Wipers Times

[martin_sole]

Maybe that was the homage to .R.C. Sheriff?

Watched it again with the current Mrs Sole and enjoyed it more on the second run.

The current Mrs Sole loved it.

Why can' they get anyone who looks vaguely like Churchill to play Churchill? Same with the BBC4 doc - some thin lipped ginger fella.

[Steven Broomfield]

Enjoyed it but found some of the dialogue rather stilted which reminded me of "Journey's End" minus the Cheer-ho

Which possibly says a lot for its accuracy.

Watched it again with the current Mrs Sole and enjoyed it more on the second run.

The current Mrs Sole loved it.

Is there any consensus from the legion of earlier Mrs Soles?

[KGB]

R.C Sherriff had quite a short war - 1917 with the East Surreys. He only took to writing as a catharsis.

[IanA]

Just watched it and enjoyed it.

[Fattyowls]

I've just watched it all the way through on catchup and I loved it. I'm quite glad that I had read all the posts in this thread before hand, it really enhanced it.

[Le_Treport]

+1 for a positive review from me. Did wonder why Enoch Powell kept making an appearance as the blustering Howden!

[Mark Hone]

As mentioned before I managed to enjoy the programme and suspend disbelief despite noticing the odd gaffe. At least they got the basic chronology of the war right, unlike 'Downton Abbey'. I did wonder at Pearson appearing to have no idea who Churchill was, even when he was identified by name. Had he been living in a cave before the war when Churchill was e.g. a very high profile Home Secretary?

[Fattyowls]

.... I did wonder at Pearson appearing to have no idea who Churchill was, even when he was identified by name. Had he been living in a cave before the war when Churchill was e.g. a very high profile Home Secretary?

Fair point Mark, particuarly given Churchill's talent for self-promotion and capacity for Boys' Own adventures; I mean, how many Boer prison camps has Theresa May escaped from? However I tried to remember who was the last but one Home Secretary and I suddenly realised I couldn't. Worse still some of my younger friends probably don't know who the Home Secretary is, or for that matter what a Home Secretary is, and none as far as I know live in caves (except perhaps when they go to Glastonbury). I'll make a point of checking (about their reconition of the Home Secretary, not the cave dwelling).

I was also trying to think of an actor who has portrayed Churchill who was recognisable as him; Albert Finney is the one who sticks in my mind; he didn't exactly look like him but had the mannerisms.

I was also intrigued by the discussion above about cliched characters. Perhaps in a hour and a half it is only possible to develop the two main characters, after which it is necessary to use what used to be called 'types' who are instantly recognisable to most of the audience to move the narrative along. If you have the time of say a production like Band of Brothers then you can flesh out the characters much more. I seem to remember the movie Memphis Belle making a point of spelling out the cliches when introducing the crew at the outset.

As I said above, I got a lot more out of seeing 'The Wipers Times' having read this thread beforehand. Thanks to all.

Pete.

[treetop]

Actors - brilliant

Production Design - brilliant

Lighting and cinematography - brilliant

Direction - brilliant (the Music Hall scenes were very well done)

but....the script was just a bit rubbish IMHO. All the characters were 2-dimensional and a bit too cliched

Smartarse public school subaltern - check

Bluff NCO with regional accent - check

Dim but endearing young lad - check

Spluttering Colonel Blimp - check

I have a similar view Martin, overall it was an enjoyable enough programme but I do wish we could see less of the cliched sterotypes portrayed in such programmes. That pompous ADC will have existed somewhere but I doubt the mag could have been continued at all without tacit approval from the high command. As we know from WW2 the officers in POW camps often encouraged light hearted humour and acting to lift the spirits of all ranks.

[Ewan Carmichael]

I guess the old saying is very relevant here. You can't please all the people all the people all the time, and to be fair, who would want to? Overall I thoroughly enjoyed the programme and as someone mentioned earlier in the thread, I hope it sets a bench mark for other productions in the next few years as the centenary's loom.

