British Trench Raids

[Black Watch]

We had found two more machine guns and were planting Stokeses under them when we heard the Lewises giving the recall signal. A good gunner gets so he can play a tune on a Lewis, and the device is frequently used for signals. This time he thumped out the old one--"All policemen have big feet." Rat-a-tat-tat--tat, tat.

It didn't come any too soon.

Tom McC

Never heard of that, amazing stuff.

Neil

[Tom A McCluskey]

Cherisy Raid 1917 - Durham Light Infantry

I was wondering if any of the Pals have information about the abovementioned raid? It is fairly large and it must have involved very specific, and detailed planning. Here's a snippet from: The Whites of Their Eyes:

...two battalions of the Durham Light Infantry in a raid on a stretch of what the British called Narrow Trench, near the village of Cherisy, some 15 kilometres south-east of Arras. The Cherisy raid was unusually large and elaborate and had been planned at divisional headquarters, with considerable artillery support at that and corps level, as well as the participation of the Royal Flying Corps and a detachment of Royal Engineers. Also included a company of the euphemistically named Special Brigade, the chemical warfare experts, who would launch a localized poison gas attack. But this was only one of nineteen significant trench raids carried out by the British Third Army in the month of September alone.

The Cherisy raid stands out from the rest by reason not just of its size, but also of its studied brutality. It involved no fewer than three separate phases: an attack by three companies of the 8th Battalion [DLI], followed by a second attack by one company from the 9th [DLI] aimed at killing surviving Germans engaged in trying to reinstate their defences. As if that was not enough, that night the Special Brigade's 'engineers' fired 522 29kg bombs, each containing 13kg of liquid phosgene, a highly toxic respiratory agent. The British sat for ten minutes, waiting for the German stretcher bearers to arrive, and then, for a further ten minutes, poured machine-gun, mortar, gun, and howitzer fire into the gas cloud.

Aye

Tom McC

[findabetterole]

Excellant thread chaps, and thank you 'Tom McC' for starting it off.

I think if I had been given the chance to take part in a Trench Raid of the period, I would have picked a chest rack of mills bombs (to do the most damage), an American style knuckle duster type dagger (for personal protection), a short handled knockerberry with diamond style studs around the head, a Webley Mk.4 - 38.cal Service Revolver (to backup the dagger) and a sharpenned German style entrenching tool (for close quarter if things got a little excited), backed up by the knockerberry.

I know that many individuals took SMLE's, but would they not have been for local protection or flank cut-off's?

Seph

[PhilB]

And then, of course, there are the pitchforks. An essential part of any trench raid. With bent tines, naturally, for hooking prisoners out! Phil B

[healdav]

There's an interestng description of repelling a British trench raid in Ernst Junger's Copse 125 (Rossignol Wood to the British).

In fact, the trench design was so standard that I read out the relevant paragraphs when taking groups in the front line trenches in the St. Mihiel Salient.

The words fit absolutely. Every bit of trench design can be followed. Amazing.

[stiletto_33853]

Tom,

Do you have any dates for this raid, as the area is near the boundary of the 14th/18th Divisions. There was an attack across this ground on the 3rd May where the attackers got caught by German machine gun posts in Triangle Wood.

I have the 14th War Diary and operation plans and will see if there is any mention of it but there is an awful lot of paperwork, signals, Divisional orders, planned artillery barrages etc., etc so a date would be good to try and pinpoint it.

Andy

[Sbufkle]

Now just for claification, and understanding it may have been Canadian biased. I have been taught in university here in Montreal that Canadians pioneered trench raiding. When I first heard that, I did take it with a grain of salt... honestly I didnt believe it with what I had read up to that date.

Actually I havent heard such a claim sicne but only read in Pierre Burtons 'Vimy' that he said Canadians had gotten to be very good at trench raiding along with Aussies.

Im sure with all the expertise in these forums maybe one of you can set the record straight.

