British Trench Raids

[Tom A McCluskey]

Hi All,

Des, Excellent stuff, I thought I’d read somewhere of an Ulster unit using the Stokes as a large bomb.

Gavin, please find below what I am on about, concerning the depth of the German trenches.

From The History of the Fifty First Highland Division, pages 63-64

In the Labyrinth the Division made its first organized raids. These raids consisted of heavily barraging a certain area, then at a given moment the barrage lifted off certain portions of this area and allowed the assaulting infantry to enter it. The barrage remained down on three sides of the area to protect the attackers who entered it from the fourth side from interference from without while they were destroying the Germans within. This form of barrage, originally first employed by the Germans was known as the box barrage.

The two most successful raids which took place during this period were those carried out by Lieutenant E. A. Mackintosh of the 5th Seaforth Highlanders (since killed in action), and Captain Herd of the 6th Black Watch. The former was in consequence awarded the Military Cross and the latter the D.S.O.

Raids subsequently became of such frequent occurrence that want of space forbids description of them all. Certain raids have, however, been selected for description, which will be dealt with later.

These raids in particular brought to light certain facts concerning German trench construction. The German trenches did not resemble the small ditch-like trenches commonly seen at schools of instruction and training grounds. They can be better compared to the marker’s gallery in a rifle range. They were ten to eleven feet deep, with sides for the most part revetted with planks. To get into them was not easy; to get out of them still less easy; while evacuating the wounded from them was a matter of considerable difficulty. In fact, in the case of Mackintosh’s raid, it is doubtful if his wounded could have been brought back to our lines at all had not a sally-port through which the more severely wounded were carried been discovered.

Aye

Tom McC

[DaveBrigg]

I assume that the Lieutenant E A Mackintosh mentioned above is the celebrated war poet, who wrote the following after one of his men was badly wounded in a raid and had to be left behind to die.

http://www.greatwar.co.uk/poems/inmemoriam.htm

[bob lembke]

My father was a German storm trooper in a flame thrower unit and described to me in detail their equipment, etc. One point was that seemingly no one carried a rifle, he never mentioned them in combat, but mentioned them back in garrison. From other sources I understand that some NCOs carried a carbine slung across the back, but the EM P 08s, sharpened spades, grenades, and several crew-served weapons. Interesting reversal. Had special storm grenades. They had a worshop and made special light weapons, and used captured enemy MGs.

I have posted this info elsewhere, but if there is interest I can put it up again.

Bob Lembke

[healdav]

If you look in Copse 125 by Ernst Junger you will see that he gives an account of a British trench raid and the way the Germans went about countering it.

I use it when taking groups around first line trenches nea St. Mihiel as, alhough Junger's account is on the Marne, the trench design he describes is absolutely that on the St. Mihiel salient.

[Tom A McCluskey]

Dave,

A moving tribute to David Sutherland, and you are right about the E A Mackintosh MC. He also wrote:

High Wood to Waterlot Farm,

All on a summer's day,

Up you get to the top of the trench

Though you're sniped at all the way.

If you've got a smoke helmet there

You'd best put it on if you could,

For the wood down by Waterlot Farm

Is a bloody high wood.

The HD history mentions a raid by Lt Herd, abeit it says 6th BW I am sure the raid was carried out by 7th (Fife) Black Watch.

Bob, It will be interesting to compare the German & British MO.

Healdav, I have not read Storm of Steel. However, in the pages of the 4/5 BW raid, the Germans put down trench blocks and end up having quite a big grenade fight. The Black Watch bombers, luckily enough, were wearing armour so they did not come off as badly as they could have.

Aye

Tom McC

[nittenman]

Were the knobkerries which were pictured purpose built or home made? They look rather fearsome.

Keith

[Chris Henschke]

Were the knobkerries which were pictured purpose built or home made? They look rather fearsome.

Keith

RE workshops for 1st Army produced technical drawings for the No. 1 Knobkerrie for entrenching tool and the No. 2 Knobkerrie for Bombers clubs.

Cast Iron.

Chris Henschke

[Ralph J. Whitehead]

Raid report from start June 1916. Click on link .. some nice stuff for RE demolition enthusiasts. No fisticuffs but generally all seemed to go well!

http://www.freewebs.com/ballymenaww1/12rirmayjune16.htm

Hi Des,

I may have some original photos of the area your boys attacked on 1 July 1916, interested? Want to put them on the web site?

Ralph

[Desmond7]

PM on way in morning my son. Bon nuit.