One reason why I joined this forum was because until recently it hadn't occurred to me that I knew little or nothing about the Great War. I've grown up with stories about the 2nd World War in books and films and TV shows etc, but they must outnumber similar presentations about the Great War by at least ten to one, so any programme or film telling us about the First World War of the 20th century has to be a bonus.

I'll also echo the sentiments suggesting that Ian Hislop write a documentary about the subject, but at the same time I'd offer him a big thank you for showing me something that before I'd seen the programme didn't even know existed.

[better ole]

It seems that we, mostly, enjoyed the 'Wipers Times', not too many gripes (we must be slipping). I thought it was well written and pretty well acted, Ben Chaplin and Michael Palin were excellent.

It had me going to the book shelf to read more about the publication and it's creators.

Well done Ian Hislop and team.

[DavidMillichope]

A question about the original printing press that was discovered in the Belgian shed.

The script was very explicit that this was an 'Arab' produced by Josiah Wade and manufactured in Halifax. I'm researching Halifax's experience in the Great War and got very excited that a locally produced machine might have been the original press for such an iconic institution as the Wipers Times. Does anyone have any information on this ? Can the actual model be substantiated?

Unfortunately I may be heading for disappointment here because Tim Honnor on http://scottishprintarchive.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Wipers-Times-article-v2b.pdf was apparently the supplier of the prop used by the BBC. He suggests that the original requirement of the script was for a 'Liberty' press (which presumably is not an 'Arab' ).

Any further enlightenment ?

Loved the programme BTW. It was refreshing for a WW1 drama to get away from the 'dead soldier syndrome' and focus on some 'living experiences'.

[Andrew Upton]

Unfortunately I may be heading for disappointment here because Tim Honnor on http://scottishprintarchive.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/05/Wipers-Times-article-v2b.pdf was apparently the supplier of the prop used by the BBC. He suggests that the original requirement of the script was for a 'Liberty' press (which presumably is not an 'Arab' ).

"It transpired that it was only surmise by the BBC that the "Wipers Times" had been printed by a Liberty Press. Thus I suggested that the script be changed to say "Arab" rather than "Liberty" – as someone watching the documentary would recognize that the Arab was slightly different to the Liberty, and would be bound to ring the BBC and complain!"

[keithfazzani]

"It transpired that it was only surmise by the BBC that the "Wipers Times" had been printed by a Liberty Press. Thus I suggested that the script be changed to say "Arab" rather than "Liberty" – as someone watching the documentary would recognize that the Arab was slightly different to the Liberty, and would be bound to ring the BBC and complain!"

Complain - do you mean that there is a printing press forum who get upset about minuscule faults in programmes about printing presses?

[daggers]

I have just seen BBC 24 hour news, which had Allan Mallinson talking about obituaries of the founders of the Wipers Times which he had researched and written for today's Times newspaper.

D

[DavidMillichope]

Andrew Upton

Posted Today, 04:51 PM

DavidMillichope, on 21 Sept 2013 - 2:22 PM, said:

Unfortunately I may be heading for disappointment here because Tim Honnor on http://scottishprint...article-v2b.pdf was apparently the supplier of the prop used by the BBC. He suggests that the original requirement of the script was for a 'Liberty' press (which presumably is not an 'Arab' ).

"It transpired that it was only surmise by the BBC that the "Wipers Times" had been printed by a Liberty Press. Thus I suggested that the script be changed to say "Arab" rather than "Liberty" – as someone watching the documentary would recognize that the Arab was slightly different to the Liberty, and would be bound to ring the BBC and complain!"

Thanks Andrew but there's still a niggle in my mind. Is Tim Honnor also surmising by suggesting an 'Arab'? I suspect not ( and hope not) but he doesn't seem to make this clear.

[WilliamRev]

I have just got around to watching this, and I have to say that it is ages since I watched something so enjoyable. All sorts of little uniform and other details looked well thought-out, and I'm sure were correct. I greatly appreciated the lack of visual - cliches: as they went over-the-top they were not all instantly mown down by machine-gun fire, we didn't see dozens of young lads being executed for cowardice etc. etc.

