Soldiers KIA in Ireland

[PRC]

I see Richard Edward Larter gets a mention earlier in this thread as an example of a non-com. His body was returned to the UK and is buried in the churchyard of a small village near where I live. (Incidentally he is now on the Commonwealth War Graves Commission web-site)

Richard who lost his life in Ireland and Joseph who was Killed in France by Moominpappa06, on Flickr

It was a bit of a tangled web to track down the circumstances of his death, not helped by his name variously appearing as Latter or Letter.

“Pte Latter of the MGC, stationed at Ballyvonaire, while out unarmed was shot dead at 7 p.m on Sun, near Doneraile, by a number of armed men – July 12, 1921 Independent”

(Doneraile is stated to be about 3 miles west of the camp at Buttevant.)

http://www.cairogang.com/soldiers-killed/larter/larter.html

(Looking at the map I think that should be east!)

This report in the Northern Advocate, a New Zealand newspaper, refers to a Private “Letter” who was shot dead at Doneraile while walking unarmed on the eve of the truce.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=NA19210713.2.33

This site attributes the death of Private “Letter” at Doneraile to the IRA but gives the date as the 12^th July.

http://www.academia.edu/10301539/Shooting_and_other_incidents_in_Cork_County_1917-July_1921

One thing I'm not clear about. As far as I can tell the Truce came into effect on Tuesday 11th July, and the CWGC and Headstone refers to Richard dying on the 10th. However the piece in the Independent refers to him being shot on the Sunday, the "eve of the truce". I don't know therefore if Richard survived the shooting but succumbed to his wounds the following day, or if there is some confusion over the weekdays.

regards,

Peter

[mcassell]

The truce came into effect at noon on 11 July 1921, a Monday. So poor Private Larter was shot dead on the Sunday, the eve of the truce.

[PRC]

Thanks Gunner,

Being a klutz I managed to pick up on the one mention on the Irish Medals sites of the 11th July being a Tuesday when there are umpteen other references to it being a Monday in connection with the deaths of individuals now that I've read it through again.

http://www.irishmedals.org/british-soldiers-kia.html

At least one of the newspaper articles I read mentioned something like 18 soldiers being killed on the eve of the truce,

regards,

Peter

[mcassell]

In 1951,the bodies of two soldiers of the Machine Gun Corps were discovered near Charleville, Cork. They were never identified though the CWGC did place a headstone over their grave in Charleville Holy Cross cemetery.  It is thought that these were two deserters who were shot dead by the IRA. The Freeman's Journal of 26 May 1921 reports the men deserting on 23 May 1921. While browsing through the Police Gazette for July 1921, I noticed that two MGC men were reported as having deserted from Kilmallock (near Charleville) on 23 May 21: 7814507 Private Patrick James Cagney, 20, from Camberwell, and 7812760 Private Walter Musgrove, 19, from Langley Mill, Derbyshire.  I have been unable to locate any record of the deaths of these men nor their listing in electoral rolls, etc on Ancestry.  Is it possible that the two men buried in Charleville are Privates Cagney and Musgrove?

[ss002d6252]

8 minutes ago, mcassell said:

In 1951,the bodies of two soldiers of the Machine Gun Corps were discovered near Charleville, Cork. They were never identified though the CWGC did place a headstone over their grave in Charleville Holy Cross cemetery.  It is thought that these were two deserters who were shot dead by the IRA. The Freeman's Journal of 26 May 1921 reports the men deserting on 23 May 1921. While browsing through the Police Gazette for July 1921, I noticed that two MGC men were reported as having deserted from Kilmallock (near Charleville) on 23 May 21: 7814507 Private Patrick James Cagney, 20, from Camberwell, and 7812760 Private Walter Musgrove, 19, from Langley Mill, Derbyshire.  I have been unable to locate any record of the deaths of these men nor their listing in electoral rolls, etc on Ancestry.  Is it possible that the two men buried in Charleville are Privates Cagney and Musgrove?

It could be a good bet - perhaps they never actually deserted (or were unlucky enough to desert & be killed on the same day).

 

Craig

[corisande]

That is an interesting find in the Police Gazette, and you may well be on to something. 

 

My page on the Charleville deserters is on

http://www.cairogang.com/soldiers-killed/deserters/charleville/charlville-deserters.html

and I have added this at the bottom

 

And there is a thread on the forum at

 

Any help in tracking this down would be very welcome