charlesmessenger Posted 5 November , 2007 Share Posted 5 November , 2007 Haig`s Command (A reassessment) Author Denis Winter Viking publishing Very interesting....still better couple of pounds only from a charity shop.... also purchased at the same charity shop....Byng of Vimy Now thats what I call a great bargain ! Just beware of what he writes, especially his quotations from Australian and Canadian archives. Researchers subsequently established that he had apparently taken quotes out of context and doctored them. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndCMR Posted 29 December , 2007 Share Posted 29 December , 2007 just about to start on 'With the Cameliers in Palestine' by John Robertson, the Naval & Military Press reprint of a 1919/1920? original. Recently finished 'The Forgotten Soldier' by Guy Sajer, OK it's WW2 (about a half-French half-German serving on the Russian front with the Waffen SS) but it has got to be one of the best personal combat memoirs and I highly recommend it. Neil. It's been a few years, but IIRC, Sajer served in the Panzergrenadier division "GrossDeutschland", a Wehrmacht rather than SS formation. Wait, I'll google up the number....http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grossdeutschland_Division The story of the gate over the entrance to their training camp and Herr Hauptmann Fink striding across the prostrate recruits stays in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2ndCMR Posted 29 December , 2007 Share Posted 29 December , 2007 Just beware of what he writes, especially his quotations from Australian and Canadian archives. Researchers subsequently established that he had apparently taken quotes out of context and doctored them. Charles M I just finished "Haig's Command, A Reassessment" by Denis Winter and I'd say it is an excellent book written by one of those rare authors who bothers to actually systematically pursue the source material and become familiar enough with it, that they can interpret intelligently and perceive what conflicts and what has been altered or removed. One wonders why Winter is not accused of misquoting from British sources?? As for what "researchers subsequently established", details would be interesting, considering how much the previous 80 years of researchers seem to have missed, most of all that so much is missing. Has anyone been able to rebut Winter's assertions in detail? Haig's demand for 250,000 pounds and a peerage after the war says it all. Reminds me of Sam Hughes writing the King to ask for a VC! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PBI Posted 29 December , 2007 Share Posted 29 December , 2007 "The War Of The Guns" By Aubrey Wade.A Superb Personal Account of His Service, from His Enlistment until the Armistice.An Excellent read,accompanied with some Very Good Photographs,plus a Foreword By Edmund Blunden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 29 December , 2007 Share Posted 29 December , 2007 "How The War Was Won" (Travis). Don`t read it if you`re an unreconstructed Haigophile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desdichado Posted 29 December , 2007 Share Posted 29 December , 2007 I'm just starting the report of The Dardanelles Commission, printed by The Stationary Office. It's part of the "uncovered editions" series. There are some excellent titles in this series of books and I can recommend The Amritsar Massacre for those interested in British India in the period just following the peace of 1918. I'll let you know how I get on. Regards, Des Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 29 December , 2007 Share Posted 29 December , 2007 I just finished "Haig's Command, A Reassessment" by Denis Winter and I'd say it is an excellent book written by one of those rare authors who bothers to actually systematically pursue the source material and become familiar enough with it, that they can interpret intelligently and perceive what conflicts and what has been altered or removed. One wonders why Winter is not accused of misquoting from British sources?? As for what "researchers subsequently established", details would be interesting, considering how much the previous 80 years of researchers seem to have missed, most of all that so much is missing. Has anyone been able to rebut Winter's assertions in detail? Haig's demand for 250,000 pounds and a peerage after the war says it all. Reminds me of Sam Hughes writing the King to ask for a VC! 2nd CMR The website below will give you a flavour of the criticisms of Winter’s book. http://www.johndclare.net/wwi3_winter_thesis.htm It is noteworthy that a number of eminent historians were initially taken in by it and it was only when people went to check out his primary sources that the flaws in it became apparent. On the other hand, the reader should smell a rat as early as pp28-29 when Winter claims that Haig did not come first in the order of merit in his class in Sandhurst or win the Anson Memorial Sword. A look at the Sandhurst records shows that Haig achieved both, as an article by S A Anglion in the British Army Review of August 1992 makes plain. Other sources that you might look at are: Robin Prior and Trevor Wilson’s review of the Winter book in the Australian War Memorial Journal 23 (October 1993) John Hussey’s two articles on the Haig Diaries in Stand To (Journal of the Western Front Association) Nos 42 and 47 There are others, but I have not the time to dig them out at present. As for a few of my own observations, these concern the attack at Amiens on 8 August 1918. On Page 197 Winter implies that Sir Henry Wilson, the CIGS, was fully abreast of what was being planned. This is not so. Wilson may have had an inkling of what was happening, but was not officially informed until the morning of 8 August, and then by a letter from General du Cane, the British representative at Foch’s HQ, which was hand delivered by one of his staff. On the same page Winter cites Rawlinson’s diary for 29 July in stating that Haig ordered him to advance no further than the Amiens Outer Defences and then over 48 hours. There is no such in the diary for that day. Rawlinson wrote that he saw Haig after lunch and went through his plans and that Haig was ‘quite satisfied’. Finally, on Page 199 I have found no trace of Haig’s supposed order of 7 August that Rawlinson must go no further than the Amiens Outer Defences. In summary, it seems to me that Winter deliberately set out to denigrate Haig and was prepared to twist the evidence to support his thesis. It is hardly objective history. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 29 December , 2007 Share Posted 29 December , 2007 With regard to Haig`s passing out & the Anson sword:- http://1914-1918.invisionzone.com/forums/i...;hl=anson+sword Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlesmessenger Posted 29 December , 2007 Share Posted 29 December , 2007 Thanks for that, Phil. Charles M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 29 December , 2007 Share Posted 29 December , 2007 ..Out Of Rumour Myths And Legends Are Created, But Out Of Fact History Should Be Made. I will say no more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hans Molier Posted 31 December , 2007 Share Posted 31 December , 2007 At this moment several books, but one of them is 'VC's of the First World War - the Somme' by Gerald Gliddon. I still have to write a new Dutch article about a WW1-recipient for a Dutch WW1-magazine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 2 January , 2008 Share Posted 2 January , 2008 At present "The Story of the Fourth Army in the battles of the Hundred Days, August 8th to November 11th" by Major General Sir Archibald Montgomery K.C.M.G., C.B. General Staff, Fourth Army. Absorbing if somewhat dry book. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andigger Posted 3 January , 2008 Author Share Posted 3 January , 2008 The War to End All Wars by Edward Coffman... good, but lacking in some respects especially since the version hasn't been updated since 1968. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
armourersergeant Posted 3 January , 2008 Share Posted 3 January , 2008 "The Story of the Fourth Army in the battles of the Hundred Days, August 8th to November 11th" by Major General Sir Archibald Montgomery K.C.M.G., C.B. General Staff, Fourth Army. Andy, Does it come across as how Rawlinson and Montgomery won the war, or does it 'reward' more junior commanders for their part in the advances? I have always thought that 'vanity' was high in both of these men, whilst I think Rawlinson had ability of sorts I am unconvinced about Montgomery! regards Arm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
harps Posted 3 January , 2008 Share Posted 3 January , 2008 Currently reading 'Brothers in War' by Michael Walsh, which is an excellent read so far. Hopefully, should be recieving 'The Civil Service Rifles in the Great War: All bloody Gentlemen' by Jill Knight and 'With a Machine Gun to Cambrai' by George Coppard from Amazon any time soon so some good reading to come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tom compton Posted 3 January , 2008 Share Posted 3 January , 2008 hello pals.i am in the middle of reading "the last fighting tommy" by harry patch and van emden i just cant put it down .tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
privatewickham Posted 3 January , 2008 Share Posted 3 January , 2008 About to get stuck into Mud, Blood and Poppycock... any one else read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
egbert Posted 3 January , 2008 Share Posted 3 January , 2008 Currently reading 4 books simultaneously: 2 books from my colleague Markus Klauer "Hoehe 304" and "Toter Mann", Ziese "Das Antlitz von Verdun" and Hirschfeld "Die Deutschen an der Somme" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 3 January , 2008 Share Posted 3 January , 2008 Hopefully, should be recieving 'The Civil Service Rifles in the Great War: All bloody Gentlemen' by Jill Knight and 'With a Machine Gun to Cambrai' by George Coppard from Amazon any time soon so some good reading to come As a former colleague of Jill Knight (who sadly died in 2005), and having, by coincidence, just finished re-reading "With a Machine Gun ...", I think I can safely say that you have indeed got some very good reading to come. Enjoy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiegeGunner Posted 3 January , 2008 Share Posted 3 January , 2008 About to get stuck into Mud, Blood and Poppycock... any one else read it? I like it - not everyone does. Put 'Poppycock' into the Forum search engine to find numerous threads discussing it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stiletto_33853 Posted 3 January , 2008 Share Posted 3 January , 2008 Arm, To be fair, the book so far does not come over that way, and, to date I have found it thoroughly absorbing and difficult to put down. Some marvelous pictures and panoramas in Vol 1 and Volume 2 is solely maps and panoramas. Will let you know if further into the book Montgomery does indulge himself and Rawlinson, but so far a good read. I know that you will probably want one of the pictures, being a photograph of the Fourth Army Commander and the Army Headquarters Staff all named. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djew1953 Posted 3 January , 2008 Share Posted 3 January , 2008 "Douglas Haig - the Educated Soldier" by John Terraine. I have only just started it, but as I have enjoyed all of the other books by John Terraine i have no doubt that this one will be a very interesting read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
linden Posted 6 January , 2008 Share Posted 6 January , 2008 Years ago I read "And Quiet Flows The Don" by Mikhail Sholokov . I think it did cover the Kossak regions during WW1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John(txic) Posted 6 January , 2008 Share Posted 6 January , 2008 Just got "Generals: 10 British Commanders who shaped the World" by Mark Urban. Commanders of relevance here are Kitchener and Allenby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
At Home Dad Posted 13 March , 2008 Share Posted 13 March , 2008 Very new to the subject, but last year read: A Month at the Front: The Diary of an Unknown Soldier (Bodleian Library) Through German Eyes: The British and the Somme 1916 (Phoenix Press) Currently laughing so hard while reading The First Hundred Thousand, being the unofficial chronicle of a unit of "K (1)" (mint 1940 Penguin paperback edition, £2 on eBay!) Kind regards, All Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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