[Max Poilu]

Were the knobkerries which were pictured purpose built or home made? They look rather fearsome.

Keith

Most trench clubs or 'knobkieries (as they were often known) were made by RE's in France or at local workshops to relatively common designs, however, many were of course fashioned by individuals in the field. As mentioned earlier the cast pattern that was designed to be fitted in place of the entrenching tool head on the handle was the closest to a real standard and produced in large numbers. (see post #8).

Interesting definition of 'knobkierie' BTW - A Knobkierie, occasionally spelled knopkierie or knobkerry, is a strong, short wooden club with a heavy rounded knob or head on one end, traditionally used by Southern African tribes (e.g. Zulu) as a weapon in warfare and the chase. The word Knobkerrie derives from the Dutch knop (knob or button), and the Bushman and Hottentot kerrie=kirri (stick).

[PBI]

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?imgurl=h...l%3Den%26sa%3DG

[A.A.Savery]

Hi Tom,

I hadn’t deserted, just my quota of ‘leave’.

Tony,

I think the size of the raid (depending on the mission), the experience of the men, and when it was (1914 - 1918) would have some bearing on who would be on the nominal roll. The reason for saying this, is that some time into the war, I noticed that volunteering for duty was deemed to be a bad idea (by the 4th BW) on page 92 of Haunting Years and it was dropped - as a nucleus of good men were deemed to be exposed to the greater amount of danger, due to them always volunteering.

Aye

Tom McC

I can quite understand the thinking behind this, but surely a soldier would need to be up to the job.

I have read several times how men in the trenches became restless and were thankful when there was an opportunity to take part in a raid. These are perhaps the ones that an officer would look for. On the other hand I can’t imagine that he would pick one who started to shake every time a shell landed nearby.

Just imagine someone not being able to remember a password or signal!

How easily could a plan fail simply because a spoken word was misinterpreted?

Was a private expected to know the orders off by heart or were there always enough N.C.O’s on hand to guide him through such a mission?

This particular raid was obviously very well planned so I wonder how much training would have gone into it?

A great thread anyway!

Cheers,

Tony

[Tom A McCluskey]

Tony,

A couple of the successful raids that I have read about, involved thorough planning, preparation and training. Sometimes involving taking men out of the line, on one I have read of for 10 days. The training would involve a thorough orientation involving models and full sized taped out areas made from aerial photographs, and practising individual tasks. I am not sure if this would be the case in 1914/1915. But hopefully some of the pals on the forum will enlighten us. I will post the details of Lieut Herd's raid later, and a bit on the preparation for a raid.

Aye

Tom McC

[A.A.Savery]

Thanks Tom, I'll keep watch.

Cheers,

Tony

[Tom A McCluskey]

Tony,

Here are the details of Lieut Herd's Raid, more to follow later:

I omitted to mention, and should have, that along with planning, preparation, and training: good leadership, offensive spirit, and good fortune play their part. Anyway here's the raid: from Wauchope, Vol II, Territorial Forces, 7th Black Watch, pages 260-262, Labyrinth Sector:

On June 3rd [1916] a successful raid was carried out by a party of seventy-five men of the 7th, under Lieutenants H J Herd and J S Finlayson. The party had carefully rehearsed the operation in Maroeuil, where a model of the area to be raided had been prepared. The model trenches, based on air photographs, were laid out exactly to scale, and thus every man learnt exactly where he had to go and what to do. A thorough reconnaissance of the German wire defences was also made beforehand and a suitable gap in it found, while gaps were also cut in the British wire to enable the party to get through.

In preparation for this raid, the Tunnelling Company drove galleries leading up to the area to be attacked. By the morning of June 3rd these had been completed, and three mines were in position ready to be exploded.

At 8.45 p.m. on the 3rd the Division artillery put down a heavy barrage on the German support line and on either flank of the position to be assaulted. At 8.50 p.m. the three mines were exploded, one on each flank of the position, and a similar one some distance away, the object of the latter being to distract the enemy’s attention from the raiding party. Unfortunately, the explosion caused several casualties among the raiding party which had assembled in the front line.

