trajan Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Well, it was the fourth Australian-marked HQ to turn up here in the past 6 months, although it is the only Lithgow so far... They are getting a bit like No. 9 buses... Now, if it was an unmodified 71/84... Back on topic - I don't mind a bit of patina, but the price being asked for one in this condition was too much IMHO (and certainly not worth the risk of domestic bliss!!!)... So, I'll take a leaf out of your book, SS: if I don't look around there is bound to be a better one that comes up one day! And seriously, I really do have no regrets about not buying it - it will make somebody elsewhere much happier than it would me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboywizard Posted 16 March , 2015 Share Posted 16 March , 2015 Sanderson 09 N.S.W 1035 more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 16 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 16 March , 2015 That's a nice early one for NSW ... any chance of getting a close-up view of the date and maker's marking.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 16 March , 2015 Share Posted 16 March , 2015 Super bayonet - thanks for posting those shots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 March , 2015 Share Posted 16 March , 2015 It is indeed a nice one and with that pattern of corrosion on pommel and crossguard but a brighter blade suggesting it may have been stored in a scabbard for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboywizard Posted 16 March , 2015 Share Posted 16 March , 2015 sorry its a ****** to get the pic size small ..i havent seen a lower NSW number before this one..the story behind this one..its from a small country town from the grandson of a Gallipoli veteran and was apparently he bought it back from there...but stories are always hard to prove Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 16 March , 2015 Share Posted 16 March , 2015 Well, it's clear enough for SS to hoard in his secret database !!! I know what you mean about the 'story' - you lack the proof but you do have the balance of probabilities factor. I face the same sort of thing here, with 4 bayonets that are marked to units that were involved at Gallipoli, but I can't prove that any were. On the other hand, as these were all bought in Turkey, that tips the balance of probabilities nicely! Some other unit-marked Turkish buys, though, are of units NOT at Gallipoli, although a Navy-marked one could just be... As for the rest, well, who knows? The dates fit but that's just about it! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboywizard Posted 17 March , 2015 Share Posted 17 March , 2015 Just found the number on the scabbard and its a match, NSW 1035, but the scabbard is marked EFD Enfield..pretty happy with this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 March , 2015 Share Posted 17 March , 2015 Just found the number on the scabbard and its a match, NSW 1035, but the scabbard is marked EFD Enfield..pretty happy with this one I would be too! And I would certainly go with the bring-back theory in that case! I have exactly one P.1907 with a scabbard marching the bayonet, and unlike several other types of non-GB bayonet, it is not that common to find them together... Any chance of the rest of us seeing that scabbard? Is the marking on the top of the locket? Can you see the year mark on the scabbard? Best, Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboywizard Posted 17 March , 2015 Share Posted 17 March , 2015 Scabbard scabbard markings.... 09 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 March , 2015 Share Posted 17 March , 2015 Excellent photograph! Looks to me like a Crowned Enfield Inspector stamp over an '09' date, so a nice all-matching set by the look of things! Not certain what the 'B' on the other side of the seam is for - SS might know as he seems to have spent a while looking at and accumulating data on bayonet scabbards as well as bayonets... What is interesting, though, is that Sold out of Service' mark on the scabbard - the star-shaped mark above the broad arrow and the EFD mark. There isn't one on the other side of the bayonet pommel is there? The thing is that quite a few of these intact HQ bayonets do have this mark, and one of mine has the mark on the ricasso... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bboywizard Posted 17 March , 2015 Share Posted 17 March , 2015 "There isn't one on the other side of the bayonet pommel is there?" yeah there is mate..its just hard to upload as all my pics are huge...also came across a Wilkinson NSW 591, unfortunately its not for sale http://www.lawranceordnance.com/information/bayonets/australian/wilkinson_04_09.php Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 March , 2015 Share Posted 17 March , 2015 That IS a nice one! And again a 'Sold out of service' mark! I think that SS wrote something about these somewhere on this thread - that they indicated bayonets sold to the various Australian territories from GB? Can't do a search for it right now as I have to get on with work, but SS will be along in a few hours and will doubtless comment/enlighten you/us then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 17 March , 2015 Share Posted 17 March , 2015 Lovely bayonet and scabbard, can't beat a matching set (Especially with such a low number!). Scabbard looks in great condition too. Trajan - you can see the SOS mark on the third photo at the top if you zoom in. And yes the SOS mark together with the NSW mark shows the bayonet is a British HQ sold to Australia pre-WW1. The commentary from S>S is at the start of this thread. Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 17 March , 2015 Share Posted 17 March , 2015 Thanks for the tip, JS - I never would have spotted it without a careful look! Also, yes, pages 1-2, for the discussion on SOS marks - thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 21 March , 2015 Share Posted 21 March , 2015 Here is a nice Queensland marked HQR P07 bayonet that I picked up recently, which is the Type 2 as per the system set out by S>S at the start of this thread. I was very happy to find it given that they seem to be a little more difficult to find than the Type 1 bayonets and some of the later D arrow marked ones. Also nice that it is made by Chapman, has some lovely crisp markings and came with a nice small stud scabbard. I also love the patina on the grips - its clearly seen some good service. Interestingly the SOS markings appear on the ricasso and not the pommel. Firstly, a shot with a couple of Queensland Type 1's And a close-up of the markings on the cross guard and ricasso And the other side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 21 March , 2015 Share Posted 21 March , 2015 That is indeed a nice Chapman! I have a HQ EFD which went south to Australia and which also has the SOS on the ricasso, so nice to know that there are others around! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2015 That's a very interesting bayonet J, it shows the normal Queensland markings but didn't come through the 'regular' pre-war channels, as seen on most other examples. This is probably best shown by that improvised SOS mark on the ricasso that utilises the existing Broad Arrow stamp. This arrangement is not normally seen on these. There have been a few of these irregular SOS marked types cropping up lately, and these all seem to be occurring around about that 1912 dated period, so interesting. The thing with your example is that the 1MD serial is also "out of line" ... meaning it doesn't fit in with that bayonet date ... your serial is more from that late 1914 period. So that then raises the question of where it actually came from. It could have been supplied from British stocks somewhere along the way and then stamped in theatre. Apart from that yours has obviously seen some service, being HQR and with the blade having been blued, most likely refurbished and standardised for WW2 service. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 22 March , 2015 Share Posted 22 March , 2015 Hi S>S, thanks for the analysis, its interesting to know that its a late-1914 marking. I can only assume that it was pushed into service due to the massive influx of Australian volunteers etc in that period (i.e. after the Type 1 bayonets had been fully allocated). Out of interest do you have any sense for when the original Type 1's were actually marked? The two Queensland versions in my collection are marked "Q3299" and "Q2952". And yes, as you say, the bayonet was clearly refurbed following WW1 for further service (i.e. when it was blued etc). And Trajan - nice to know there are other ricasso SOS markings out there! Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 22 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 22 March , 2015 Out of interest do you have any sense for when the original Type 1's were actually marked? The two Queensland versions in my collection are marked "Q3299" and "Q2952". Right across the board, the first P1907's marked to the States/Military Districts are seemingly all bearing mid to late 1909 manufacture dates. (No WA yet seen) So I am thinking that this first batch were all stamped sometime during 1910. I don't think I have your Q3299 yet, my guess a 1909, but what month and maker.? Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 22 March , 2015 Share Posted 22 March , 2015 Interesting. So a bit of a gap between them and the Type 2s then (which makes sense). Correct - its a Wilkinson 12 '09. I'll put up some close up photos soon. Its the middle bayonet in the shot above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 25 March , 2015 Share Posted 25 March , 2015 And here is the Q3299, as requested. Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 March , 2015 Share Posted 25 March , 2015 Interesting to see that two of the ones you showed earlier (including this one) have the 'Australia' marked grips - there was quite an argey-bargey going on about these earlier - so, what is the current thinking? FWIW, and probably very little, I have never seen one of those over here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 25 March , 2015 Share Posted 25 March , 2015 My understanding is that they were stamped in connection with their "sale" to the US (ie post WW2). I dont know much more than this, but haven't really focussed on it as its a bit tangential to my main interest in the bayonets. It does seem pretty common on these bayonets however. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 26 March , 2015 Share Posted 26 March , 2015 Here is a 1916 Lithgow that I picked up recently with a NSW marking on the crossguard (this seems to have been stamped over another marking but i can't make out the original marking). My guess is that the marking is mid-1917, perhaps S>S can confirm whether I'm in the ballpark with that estimate... As usual the blade has been blued post-WW1 but the bayonet is otherwise in nice condition. Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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