The humour of the war, amidst the pain and sheer squalidness, shone through the programme, and I particularly appreciated the depiction of the emptiness at the end of the war - the armistice brought as much perplexity as celebration, and I remember my grandfather telling me about the difficulties ex-soldiers had in getting civilian jobs, and how talking about the war was regarded as tasteless.

So..... a truly wonderful programme.

[i have just read the early part of this thread, and for some reason which is beyond me, find that it is necessary for me to declare that I am a bearded ex public-schoolboy ]

William

[Andrew Upton]

Thanks Andrew but there's still a niggle in my mind. Is Tim Honnor also surmising by suggesting an 'Arab'? I suspect not ( and hope not) but he doesn't seem to make this clear.

I'm not sure what you mean - I think the BBC suspected it to be one sort, they couldn't get a working example of that type, they took the next best thing, and the person supplying it made sure they changed the script to reflect that alteration...

[martin_sole]

I am amazed that nobody has commented on the scene where the printing press is found. The brickwork is clearly English bond rather than the Flemish or Monk bond used by European bricklayers of the 18th Century. Why oh why can't the boffins at the BBC get these crucial details correct?

Unless the producers can supply documentary evidence of English bond being used in Ypres, I for one will be demanding a refund on my licence fee.

[Fattyowls]

Martin, your fastidious quest for historical masonry accuracy is an inspiration to us all; perhaps the BBC will refund four times your licence fee just to cover the inconvenience? Would you care to comment on the sand proportion of the mortar?

[Gunboat]

I am amazed that nobody has commented on the scene where the printing press is found. The brickwork is clearly English bond rather than the Flemish or Monk bond used by European bricklayers of the 18th Century. Why oh why can't the boffins at the BBC get these crucial details correct?

Unless the producers can supply documentary evidence of English bond being used in Ypres, I for one will be demanding a refund on my licence fee.

I'm surprised you were so slow off the mark! The Flemish and/or Monk Bond ananomly - is soooo last week!

Those of us in the super pendantoc subforum are already poo pooing the fact that in one of the over the top scenes the way the sunlight is reflecting on the third bayonet on the left is indicative of the sun being in the west of the sky at the time of the shot - given the known position at the time this would've meant our men were about to attack the British Lines! Such sloppiness is intolerable!

[cdr]

recorded this on the digibox. I liked it very much

Were they in one of the later scenes buying Beer from a Belgian monk (West Vleteren ? )

Carl

[Fattyowls]

I'm surprised you were so slow off the mark! The Flemish and/or Monk Bond ananomly - is soooo last week!

Those of us in the super pendantoc subforum are already poo pooing the fact that in one of the over the top scenes the way the sunlight is reflecting on the third bayonet on the left is indicative of the sun being in the west of the sky at the time of the shot - given the known position at the time this would've meant our men were about to attack the British Lines! Such sloppiness is intolerable!

Gunboat, I hadn't noticed that. It's ruined my whole enjoyment of the programme. BBC management heads should roll (again).

Equally I think it is not pedantry that the subforum exhibits but fastidiousness, it's less pejorative.

[Steven Broomfield]

Equally I think it is not pedantry that the subforum exhibits but fastidiousness, it's less pejorative.

I'm glad you said that. I was appalled (as I'm sure were many people, too shy to comment) to hear a British officer pronounce "harassing" with the emphasis on the second syllable.

Completely ruined the whole thing for me.

[Fattyowls]

I'm glad you said that. I was appalled (as I'm sure were many people, too shy to comment) to hear a British officer pronounce "harassing" with the emphasis on the second syllable.

Completely ruined the whole thing for me.

To create a bit of balance I did like the homage to Joel Gray's Oscar winning performance in Cabaret with the face paint during the music hall scenes (genuinely, although I'm not going to make a habit of it). But as you say such niceties are lost in the tidal wave of historical inaccuraces that should see the whole BBC management team on jankers at the very least....I just wish I was fastidious about my spelling.