The raiders were divided into three groups under Lieutenant Herd, right; Lieutenant Finlayson, left; and Sergeant McIntosh, centre. The right party got into the German trenches without difficulty and made their way down the communication trench. They were fired at from a large dug-out, but effectively silenced this by throwing bombs into it, all of which took effect. Further on they met a party of the enemy whom they attacked and captured two prisoners. The centre party, moving up the communication trench, worked round to the right, bombed two dug-outs, and attacked and killed several Germans in the front line, three being bayoneted by Sergeant McIntosh himself. After this the party effected a junction with Lieutenant Herd’s party, and both then moved to the left in search of Lieutenant Finlayson’s party. Unfortunately the left party had been dispersed by shell fire before reaching the enemy lines. One shell struck a man carrying a bag of bombs and these exploded, wounding Lieutenant Finlayson and killing or wounding a number of his party. Several of the survivors, however, succeeded in reaching the enemy’s front line, and there joined the other two groups.

The right and centre groups being unable to get in touch with Lieutenant Finlayson’s party, moved further to the left, where they found three large dug-outs, one of which had been completely wrecked by one of our mines. The occupants of the other two were called up to surrender, but only one man came up and he was made prisoner, after which the dug-outs were bombed. Whilst this was going on the prisoner endeavoured to escape, but was pursued and killed by Lieutenant Herd.

Before returning to their own lines the party thoroughly explored the German trenches. It was found that enormous damage had been done by the mines, many half-buried bodies and large quantities of clothing and equipment being scattered about. The leaders were satisfied that not a single German was left alive where they visited.

Towards the end of the time appointed for the raid the Germans put down an intense artillery and mortar barrage on the Battalion trenches and in No Man’s Land, with the result that when the main body returned, it found that several men were missing. Calling for volunteers, Lieutenant Herd went out in the face of heavy fire, and with the assistance of Sergeant J Mitchell and Private J McNeill succeeded, after several journeys, in bringing in all the wounded, and the bodies of those killed. In this raid three men were killed and Lieutenant Finlayson and 15 men were wounded; on the other hand, a German captured a few days later stated that over 60 Germans had been killed during the raid.

Telegrams of congratulations on the success of this raid were received from the Corps, Division and Brigade Commanders. For their services, Lieutenant Herd was awarded the D.S.O., Sergeant McIntosh the D.C.M., and Sergeant Mitchell and Private McNeill the M.M.

Aye

Tom McC

[bob lembke]

As someone has foolishly given me an invitation to talk about German raiding methods, here goes with a bit of it.

My father's unit, after he got back from Gallipoli, was Garde=Reserve=Pionier=Regiment (Flammenwerfer) . So it was a storm unit, not a raiding unit, but they did raids as well as storm attacks. (I guess the difference was if you planned to hold the position, or pull out shortly.)

As far as equipment, For crew-served weapons (this is for a large platoon, later in the war, this changed a bit as the war went on.) eight flame-throwers (FW), two light MGs (Mostly captured French light MGs; surprisingly seemingly the Chauchat; I guess that they were clean, tested, and in such conditions might even fire. The German Army assigned 2 light MG (MG 08/15) per company, the flame pioneers wanted more, so the men were paid a bounty for each one grabbed and turned in after a raid/storm). The MGs had two rifle slings clipped together and to the barrel and rear, and it could be fired from the hip at the walk.

Special light spigot mortars (half normal weight, made in the regiment's own workshop in France.) One per platoon. One man could carry it on his back, weighed about 44 lbs., other men carried 12 76 mm rounds each in a special pack. So a platoon had perhaps 8 FW, two light MGs, and one 76 mm mortar. The later Wex FW weighed less than a normal infantry field-pack, loaded with oil. For each FW two men carried a rig of oil and nitrogen tanks, the tanks could be swapped in seconds with quick-connect fittings.

Individual weapons: Each man, a P 08. ("Luger") No clumsy holster; on a lanyard, tucked in the combat vest or into the blouse. NCOs might carry a slinged carbine. Probably no rifles at all. Combat vests, as my father called them, with egg and "potato masher" grenades. Many of the latter special storm grenades with 3 1/2 second fuzes. These grenades were shock grenades, not fragmentation grenades, safer for the storming grenadiers. A number of the men, possibly close to half the platoon, were primarily grenadiers. Many men carried what Pop called "razor-sharp spades", probably a bit of overstatement.

Uniform: Steel M 16 helmet. Given some forehead armor plates, quickly thrown away, very heavy. Uniform blouse, some with some mix of Prussian Guard lace, skull and cross-bones on the left sleeve, pioneer black shoulder-straps, and leather elbow patches. Alpine-style breeches, some with leather knee patches. Puttees. Light laced half-boots for adjilety (sp?) on the battlefield.

