how many of us are interested in gallipoli?

[rob carman]

Two G/uncles in the 1/4th Norfolks started my interest in Gallipoli.

Rob Carman.

[bob lembke]

Bob

It is with some reluctance that I suggest you log onto www.awm.gov.au

then to 'search our collections' and type in Bapaume Town Hall.

I had grown up thinking that was one of the most dastardly deeds of the war, particularly when one of the victims was the Aussie Comforts Fund Volunteer shown in one of the AWM pictures.

But it was a long time ago and "Say le Guerre"

Gra.

Didn't I respond to this, Gra.? I think I did so at about 5 AM, possibly in an early AM fog I accidentally sent it off to a Forum on oral hygene, or the cultivation of oranges, not the GWF.

Anyway, in brief, I think that I said that this bomb was not left to blow up women or civilians, but the HQ that the Allies had in the city hall before the Germans had taken Bapaume, which, since people are often creatures of habit, might have been reestablished in the same building. Since such a large and central building was not being used for military purposes, but the volunteers were put in there instead, one might possibly shift a bit of the blame at the military types who may have decided that the location might be too dangerous for military use, but suitable for civilian volunteers.

On another thread on the Forum I see mention of the Brit 182nd Tunnelling Company; since I also have seen that some tunnelling companies had a strength of over 400 men, it looks like there were many tens of thousands of Brits busily burrowing toward the German lines to blow up some Huns. Wasn't that the purpose of the whole war; to cause large explosions, and hopefully to blow up more of the other guy than yourselves?

Bob Lembke

[CSMMo]

My grandfather was in the 4th Highland Mountain Brigade, RGA (TF), but wasn't sent to Gallipoli as was the HQ, Ammunition Column and the Argyll and Ross Mountain Batteries. I am working on their history as it is overlooked in most of the other histories. A TF unit in a Regular Army Division (29th), the 2/3 strength 4th Highland Mountain Brigade provided the first guns ashore at Helles and at Suvla. The first artillery round fired in the southern sector was about 2 pm on 25th April from #2 gun Ross Mountain Battery. In addition to providing the only mobile guns that could be positioned at the front lines of trenches and atop hills, cliffs, etc. providing the most effective anti-machine gun fire available, their animals provided the only foal born on Gallipoli (Lady Gallipoli). There will be an article about them in he next edition of The Gallipolian, with photos. The problem with the Mountain Guns at Gallipoli? There weren't enough of them and the high command was stuck on the Western Front idea of more and bigger guns with massive amounts of ammunition - effective for the Western Front, but, as Kitchener found out when he finally came out there, this was not the Western Front. Thanks again, Tuna, for the great contemporary photos of the peninsula.

Mike Morrison

[drewsart]

Hi Bob

Ben (Grandfather) received his second wound in Bapaume from a guns shot wound not as the result of an explosion - so i guess we dont have that conection there - His third wound the one resulted in the need to amputate his leg was in a town called 'Etaples' on the 18/4/1918 which i know nothing about. thanks for your input there Bob

Does any body have any information on this town and the actions by the australians that took place here

Regards

Andrew

[T8HANTS]

Hi Steve and Rob

I think w should start a "Friends of 163 Brigade" Assocation.

Gareth.......aka T8Hants

[SFayers]

Hi Steve and Rob

I think w should start a "Friends of 163 Brigade" Assocation.

Gareth.......aka T8Hants

Well I can think of at least two other Forum members who had relatives with the 1/5th Suffolks at Gallipoli!

cheers

Steve

[Bazezah]

Hi All

my interest in Gallipoli started with the researching of 12995 Pte George Williams, 4th (Service) Bn South Wales Borderers (My wife's great uncle) who served at Gollipoli from 15 July 1915 until KIA 23 July 1915.

