trajan Posted 16 February , 2015 Share Posted 16 February , 2015 1909 mark.JPG ... there is that large 'D' - Australian Department of Defence? Any thoughts on that stamp / marking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lancashire Fusilier Posted 16 February , 2015 Share Posted 16 February , 2015 Any thoughts on that stamp / marking? Trajan, The capital ' D ' above the Broad Arrow mark, as in your photograph, is for the Defence Department, Commonwealth of Australia, post 1911. Other Australian marks were :- The Broad Arrow within the capital ' D ' - Australia, Land Service mark. The Broad Arrow between 2 capital Ds ( D ^ D ) - Defence Department, Commonwealth of Australia, from 1920. Regards, LF Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 February , 2015 Share Posted 17 February , 2015 Trajan, The capital ' D ' above the Broad Arrow mark, as in your photograph, is for the Defence Department, Commonwealth of Australia, post 1911. Thanks LF! I had a feeling it might have been something like that but I only knew of the other variants as found on bayonet pommels, etc. Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 February , 2015 Share Posted 19 February , 2015 I am waiting to see a photo of the LH ricasso which shows the date (month/year) of manufacture and maker. I need to be able to cross reference with my database ... One of the things that did intrigue me about these Sanderson 12/09's is the style of stamp used for the '09' part - this is quite different from what was used by Sanderson in March 1909 - see this HQ example: http://www.collectorssource.com/bayonets-1/pattern-1907-hooked-quillon-bayonet-ba443.html(and yours for only $1,695.00...). SS, or others, any comments? Same inspector marks as the 12/09 series... Also, while I am at it, SS and others, if you haven't spotted it, have a look at this one - a 7/10 Sanderson HQ, with SOS mark, nice brown scabbard, and Australian markings - and Slazenger grips and a WW2 frog, yours for a cool $1,495.00... Check out: http://www.collectorssource.com/bayonets-1/pattern-1907-hooked-quillon-bayonet-australian-6231.htmldifferent inspector marks - looks like X5 moved on! BTW, I found this page during a quick search for Sanderson dated ricassos before toddling off to work, so there may be others on that site... Got to dash and get ready to go now... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 19 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 19 February , 2015 Tut-Tut, you know we aren't allowed to comment on items that are being offered for sale on various websites. That's right, so it is written ... (so it shall be done) So in regard to the above statement I shall not be saying anything ... not a thing. But Australians did use R for Refurb and 46 for the year 1946, you do the Math. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 19 February , 2015 Share Posted 19 February , 2015 Tut-Tut, you know we aren't allowed to comment on items that are being offered for sale on various websites. That's right, so it is written ... (so it shall be done) Whooops-a-daisy! However, I hope that you got the necessary data? That was the thing on my mind when I saw them... And I trust the MODS will allow an innocent error here as it was in the course of scholarship... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 Hi all Given the popularity of this thread I thought I would post up some photos of two more Lithgows (1916 and 1917) which have found their way into my collection. Both are nicely battered and "authentic" looking - just the way I like them. The first is marked to 4MD (South Australia) and the second is marked 2MD (NSW). Cheers, Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 1917 - South Australia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 1916 - New South Wales Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 For the sake of completeness I should note that the NSW version has been refurbished at some point and the blade has been blued, the SA one has likely had its grips either replaced or the originals were stamped, and one of the scabbards is clearly post-WW1, but I find thats pretty typical with Lithgows and Australian bayonets in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 21 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2015 Yes very 'authentic' looking, both very well used bayonets, probably in both wars. And all the serial numbers are correct for the date of manufacture shown. (The rifle serial numbers on the pommel, and the Military District inventory numbers on the guard) Any markings on that figured end round-stud scabbard.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 Hi S>S Funny you should ask as I wasn't quite sure what to make of the scabbard markings. The chape has a clear "MA" marking, and the reverse of the leather body has the following markings: Broad Arrow - "A.C." - crown with inspector mark - "09" - conjoined arrow "sold out of service" marking. To me that would suggest that the leather is pre-WW1 vintage (09?) which was reused with later chap and locket added. Does that sound feasible? Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 21 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2015 That would definitely be a British made scabbard with those markings along the seam. What about on that locket, any markings near the staple. Chape MA = Lithgow Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 Theres an inspector marking near the staple but no MA - seems like a bit of a strange conglomeration of parts really... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 21 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2015 Not strange at all for equipment that stayed in use, repairs and refurbishment being part and parcel of everyday service life for this kind of military kit. Can you be more specific with your inspector mark on the locket. Wouldn't happen to be Birmingham italic B by any chance.? Is it a crowned mark.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 See: http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=185724&page=3#entry2229907for an Australian hookie with Slazenger 1945 and 1946 grips... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 21 February , 2015 Share Posted 21 February , 2015 Hi S>S, its a bit difficult to make out but here is a close up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 21 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 21 February , 2015 Nice clear set of stampings on that British leather.! My interest in your locket stems from this thread HERE (post #43 on) Some of those round-studs are possibly WW1. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 22 February , 2015 Share Posted 22 February , 2015 Here are my offerings - although only one is really relevant here (but the other three might serve as comparative examples) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2015 Nice Chris.! Here's some useless information ... that NSW inventory number is very early 1918. May be vaguely helpful to reference that rifle serial on pommel against.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 22 February , 2015 Share Posted 22 February , 2015 Nice bayonet Chris, thanks for posting. And S>S I love how you know the range of serial numbers so well - tom this thread and my own collection I'm starting to get a rough sense for what an appropriate range would be for a specific date and state, but you seem to be pretty much fully dialled in on this! Re the scabbard - thats very interesting. Is there anything in the marks Ive described that would suggest the body / locket combination may be ww1 vintage, despite the round stud? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 February , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 February , 2015 I just add all the serials and dates that I see to the list. It doesn't take long to start to see the patterns emerge. I call it 'insurance' in a way, as the 'odd ones' soon stand out.! With the scabbard I just need to see what those stamps are on the locket, both sides near the staple. Don't know much about them yet, just that something is going on there. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 22 February , 2015 Share Posted 22 February , 2015 Here are my offerings - although only one is really relevant here (but the other three might serve as comparative examples) That black-painted locket - I have seen a few of those around and have some as 'spares'... Are they often found with Australian bayonets? That is to say, an Australian fashion? I know there have been posts on the matter of painting the metal bits of scabbard but just wondered if these black-painted ones are more likely than not to be Aussie... I just add all the serials and dates that I see to the list. It doesn't take long to start to see the patterns emerge. I call it 'insurance' in a way, as the 'odd ones' soon stand out.! With the scabbard I just need to see what those stamps are on the locket, both sides near the staple. Don't know much about them yet, just that something is going on there. Cheers, S>S Do you have any plans for publishing this data? It would help us all! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 So, here you go, the second Australian HQ bayonet I have turned down so far this year, and at that a Lithgow... Shown here for reference purposes and for SS's data-bank... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2015 After doing some manipulation of that last image I think I make the serial number as being 32753 ... and most likely issued to NSW servicemen (ie.2MD) This would make it issued very late in 1914, right 'in the slot' for being a "Gallipoli bayonet".! So I think you may have missed a trick here Trajan, too bad. And despite the apparent corrosion, the very even peppering over the entire item I believe just adds to the character. Still a desirable example IMHO. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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