Picked men, tried for men under 25, unmarried. Pop was, as an 18 year old private, very big, an athlete, educated, spoke six languages.

These men did not rot in the trenches, they were kept in barracks 20 miles behind the line, had their own trucks permemently loaded with FW, spare oil, etc. Trained to operate independently at the level of the 10 man Trupp at a time when I think the unit of manuver in the Brit army was the batallion. Pop wrote in his letters how they trucked out for an attack, back to the barracks, a shower, and off to the kino for a movie in the evening.

I have the complete death roll of the regiment, and they averaged one death per flame attack. And many attacks were with 30 FW, quite a few with 60, some with 100, and the biggest with 154 FW. But they were very skilled, rehearsed, and the massed flame attack very often just broke the defense. The other type of attack were small stealth attacks. They avoided using ordinary infantry as much as possible.

Have to run. Interesting? I could describe a raid on Hill 304 at Verdun, with use of spade (brains down Pop's neck), many prisoners, probably no deaths. Pop was wounded trying to save a French officer.

Got to run to the doctor.

Bob Lembke

[A.A.Savery]

That certainly is interesting Bob.

It's a bonus to hear something of the other sides story and tactics.

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Cheers,

Tony

[bob lembke]

That certainly is interesting Bob.

It's a bonus to hear something of the other sides story and tactics.

Looking forward to the next instalment.

Cheers,

Tony

Thanks for your interest. I can describe two attacks at Verdun that my father participated (and was wounded in both, as well), a raid on Hill 304, and a full-sized attack on Dead Man's Hill.

I know much less about the raid, especially as I cannot link it to other sources other than my father's oral history. (Before I started studying WW I I wrote down 40 pages of his oral history, which I have found, to my surprise, almost uniformly accurate in every assertion that I have been able to link to official histories, letters, documents, etc. Of course, some things have not been checked out, but so much has proven accurate that I now accept the rest of the oral history.)

The raid was a pre-dawn raid on the summit of Hill 304 during the second half of 1916, when Verdun had quieted down, but there still was a level of attack and counter-attack. The large raid captured the summit before dawn, blew two batteries of French 75s, and headed back down the hill with 150 prisoners surprised and captured. A French officer emerged, probably half asleep, from a dugout, and, seeing the group of French soldiers moving along, shouted: "Jump in the trench! I hear explosions! I think that the Germans must be attacking!" (My father had good French.) The officer was holding a small-caliber personal pistol. Instead of shooting him, my father decided to try to take him alive, and jumped in the trench, reached out for the handgun, and said: "Please give me the gun. For you, the war is over!" When Pop's hand was inches away, the French officer shot him in the hand. The muzzle blast burned the hand so badly that the small entry wound was obscured. He bent over and pressed the hand between his thighs. At that moment, his sergeant stepped up, swung his "razor-sharp spade" in a vertical arc, and cut thru the officer's helmet crest, the helmet, and the head, catching in his clenched teeth, bisecting the head at least 80%. Pop was bent over, and he said that unpleasant stuff from the head went down the nape of his neck.

Back from the raid, Pop went to the medics, who looked at the hand and proclaimed it just a burn. A few days later, the small round worked its way toward the surface, and could be felt. He went back, and the slug was taken out.

I have studied the history of the fighting on Hill 304, and have not been able to identify this raid. I have enlisted the help of a serving Hauptmann of the Bundeswehr, Markus Klauer, who has written two books about the fighting on these two hills, and he has not identified the raid. It does not seem to be represented in the death roll of the regiment, which I believe, for complicated reasons, is remarkably accurate and complete (would take 2-3 pages to explain), and the engagement does not seem to be represented. (In Hauptmann Klauer's book on Dead Man's Hill, he mentioned my father in the action, without knowing his name, and I sent him exerpts of my father's letters describing the same action as in the book. He was blown away.)

I have lots on the other action, all sorts of stuff and sources, even a piece of bone from my father's upper left arm bone. I can write that up later. It was an attack, but there is a lot of technique that was used in trench raids.

Bob Lembke

[PhilB]

A weighted titanium spiked trench club would go clean through a German Helmet, killing the occupant, and was a lot more use in the dark than a rifle.