Barry

[Jeff Pickerd]

Tuna,

In answer to your question I would have to exchange interest for obsession. For the past seven years I have been attempting to write a concise chronological history of the 8th Light Horse Regiment, 3rd Light Horse Brigade, A.I.F. As such, this history has advanced to April 1916, but due to the never ending flow of new information I am constantly drawn back to the Gallipoli campaign, and beginning to despair as to being ever able to move forward with the Regiments history.

My specific interest in Gallipoli stems from my Grandfather, at that time, Sgt George William FUZZARD No. 50, "D" Troop, "A" Sqdn, 8th Light Horse Regiment, severely wounded at the charge at the Nek, 7th August 1915, going out in the second line of the charge on the extreme right of Russell's Top.

Ozzie has previously posted my narrative of the charge, to which I thank her for doing so.

The charge at the Nek stands as one of Australia's most memorable disasters from Gallipoli and to emphasize this point, the following quote from the 8th's historian, Major William "Lauchie" McGrath: -

"No unit of the A.I.F. has done better work or suffered more heavily in self-sacrificing effort during the Great War. Its name stands out with peculiar distinctness among the Australian Regiments. The fatal luck which seemed to "dog" its career has made its name famous throughout the A.I.F. and among the English Troops with whom it came in contact during its varied wanderings. Search the lists of Casualties of the Australian Light Horse Regiments, you will find its name at the top, and these lists tell a story of their own, unique and sad. It was a peculiar fate that whenever the fighting was thickest, whenever a gap had to be filled, the 8th Regiment would be there on the spot. The famous sacrifice at "The Nek", Gallipoli, will go down forever as an epic, where men did their part in the face of certain death."

I think Alan Moorehead in his book "Gallipoli" summed it up best: -

"there can scarcely have been a battlefield quite like it in this or any other war."

Jeff

[nzzephyr]

Oops...got so excited that I pressed reply before I actually typed something !!

Jeff, you are correct on two points

Obsession.......Yes, a far better description of my 'interest' than I care to admit to sometimes

and 'The Nek' in my opinion rates as the most brave of all the actions in the whole campaign.

These men charging into the face of certain death ....simply incredible heroism ...

My Grandfather, Gunner Arnie Adams 12/1135A NZFA served on Gallipoli for the duration of the campaign

and then to France & Belguim to return home in 1918

I have not made the trip to the Peninsula yet but plan to be there for the 100 year anniversary and then to Flanders fields

Lance

[jim_davies]

Interested in 5th Connuaght Rangers becuase my g-g-uncle somehow ended up with them, being killed at Hill 60, and 6th Lincolns because they were the local regt.

Jim

[bob lembke]

I still have not taken the time to look at that site for this purpose, as I am rushing to finish a book, and we are getting into tax season here, but I will; for years I have kept my eyes open for material on this, but have seen very little to date. Many thanks for the tip. Pop told me that they busily put in lots of booby-traps, mortar shells in stove flues to blow up the blokes trying to get warm; trench duck-boards sitting awry, when a "neat-nick" would stop to put it right, the damn thing would blow up in his face. One purpose was to keep advancing troops out of doors, cold, miserable, and low-grade afraid. Of course these bombs, etc. would also slow the advancing Allies and make the withdrawal safer.

Bob Lembke

[Andy in West Oz]

As an Australian, I think I have Gallipoli bred into me. My wife and I went there on our honeymoon in Sept 05 and although we were only there for a day, it is somewhere I am not likely to forget...ever. Seeing the terrain first hand really puts all the readings in perspective. To see how well the Turks maintain the area is equally as moving as seeing the names on the various memorials and cemeteries.

[simon2]

My interest would be because of my GG.

Pte Harold Evans PLY16385 RMLI. Served at Gallipoli, wounded, missing in action (have letter from admiralty). Went on to serve on the western front with 2RM until GSW got him 18/03/1918.

Will visit one day.

Simon.

[infantry]

My grand grand father and his brother was killed side by side somewhere near Lone Pine. It was a serious blow for the family that had already lost two uncles during the disastrous Sarikamis Campaign against Russians several months before.