[Tom A McCluskey]

Andy,

Don't know how I missed your last comments , so apologies from me. Also, unfortunately I do not have further details of the Cherisy Raid. Hopefully, some kind pal may have a diary operation order for the 8th and 9th DLI.

Aye

Tom McC

[stiletto_33853]

Tom,

No problem, I have been through the 14th Divisions War Diary, Daily Operation Files etc., for Feb, Mar, April, May,June & July and have not found anything as yet. Lets hope that some Pal has the War Diaries for these battalions to shed some light on the matter.

Andy

[Chris Henschke]

Now just for claification, and understanding it may have been Canadian biased. I have been taught in university here in Montreal that Canadians pioneered trench raiding. When I first heard that, I did take it with a grain of salt... honestly I didnt believe it with what I had read up to that date.

Actually I havent heard such a claim sicne but only read in Pierre Burtons 'Vimy' that he said Canadians had gotten to be very good at trench raiding along with Aussies.

Im sure with all the expertise in these forums maybe one of you can set the record straight.

'The first regular trench-raid - in the sense in which the term was afterwards applied - appears to have been undertaken by the 5th and 7th Canadian Battalions near Messines on 16 Nov., 1915.'

Australian Official History, volume III.

This is from a footnote regarding the preparation for an early Australian raid 1916. It goes on to say that two Canadian officers (Lieutenants Connors and Kent) assisted in the pre-raid training. I'm not sure what Bean means by 'first regular trench raid' but certainly in the main text Canadians were acknowledged as pioneers in these types of minor enterprises.

Chris Henschke

[Joe Sweeney]

Andy,

Don't know how I missed your last comments , so apologies from me. Also, unfortnately I do not have further details of the Cherisy Raid. Hopefully, some kind pal may have a diary operation order for the 8th and 9th DLI.

Aye

Tom McC

Tom,

Are you aware that the IWM review N.4 (by Stephen Badsey) published a long detailed article on just this trench raid (Cherisy 15 Sept 17). The article is complete with aerial photos taken by the 12th Light bomber squadron of the raid underway. Shows men of C&B coy's 9th DLI advancing, the box barrage and Germans in the trenches.

I will gladly copy for you if you don't have easy access to this issue.

Joe Sweeney

[Tom A McCluskey]

Joe,

That would be excellent if you could. PM-ing email address now.

Many Thanks

Aye

Tom McC

[Guest Kaishowing]

Dave,

A moving tribute to David Sutherland, and you are right about the E A Mackintosh MC. He also wrote:

High Wood to Waterlot Farm,

All on a summer's day,

Up you get to the top of the trench

Though you're sniped at all the way.

If you've got a smoke helmet there

You'd best put it on if you could,

For the wood down by Waterlot Farm

Is a bloody high wood.

The HD history mentions a raid by Lt Herd, abeit it says 6th BW I am sure the raid was carried out by 7th (Fife) Black Watch.

Bob, It will be interesting to compare the German & British MO.

Healdav, I have not read Storm of Steel. However, in the pages of the 4/5 BW raid, the Germans put down trench blocks and end up having quite a big grenade fight. The Black Watch bombers, luckily enough, were wearing armour so they did not come off as badly as they could have.

Aye

Tom McC

Thank you so much for this. I'm working in the Library in Thurso and am helping Pvt Sutherland's grand-daughter trace some information on him.

If anyone is interested, there's a book (rather rare I'm afraid) called 'The Sword Of The North' that has more detail on the Highland Regiments (especially The Seaforth's) during the Great War.

thank you for your help again.

[Tom A McCluskey]

Hi All,

Forgot to post that the time of the Cherisy Raid was 4pm GMT on Saturday the 15th September 1917 (Many Thanks to Joe Sweeney for this info)

Also, been reading that Royal Engineers were sometimes broght on raids to blow up dug-outs and strong points. This is in addition to other raiders bombing dug-outs. Does anyone know what type of ordnance the Royal Engineers would be using? Would it be similar, or the same, as was used for mining purposes?