Guy

Titanium in WW1? I don`t recall it even in WW2! Phil B

[Tom A McCluskey]

According to Wikipedia,

Titanium was not used outside the laboratory till 1946. I thought the clubs were made of cast iron, but I did not want to look thick so I did not comment

Hope this helps

Aye

Tom MCC

[treetop]

Fascinating thread for me. I believe my uncle, Sgt John Willie Mackie was killed in a trench raid when serving with 10 DLI near Arras in early Jan 1917. His company were taken up to the line on xmas day and stood knee deep in water,many men getting trench foot,apparently. A raiding party of 50 were taken out of the line and trained for the raid,reaching the 3rd germand trench line before the germans counter attacked with phosphor bombs. A number were wounded and killed and I assume (to be confirmed somehow) that he was part of this group as it corresponded to time of death when I had the chance to look at the war diary of DLI before it stopped being freely available in DLI museum.

[Smithmaps]

According to Wikipedia,

Titanium was not used outside the laboratory till 1946. I thought the clubs were made of cast iron, but I did not want to look thick so I did not comment

Hope this helps

Aye

Tom MCC

Oops

I stand corrected, the officers club in the photo, I have seen, (the one in the 08 frog) had very hard steel spikes, and was designed to penetrate a helmet.

I must have got the wrong end of the stick about Titanium.

Call me knobkerry!

Guy

[bob lembke]

Fascinating thread for me. I believe my uncle, Sgt John Willie Mackie was killed in a trench raid when serving with 10 DLI near Arras in early Jan 1917. His company were taken up to the line on xmas day and stood knee deep in water,many men getting trench foot,apparently. A raiding party of 50 were taken out of the line and trained for the raid,reaching the 3rd germand trench line before the germans counter attacked with phosphor bombs.Generalleutnant A number were wounded and killed and I assume (to be confirmed somehow) that he was part of this group as it corresponded to time of death when I had the chance to look at the war diary of DLI before it stopped being freely available in DLI museum.

Pardon me showing my Tutophile nature, but that brief description seems to show a crummy process. Why was the rest of the company standing in knee-deep water for hours or days? As cheerleaders? As stretcher-bearers?

German command doctrine encouraged the commander on the spot, even a non-com, to act contrary to his orders if it made more sense, seeing the conditions. In the example of your uncle, I guess some "red tab" sitting in a chateau 20 miles back took another sip on his Bergundy, and said: " Send X Company to trench YY and do blah blah blah." It was a bit extreme, but my father's unit was allocated to, say, an army corps to carry out flame attacks by the German "Highest Army Command". Let's say that a platoon commanded by a NCO of some sort, or a company commanded by a lieutenant, to lead a flame attack. He, arriving, could ask to see the attack plans drawn up by the Generalleutnant commanding the division, or even at a higher paygrade, and if the NCO or Leutnant did not like the plans, he had the right to say: "I don't like these plans; they do not reflect the special characteristics of flame throwers; we will not participate in a attack along these lines." Ant that NCO had (figuratively) an order of the Highest Army Command (Hindenburg and Ludendorff) giving him the right to turn down the plans prepared by, say, an army corps commander. This is one reason why this elite unit only suffered about one man killed per attack. They would not have stood in water up to their knees for no apparent good reason.

Bob Lembke

[treetop]

if the NCO or Leutnant did not like the plans, he had the right to say: "I don't like these plans; they do not reflect the special characteristics of flame throwers; we will not participate in a attack along these lines." Ant that NCO had (figuratively) an order of the Highest Army Command (Hindenburg and Ludendorff) giving him the right to turn down the plans prepared by, say, an army corps commander.

A very valid point Bob but I seem to recall reading about german commanders sending soldiers into apparently deadly fire with little regard on this front as well. May have been Prince Rupert's army I was reading about?Your father obviously served in a unit that was given such leeway,perhaps it didnt always apply to the PBI. Development of different strategic attacks such as gas,tanks,comms and air force must have shaken the natural ability of old style Generals who had to learn to accomodate emerging units who had tactical nous but more intelligence to query silly orders?

[TonyE]

Great Stuff so far!

Max,

Good picture of the chaps 'tooled up!'. Looks like the middle man of the rear rank has an automatic pistol in his left hand. The stokes bomb - I think I have read a reference of these being thrown into dug-outs, possibly by the Ulster Division on the Somme?

Aye

Tom McC

Excellent picture Max. The guy in the centre of the rear rank has what looks like a Colt 1908 in .380 inch. There were a small number of these on issue and the ammunition is listed in the 1918 Priced vocab of stores.

Also, the remainder , certainly the rear right hand two, are armed with Spanish O.P. pistols. It is quite uncommon to find pictures of these with fighting troops as they were usually issued to second line troops on account of their somewhat dubious quality.

Regards

TonyE