The tragedy did not stop in Gallipoli but went along till the end of Turkish Independence War in which more than 2/3 of all male members of the extended family was killed between 1915 and 1922.

I spent four years in Gallipoli due to my assignment and suffer emotional difficulty each time I visited the same trenches my ancestors had lost their lives.

[Sullivan]

My father was wounded at Gallipoli some time in May 1915. He landed at V Beach with the 1st battalion Royal Munster Fusiliers from the S.S. River Clyde.

2nd LIEUTENANT REGINALD B. GILLETT - HAMPSHIRE REGIMENT - in an interview with the BBC back in the 1960's said when he landed at V Beach from the same ship -

"The sight that met our eyes was indescribable, the barges now linked together and more or less reaching the shore were piled high with mutilated bodies, and between the last barge and the sand was a pier formed by piles of dead men.

It was impossible to reach land without treading on the dead, the sea round the cove was red with blood."

Sullivan.

[Borden Battery]

Here is the start of a growing list on Gallipoli and the Middle East theatre of operation during the Great War.

Borden Battery

--------------------------------------------------

General Great War Middle East - Part 22

Note: CEF Study Group member websites denoted with asterisk "*"

==============================================

The T. E. Lawrence Society

The T. E. Lawrence Society, formed at Wareham, Dorset, in 1985, is a non-profit organization registered under British law as an educational charity. There are currently around 600 members, of whom two-thirds live in the U.K. [CEF Study Group - March 2006]

http://www.telsociety.org/

Turkey in the First World War

This intelligent website adds the Turkish perspective in the Great War. The presentation is based on several Turkish resources and will be of interest to researchers. The website is organized into the following elements with nested sub-grouping and includes: Prelude to War, Campaigns, Aftermath, Chronology, Army, Navy, Aviation, Home Front, Economy, Who's Who, Documents and Featured Articles. Based on the clean format, this site is capable of adding more material with quick access. A few areas are still under construction. Some images do not appear under Mozilla and this site is best viewed with Microsoft Internet Explorer 6.0+. There is also the start of a small discussion forum [Yahoo]. Well worth visiting. [CEF Study Group - June 2006]

http://www.turkeyswar.com/

This 5-part documentation of the Battle of Gallipoli/ Çanakkale Savaşları provides a more detailed overview of the battle.

[CEF Study Group – Jan 2007]

http://www.turkeyswar.com/campaigns/gallipoli.htm

Medals, Orders & Decorations of the Ottoman Empire

The study of Ottoman medals, orders and decorations offers an insight into the declining years of the empire. The first known Ottoman medal dates from 1730, but it wasn't until Napoleon's invasion of Egypt that the first wearable medal was established. The vast majority of Ottoman orders and medals were created in the 19th century, as the Empire struggled to modernize and fought to retain its distant territories and diverse people. These decorations are symbols of the fierce pride, the fading glory and the inevitable fragmentation of this ancient regime. [CEF Study Group - May 2006]

http://www.turkishmedals.net/

The Gallipoli Campaign

This website provides a chronological summary of the Gallipoli campaign with a patriotic Turkish perspective. The site is divided into some of the following elements: Before the Campaign, Naval Attack, Air Assault, Results, includes photographs, an extensive bibliography of Turkish and English texts and some short but personal memoirs of some of the aged veteran Turkish soldiers. Again, a different perspective on the campaign. [CEF Study Group - June 2006]

http://www.canakkale.gen.tr/eng/engindex.html

Turkey Prepares for War 1913-1914

A simple sub-set of the Great War Society website. Provides general information on Turkey during the Great War. [CEF Study Group - Nov 2006]

http://www.worldwar1.com/neareast/ta.htm

The Gallipoli Houses – Pictures

This sub-set of the website [http://www.gallipoli.com.tr – hit “English” button at bottom of page] takes you first to Gallipoli House and then to a significant number of photographs of cemeteries and memorials on the Gallipoli Peninsula and the site of the infamous Battle of Gallipolii or “Çanakkale Savaşları“ from the Turkish side. Some of the material is still “under construction” and this site will be monitored for updates. [Ozlem & Eric are contributors to the GWF][CEF Study Group – Jan 2007]

http://www.gallipoli.com.tr/pages/peninsula%20pics.htm

Battle of Gallipoli – Wikipedia Site

This Wikipedia site provides a concise overview of the Battle of Gallipoli or Çanakkale Savaşları and servers as an introduction to this topic.