Aye

Tom McC

[Chris Henschke]

Tom,

The use of High Explosives in blasting/mining and demolitions are two very different applications.

I know of two types of demolition charges used specifically for dugouts.

One was a 'petrol tin bomb' which was the standard 2 gallon petrol tin filled with HE, and initiated with an igniter, safety fuse, percussion, which was fixed throught the lid of the tin.

The other was a 'Ferret bomb". Made up from 8 slabs of guncotton, it was encased with shaped wooden panels, rounded so that the charge could be rolled down a dugout without lodging on the steps.

Chris Henschke

[bob lembke]

Tom,

The other was a 'Ferret bomb". Made up from 8 slabs of guncotton, it was encased with shaped wooden panels, rounded so that the charge could be rolled down a dugout without lodging on the steps.

Chris Henschke

The Ferret bomb is quite clever, but must have been a lot of work to fabricate. Was that done at the local level, as suggested by the corps-issued diagram?

The most common Hunnish device for such applications was the geballtne Ladnung, probably best translated as "bundled charge", which usually was made at the unit by taking six heads of "potato masher" grenades and taping or wiring them about a complete seventh grenade, that grenade providing the fuze, a handle for throwing, and additional explosive power. The stick grenade was powerful but was basically a concussion grenade, without any special provision for fragmentation, and was a good basis for this sort of device. A guy in my father's unit knocked out three tanks in two days with these devices. It was light enough to be thrown, probably not far, of course. Sometimes a second layer of six more grenade heads was wired about a device of seven grenades, for a total of 13 grenade heads, quite a bomb.

In the fighting for Fort Vaux at Verdun the Germans got onto the roof of the fort, but French machine gunners were firing from embrasures in the wall of the fort. Pioniere (combat engineers) lowered another anti-fort device, the Brandrohr ("fire tube"), an iron tube 3-4 feet long which, when ignited, shot a jet of flame, smoke, and hot gasses about 6-7 feet out of one end, on ropes and directed the jet of flame into the MG firing slits, driving the French from the guns and probably messing up the MGs as well. Eventually, the French resumed firing out the slots, and then the Pioniere lowered baskets of stick grenades in front of the firing slits, setting it off by janking on a cord tied to the fuze cord of one of the grenades. These explosions permamently ceased the French use of these firing positions.

The Germans eventually fought their way into the interior of the fort, and the fighting in the corridors was horrible even by WW I standards. The French built sand sack barricades every few feet down the two corridors being fought in, and it took days for the Germans to fight 50 feet forward. I have an account of a Pionier=Leutnant rushing in the dark toward one of these barricades, planting and setting off a geballtne Ladung, and then running away, having 6 1/2 seconds before the explosion. When it blew he was, of course, wounded. (I assume that he did it himself as he would not ask a man to do something so semi-suicidal.) I also have found the first-person account of the French sentry who was crouching on the other side of the barricade. He was knocked unconcious and wounded by the blast, was buried under the blown-over sand bags, and eventually his comrades came and dug him out and carried him to one of the hellish aid stations that the French had. This incident will make an exciting page or two in a book that I am working on.

Flame throwers were tried, but were actually too terrible in the small corridors; in a successful attack the French might be burned, but the German crew was also injured. They were used to burn off the oxygen in the interior of the fort, and eventually kerosene lanterns in the French-held portion of the fort could not even burn. The French ran out of water, supposedly the blasts of 420 mm howitzer shells had fractured the water tanks (they had several hundred fighters, but were burdened with an equal number of malingerers and stragglers who were very interested in eating and drinking, but not in fighting) and had to surrender. The Germans gave the surrendered French soldiers filing out of the fort military honors, but were stunned when the French broke ranks and threw themselves down and started licking mud outside of the fort.

