collectorsguide Posted 15 October , 2013 Share Posted 15 October , 2013 PS, The bolts on this bayonet are reversed like Joe's on page 1 and look like they have never been removed.best w, Howard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 15 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 15 October , 2013 Howard, thanks for the info and it is certainly a New South Wales issue. The Wilkinson and Sanderson '09 vintage are decidedly common with Aust markings. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 15 October , 2013 Share Posted 15 October , 2013 Thought I had added my bayonets details to this Exclelant t thread. I have a non hookie 1915 Lithgow example. 3MD 34383. 211 on pommel. On upper blade (ricasso?) two stars with a capital A enclosed, a horizontal y and Lithgow shield. On the other side Lithgow shield above 1915 above word Lithgow. Scabbard has remains of brown finished leather never blackened, a stamp MA below round web stud. When did tear drop change to round and is MA (made in Austraia) indicative of WW2? Also have complete relic hookie from field at Pozieres Somme where Aussies fought ( near village cemetery). Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 15 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 15 October , 2013 Sounds like a nice bayonet TT, the 1915 dated Lithgows are a little scarcer than most. The 3MD is Victorian issue and scabbard is later period probably WW2. They changed over to the MA marking for Lithgow during the interwar period (in the late 20s I believe) Finding relic kit in the field must be a moving experience. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromelles Posted 20 October , 2013 Share Posted 20 October , 2013 The AUSTRALIA marking stamped into the grips is the US import mark which shows that it was imported into America according to their Gov't regulations. This is commonly seen on Australian used P1907 bayonets, as the bulk of the SMLE rifles and bayonets were sent to the US when it was finally surplused. Cheers, S>S Hi S>S, I've never heard of this before, I have several bayonets with the AUSTRALIA stamp as well as bill hooks & entrenching tools all found in country SA and have always assumed (my first mistake ) it was done here, like much of the leather equipment also marked with AUSTRALIA. Is there any definite evidence of it being a US applied marking? If it is so then shouldn't there be NEW ZEALAND - BRITAIN - INDIA - CANADA etc marked bayonets also? Maybe there are, but I've never seen one. I was also very much interested in your opinion of the SoS stamps on British supplied bayonets, and find myself asking are there any period Lithgow manufactured bayonets with the SoS markings (I don't ever remember seeing any), if not it would certainly strengthen the argument for this assumption. What a fascinating subject, thanks for starting it. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
calibre792x57.y Posted 20 October , 2013 Share Posted 20 October , 2013 I don't know about WW1 bayonets but weapons sold off to the USA after WW2 are marked 'England',- Commonly seen on Wilkinson Fighting Knives. - SW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 20 October , 2013 Share Posted 20 October , 2013 Hi S>S, I've never heard of this before, I have several bayonets with the AUSTRALIA stamp as well as bill hooks & entrenching tools all found in country SA and have always assumed (my first mistake ) it was done here, like much of the leather equipment also marked with AUSTRALIA. Is there any definite evidence of it being a US applied marking? If it is so then shouldn't there be NEW ZEALAND - BRITAIN - INDIA - CANADA etc marked bayonets also? Maybe there are, but I've never seen one. I was also very much interested in your opinion of the SoS stamps on British supplied bayonets, and find myself asking are there any period Lithgow manufactured bayonets with the SoS markings (I don't ever remember seeing any), if not it would certainly strengthen the argument for this assumption. What a fascinating subject, thanks for starting it. Dan Not US applied necessarily but US regulations required that the country of origin be marked for importation. This is also frequently found on firearms imported into the US between (I do not know the exact dates)the end of WWII and the 1968. After 1968 an importer's stamp was required on firearms indicating which company had imported it. So very large numbers of Enfield No1, No4 and No5 rifles imported into the US in this period have ENGLAND stamped on either the barrel knox form or the wrist. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fromelles Posted 20 October , 2013 Share Posted 20 October , 2013 Not really so concerned whether it was actually stamped in the US or Australia, but more of whether it was actually stamped because of the US importation regulations. I don't doubt the US requirements, but is this an example or it? Other than Australia, are there other examples of 'country of origin' stamps on '07 bayonets in this manner, or were only Australian bayonets imported into the US after WWII? I don't have an opinion either way just wanting to know the facts of the matter. Dan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4thGordons Posted 20 October , 2013 Share Posted 20 October , 2013 In terms of bayonets I have only ever personally seen "AUSTRALIA". I have also seen NOS bayonet handle wood, and rifle fore-ends for sale in the US which were so stamped. As noted I own a number of rifles with the stamping ENGLAND on them. Chris Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 21 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 21 October , 2013 Surplussed bayonets were also stamped with the word ENGLAND. Shown below, a little blurry but a P1903 bayonet stamped on the tang with country of origin. Also have never seen a Lithgow made bayonet stamped with the British "sold out of service" conjoined arrows mark, which does make complete sense, but still. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 28 October , 2013 Share Posted 28 October , 2013 Hi, Having previously had no Aussie bayonets, I acquired 2 on the same day a week ago! The details are as follows: Jan (1) 12 EFD with hook removed. D mark with small arrow on the pommel; struck out numeral (unreadable) followed by 81 on other side of pommel. Crossguard has 2ND MD 25253 (last 4 numerals clear, the first 2 could only be an 8 or 9 otherwise, but I think it is a 2). Bayonet also has an Orange arsenal 51- R refurbish mark, the grips are 51 SLAZ. 1919 Lithgow. A 40866 on the pommel, 3 MD 69824 on the crossguard. No other marks. Do these serials fit the series? Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 28 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 28 October , 2013 I will check my database listing when I get a chance. My main computer currently has "access issues" so I can't just go and look. Will get back to you.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 30 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2013 Having previously had no Aussie bayonets, I acquired 2 on the same day a week ago! The details are as follows: Jan (1) 12 EFD with hook removed. D mark with small arrow on the pommel; struck out numeral (unreadable) followed by 81 on other side of pommel. Crossguard has 2ND MD 25253 1919 Lithgow. A 40866 on the pommel, 3 MD 69824 on the crossguard. No other marks. Do these serials fit the series? Tony, the 1919 Lithgow has as you would expect, a post-war Victorian Military District serial which dates to around about 1920. The 1912 Enfield on the other hand, has a pre-war marking to New South Wales, which I believe was applied in Australia sometime mid-1912. The serial will definitely be 25253 as others I have seen are within this range. A lot of 1911 made Enfield bayonets were shipped out at this time. Your markings are particularly interesting though as they extend the time period of marking into 1912 which is new to me. So thanks for posting.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
msdt Posted 30 October , 2013 Share Posted 30 October , 2013 Thanks Shipping Steel. What is the highest number you have seen for NSW (2MD)? Wonder how these 2 bayonets got to the UK??? Wish they could talk! Cheers, Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 30 October , 2013 Author Share Posted 30 October , 2013 The example shown in post #10 is a fairly high numbered serial for 2MD being 73395. You won't see many higher than that from memory. They sound like bayonets that ended up getting sold on as surplus (especially with the very late ie.1951 refurbish date) going via the US. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboywizard Posted 5 May , 2014 Share Posted 5 May , 2014 Hi guys,i think i have an English made,Australian used 1912 manafacture, i believe its military district 2 N.S.W..any further help would be great thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboywizard Posted 5 May , 2014 Share Posted 5 May , 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 May , 2014 Share Posted 5 May , 2014 Welcome bboywizard! Hang on to that rare beauty! These P.1907's with the quillon intact are not quite as rare as hen's teeth, but not far from it! I'll check when I get back home tonight, but S>S> is the man for Aussie bayonets and their markings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 May , 2014 Share Posted 5 May , 2014 S?S? is bound to come online soon, but the EFD indicates Enfield made and the D-arrow-D is for Department of Defence as is the D with the arrow inside it. I'll let SS answer your question on its military district as that is his field! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboywizard Posted 5 May , 2014 Share Posted 5 May , 2014 Thanks Trajan..i know a little about the markings..its just this particular year is a strange one for markings as pointed out earlier in the thread....i paid way to much for it,but i just had to have it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 May , 2014 Share Posted 5 May , 2014 the DD markings are, IIRC, certainly odd given that this is an intact hookie. But it is not my field and SS will come along at some point and explain to the rest of us. And whatever you paid for it you have a nice investment for any grandchildren or great nephews and nieces! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 May , 2014 Share Posted 6 May , 2014 Bboywizard, I'm very surprised SS hasn't commented yet - he is awake down in the southern hemisphere as I read a post of his on another forum only 20 or so minutes ago! You indicate that you have gone through this thread, which I hadn't bothered to do as SS is your man for these, but I have just done so and see in several posts, but most especially no. 1854009 references to serial numbers etc on the crossguard or pommel - you don't show any of these, so does yours have them? In other words, why do you think it is NSW? TTFN, Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboywizard Posted 6 May , 2014 Share Posted 6 May , 2014 No numbers at all mate..i was going on the 2 above the broadarrow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 May , 2014 Share Posted 6 May , 2014 Aha... Well, we'll just have to wait until SS comes back to the playground! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 7 May , 2014 Author Share Posted 7 May , 2014 Hi guys,i think i have an English made,Australian used 1912 manafacture, i believe its military district 2 N.S.W..any further help would be great thanks That's a nice looking bayonet you have there ... and a very interesting example to boot. There always has to be an exception that pops up to confuse things, and this is one of those.! It would have been sent out in a batch of late 1911, early 1912 Enfield production bayonets that were shipped to New South Wales. I have others similar dated recorded in my database. These other examples are all marked with the 2MD serial numbers which began to be applied in the years shortly before the war. For some reason this one does seem to have missed out. The D^D marking is usually recognised as an interwar period marking so it is extremely unusual to be seeing this marking on a hookie. But there you go, it must have surfaced again later on. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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