately. I have started work on amalgamating the various sources of information so far. But there is more to come so it is still a work in progress for me. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arnie Posted 3 June , 2005 Share Posted 3 June , 2005 Robert whilst on Holiday in france i read something about Passchendaele and 51 Div at the time i thought it might be relevant in adding a little background to our discussion. For the life in me I cannot remember what it was But I will try to reccolect Arnie PS I look forward to your pictures and your conclusions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 3 June , 2005 Share Posted 3 June , 2005 Arnie Here is a photo taken at the bottom of the Grand Ravine. Flesquieres is just away to the right on the skyline, between the gap in the trees on the right. Havrincourt and Trescault are just out of view on the left. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 3 June , 2005 Share Posted 3 June , 2005 Here is the Flesquieres map again showing the directions of the next sequence of photographs. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 3 June , 2005 Share Posted 3 June , 2005 This is the road sign on the exit from the village. The road leads down to Ribecourt. Just coming into view, bottom-right, is the sunken road that goes off at right-angles, down into the Grand Ravine. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 3 June , 2005 Share Posted 3 June , 2005 This view includes the copse where the German artillery were located to the left of the village. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 3 June , 2005 Share Posted 3 June , 2005 This shot is looking towards the copse (just left of centre) where the other German batteries were located. Just behind the trees you can see the church and houses of Graincourt. Bourlon Wood is in the far distance. With the sun shining, Bourlon Wood is like any other (well, not really as far as I am concerned). On a gloomy day, it assumes the menacing quality so often described in accounts of the battle. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 3 June , 2005 Share Posted 3 June , 2005 This photo is looking along the line of the main trench in the Hindenburg Support line. The village houses extend further along the road towards the cemetery (which is on the left, out of shot) than was the case in 1917. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 3 June , 2005 Share Posted 3 June , 2005 This is a shot of the Chateau wall, featured previously in black and white. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RodB Posted 1 May , 2006 Share Posted 1 May , 2006 Just been reading this, thanks to all for your learned contributions ! This brought to mind a question that I've asked myseld a few times.. why couldn't the air force be attacking the anti-tank guns and machine-gun nests ahead of the infantry advance ? My father tells me of calling up the cabrank when he got bogged down in Italy and along came his air support (but then he's 82 and has a selective memory). So was the problem in WWI that without ground communication the air support couldn't find small targets, or no aircraft were available, or no visibility ? Looking at it now as an armchair geneneral I'm thinking "the enemy are tactically excellent, armed to the teeth, execellently led, and utilize ground excellently. This is a deathtrap we're moving into.. we need hundreds of aircraft strafing their defenses on the reverse slopes". Where were the aircraft ? Or was air superiority impossible in the circumstances ? The other thing that strikes me is that by the time my father was attacking the various German lines, they had learned to keep numbers of strike troops down in favour of logistic support - a few guys doing the shooting, loads of guys carrying ammo, weaponry, fixing halftracks and mgs and doing all the other support stuff for them. I get the impression the Germans had learned this by Cambrai, albeit in a defensive situation - limited troops committed but really maximised for advantage - resource and hence defensive flexibility. The allied attack in contrast still comes over as a mass attack, everybody thrown into the front line. Was coordinated blitzkrieg just impossible without portable radios ? The allied advance in Eastern Italy in WWII reads like a string of Cambrai battles, but where the allies had learned all the correct offensive lessons, and the Germans had forgotton their defensive lessons. Or is it just the case of the side with unlimited resources always wins ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 5 February , 2019 Share Posted 5 February , 2019 Hello! This is one of the best threads I´ve ever read about the battle of Cambrai! Chapeau!!!!! But I´ve got stil one question. Does anyone know, which tank did kill the german Major Hofmeister? I assume it was one of the tanks of D-Bataillon, right? Thanks a lot in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 6 February , 2019 Share Posted 6 February , 2019 The attack on the east of the village was a mix of D and E Battalions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 6 February , 2019 Share Posted 6 February , 2019 Hello delta! Thanks a lot. But I assume, it´s not clear, which tank shot at Major Hofmeister, isn´t it? By the way, what´s, in yozur opinion, is the best book about Cambrai ´17? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delta Posted 6 February , 2019 Share Posted 6 February , 2019 There is, sadly, no such evidence. As for the best book about Cambrai, it depends on your "angle". From a generic point of view, I believe that I believe that Dr Bryn Hammond's book "Canbrai 1917 - the myths of the First Tank Battle" (published 2008) is first rate. For detailed analysis of tanks actions, then "Following the Tanks: Cambrai 20 November - 7 December 1917" (published 1998) by Jean-Luc Gibot and Philippe Gorczynski is the best. It is however rarely available to buy but Philippe is working on an update There is another in the pipeline but, a little way off. Dr Tim Gale is working on Volume 3 of a new Tank Corps history which I will be very interested to read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 7 February , 2019 Share Posted 7 February , 2019 Great infos! Thanks a lot! I´m interested in detailed military operations a nd battle orders. I´ve got a lot of sources in german books, but I´d like to read something from the english view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Open Bolt Posted 7 February , 2019 Share Posted 7 February , 2019 On 30/05/2005 at 08:35, Robert Dunlop said: This photo is taken from the cemetery looking back towards the village. What a shame Robert's photographs were in the previous version of the forum, it would be good to see them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Dunlop Posted 7 February , 2019 Share Posted 7 February , 2019 I'm pretty sure I still have the photos. Will check and update. Robert Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Prussian Posted 7 February , 2019 Share Posted 7 February , 2019 Hello! That would be great, mate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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