[CEF Study Group – Jan 2007]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Gallipoli

Royal Engineers Museum – Gallipoli Expedition (1915-1916)

A short account of the Royal Engineers (BEF) in the Great War with this link providing specific details of their actions at the Battle of Gallipoli.

[CEF Study Group – Jan 2007]

http://www.remuseum.org.uk/corpshistory/re...rt14.htm#gallip

Five Months at Anzac - Beeston, Joseph Lievesley, 1859-1921

A Narrative of Personal Experiences of the Officer Commanding the 4th Field Ambulance, Australian Imperial Force. This document can be downloaded and read. No copyright in the USA. [Guttenburg Project][CEF Study Group – Jan 2007]

http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/15896

Gallipoli Guide

This Government of New Zeland guide provides a virtual tour of the peninsula. It features maps, images and interactive panoramas along with short histories and information about the battles, and memorials and cemeteries where New Zealanders are named or interred. [CEF Study Group – Jan 2007]

http://www.anzac.govt.nz/gallipoliguide/index.html

Despatches from Gallipoli – Scenes from a Remote War

Charles Bean, Keith Murdoch, Phillip Schuler and Charles Smith were four Australians who went to Gallipoli as journalists during World War 1. This website aims to introduce these men and their writing, as well as to highlight their role in the development of an Australian identity. This site is made available through a grant from the Distinctively Australian program, administered by the Commonwealth Department of Environment and Heritage.

[CEF Study Group – Jan 2007]

http://www.nla.gov.au/gallipolidespatches/

[bob lembke]

Here is the start of a growing list on Gallipoli and the Middle East theatre of operation during the Great War.

Borden Battery

Medals, Orders & Decorations of the Ottoman Empire

The study of Ottoman medals, orders and decorations offers an insight into the declining years of the empire. The first known Ottoman medal dates from 1730, but it wasn't until Napoleon's invasion of Egypt that the first wearable medal was established. The vast majority of Ottoman orders and medals were created in the 19th century, as the Empire struggled to modernize and fought to retain its distant territories and diverse people. These decorations are symbols of the fierce pride, the fading glory and the inevitable fragmentation of this ancient regime. [CEF Study Group - May 2006]

http://www.turkishmedals.net/

Borden;

There is an interesting item in the Askeri Mueze (Military Museum) in Istanbul that is pre-1730 and is a "decoration", of sorts. A silver-plated musket.

On a military campaign a sultan wanted to see how alert his sentries were, so late at night he slipped out and made his way to the perimeter of the camp. approached a sentry and attempted to talk his way past the sentry. The sentry would not let him pass, and when he persisted the sentry reversed his musket and tried to knock the sultan's brains out. Somehow that was prevented, and the alert sentry was rewarded, additionally, his musket was taken, silver-plated, and returned to him, so that for the rest of his career the other soldiers could always know of his diligent duty.

Bob Lembke

[RedCoat]

I'm interested because my great uncle William Creed was killed there with 5th batt wilts reg.

Donnie

[Gyrene]

I like Gallipoli because it was the only major amphibious operation of the war. I've come to the conclusion that the Turks are never given enough credit for their wartime achievements. The Germans had one heck of an ally in Ottoman Turkey.

[John Gilinsky]

Interested in Gallipoli because of the maritime medical evacuation modes (specifically hospital ships) and because of Imperial mythology (ANZACS) which roughly corresponds with the Canadian (CEF) mythology of turning near defeats into great victories (2nd. Ypres for the CEF).