The Crown Prince invited the crusty French CO of the fort to dinner (he spoke excellent French), and gave the major a sword and supposedly even a pistol to wear in captivity, gave him a servant and his dog to have in captivity, and loaded him with so much cake that the major fed his dog with cake. (My father was stationed in the same town, Stenay-sur-Meuse, a few months later, and was angry that for Christmas dinner the men could not even be fed potatos, then a luxury. Three days later he lay wounded in a capured French dugout on Dead Man's Hill for three days before being found. Cake is good.) A while later the major was paroled to Switzerland, where I for one would not mind sitting WW I out in. The major's memoirs are loaded with complaints of his treatment as a POW. Some people can never be satisfied.

I have veered a bit OT, possibly, but I hope that the above is interesting.

Bob Lembke

[Tom A McCluskey]

Chris,

Many thanks for the very useful information on the demolitions used by the Royal Engineers. I think I have read about the petrol can being used, I will see if I can dig it out.

Also, Bob, Many thanks for the information about the German devices used.

All very useful contributions to the thread.

Aye

Tom McC

[Tom A McCluskey]

Hi All,

It has been a while since I've been on this thread and in the mean time I have read throught it and thought I'd post this excerpt of the Orders of a successful raid carried out by the 8th Black Watch and 5th Camerons (9th Scottish Division), on the 14/15th September 1916. It covers areas such as dress, and albeit they are both Highland Regiments, raiding was conducted in trousers. It also covers very elementary conduct after capture.

Another point I have learned since my initial post, some time back. Occassionally, the shirt was worn, instead of a Service Dress jacket, as it was easier to identify the raiders on particularly dark nights. I suppose the white striped collar would help with respect to this.

Aye

Tom McC

[truthergw]

In " 'Stand To ' a diary of the trenches ", Capt. F.C. Hitchcock M.C. The author was OC a raid by two companies of The Leinsters. He gives a detailed description running to half a dozen pages of the raid itself and reproduces as an appendix, the orders for the raid.

[IanA]

Tom McC - I note, with surprise, that all raiding officers are to carry a French Horn. A clever ruse when the Germans would be expecting bagpipes or an attempt to subvert their ideas of Kultur?

[Tom A McCluskey]

Ian ,

The troops on this raid had been specifically ordered to respond to the bugle, French horn, and colour-coded flares. It looks like the Germans had often used whistles and the command: "Retire!", which is why it was used. By all accounts the French horn, I am assuming because of the pitch, was more readily heard than the bugle.

NOTE: The excerpt referring to the French horn is from the Post Operation Report. The excerpt referring to the retire is from the Operation Order

Aye

Tom McC

[IanA]

This is really quite interesting: I have never seen reference to a French horn in any Great War military document before. The bugle horn appears as the badge of several light infantry regiments and a tightly curled horn was the badge of the KOYLI. I did wonder if it referred to a reed-type horn such as those used by railway gangs to warn of an oncoming train but I think it must be the small copper horn which huntsmen used to wear tucked between the buttons of their coats. There are a few accounts of company commanders rallying their men with such horns while waving them on with a small cane. (This was usually shortly before they were shot.) It would make a distinctive braying sound which may have been audible through the clammour of a raid and would certainly have been very recognisable. These are tricky little instruments to sound at the best of times but with a dry mouth in the course of a raid.......?

The French horn as we know it today evolved from the hunting horns used by the various 'chasses' in France. They are still employed in their basic form by the hunts today and produce a spine-tingling multi-part 'fanfare' from the steps of a chateau.

[IanA]

Thinking further about this, the proper 'cor de chasse' may have been a good choice after all. The open coil means that it can be worn easily over the head and one shoulder thus freeing the hands. It would still require a bit of spit to sound it though!

Interesting that it could be clearly heard when a bugle could not. Perhaps they were 'borrowed' from a local chateau.

I wonder what the Germans thought about this wild music.

[Tom A McCluskey]

Ian,

The Germans probably though the crazy 'English' were on a hunt, and in a funny old way: they were right!

A photo of the troops with one would be good.

Aye

Tom McC

[IanA]

For those who don't know what I'm talking about, this is a cor de chasse or French hunting horn.

Here is a video clip. I don't know what effect it had on the Germans but it scares the living daylights out of me.