John

Toronto

Other reasons too: bravery of well led Turkish troops, futility of half-baked and less than half-hearted supports for offensives,etc....

[regatta]

As an Australian the Gallipoli story has always been with us , but now my perspective has changed as I recently discovered my grandfather had landed there with reinforcements in December.

Am currently reading the McCay biography by Christopher Wray.

[rcrawley]

I am interested in the Dardanelles and Gallipoli campaign. Not because of any family connection, but more because I have been learning about the campaign since school. Being an Australian, this focus has of course been primarily on the role of the Australian troops - and to a lesser extent the New Zealand, and even more so the British, French, Canadian, Indian and of course Turkish. Because of this Australian focus, I am now trying to read up on my awareness of the other fighting forces; starting with Christopher Pugsley (for NZ), Nigel Steel, Peter Hart, Aspinall-Oglander and Rhodes James (for GB). Not sure what I will look at for the French, but for the Turkish, most probably the usuall texts (Fewster et al, Liman von Sanders, Bean - Gallipoli Mission).

Its great to find so many other people interested in the campaign - and what is even better is that so many of the postings are from people outside of Australia. I can't wait to see what else is discussed.

Rhys

[Guest nobelius]

I still have not taken the time to look at that site for this purpose, as I am rushing to finish a book, and we are getting into tax season here, but I will; for years I have kept my eyes open for material on this, but have seen very little to date. Many thanks for the tip. Pop told me that they busily put in lots of booby-traps, mortar shells in stove flues to blow up the blokes trying to get warm; trench duck-boards sitting awry, when a "neat-nick" would stop to put it right, the damn thing would blow up in his face. One purpose was to keep advancing troops out of doors, cold, miserable, and low-grade afraid. Of course these bombs, etc. would also slow the advancing Allies and make the withdrawal safer.

Bob Lembke

Bob

Finished the tax chores yet?

On reading through this as an Australian just visiting, the name NIELD jumped off the page. I recalled seeing it during school attendances at St Ignatius Church, Richmond a Melbourne suburb. Thats a few years back but the location Bapaume also rang bells. On checking the AWM site suggested above, I note that he was not the Canteen Attendant killed in the Town Hall,,, it was his mate. The Australians were not using civilians, both attendants were in the Army.

Incidently to show I am not a bigot, I also visited St Paul's Anglican Cathederal in Melbourne and noted that they have an ANZAC Red Poppy Trail in which "Each poppy marks a memorial plaque which mentions war service" It includes a Dunkirk Historic Flag, the Cross from the grave of an Unknown Soldier, plaques to Edith Cavell, Harry Chauvel, 3 Steele brothers KIA (inc Capt F W A 7th Royal Fusiliers) That sure saves a lot of time reading inxscriptions.

[ShirlD]

Apart from the whole story of Gallipoli and its effect on us today, my father-in-law and his brother were there. I have also managed to visit the graves at Gallipoli of the old boys of the school we work at. and laid little crosses made by the lads today.

Rest in peace:

Ray Egerton Cook, 7th Light Horse, Shell Green

Charlton Hogart Proctor, Shell Green

Gresley Tatlock Harper, 10th Light Horse, Lone Pine

Wilfred Lukin Harper, 10th Light Horse, Lone Pine

Dudley Lukin, 10th Light Horse, Lone Pine

Arthur Henry Mountain, 6 Lone Pine

Vernon Frederick Piesse, 6 Lone Pine

Keith Everard Watt, 10th Light Horse, Ari Burnu

James T Wilkerson, Baby 700

We will remember you.

It chokes me up thinking of each now as I write their names.

Some day I hope to visit the graves of the lads who died at the Western Front.

Cheers

Shirley

[Bryn]

Chris,

Am I right in assuming you work at Guildford Grammar School in WA?

If so, are there any photos, memorials, or memorial books in the school containing details or pictures of these Old Boys?