Boreenatra Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Steve. I checked out the Who's Who as well, and got the same as you, however I did notice there was an Arthur Marsden from Buxton who played for Cheethams School and also for Derbyshire, who died of wounds at the battle of the Somme. I played for my school team but I'm not in there!!! An email to Peter Wynne Thomas et al I think!!! As for the Aussies, well possibly more than those first four could be needed. I'll see if I can come up with a team that could win. Will have to be say pre ww2. ( that gives us a bit of a chance!!) Regards Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 30 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Steve. Just to keep in the spirit of things here's a WW1 team that would do the job. ( in batting order) Jack Hobbs ( Capt. ) Geo. Gunn J.W. Hearne C.P.Mead John W.H.T.Douglas Frank Woolley Gilbert Jessop Herbert Strudwick (W/K) Percy "Bill" Fender Alexander Kennedy Sydney Barnes This would do for me. Attached Gilbert Jessop at a recruiting drive. Regards Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbo Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 The Sunday Times magazine of 22 May included an article on sportsmen in World War 1 entitled Sport's Fallen Heroes. It featured: Tony Wilding; New Zealander, Wimbledon champion, Royal Marines, killed Neuve Chapelle 9/5/15: The Heart of Midlothian football team, many of whom joined McCrae's Battalion (16th Royal Scots): Ronnie Poulton-Palmer, England Rugby captain, Royal Berkshires, killed at Ploegsteert Wood 5/5/15: Donald Bell, Bradford city footballer, Green Howards, awarded posthumous VC 5/7/16: Percy Jeeves, Warwickshire cricketer, Royal Warwickshire, killed High Wood, 22/7/16: Gerard "Twiggy" Anderson, athlete (hurdler), Cheshire Regiment, killed Hooge November 1914: Walter Tull, second black player in the Football League, Middlesex Regiment, killed on the Somme 25/3/18: Frederick Septimus Kelly, Australian rower, Royal Naval Division, killed 13/11/15, aqt Beucourt-sur-Acre. Unfortunately I can't provide a link to the full article as you have to pay to look more than a week back on the Times website. The author of the article, Carol Kennedy, is writing a book on the subject. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AGWR Posted 30 May , 2005 Share Posted 30 May , 2005 Another cricketer killed was the young Australian, Norman Callaway. A batsman of much promise, he scored 207 runs on his first-class debut, in what sadly transpired to be in his only innings in first-class cricket. Sadly, he was killed on 3rd May 1917. Regards, AGWR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 31 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Steve P Thanks for the message. Here's a few. Private R.B.Day - World's Champion Runner Sergeant Major Cumming - Champion Walker of England Private J.J.Williams - ( Julian Brandon) Well known conjurer and entertainer. Journalist and Lecturer on Psychology. Private A.H.Toogood - Professional golfer. Champion Midlands Counties. Represented England v Scotland 1904-5-6-7. Lance Corporal Edward Leith - Song writer and Stage Manager. Private A.E.Dunn - Late Mayor of Exeter and ex M.P. Private W.Albany - World famous Champion Sculler. Lieut Norman A.L.Cockell - Had the reputation of being the best all round sportsman in the Battalion. He ws also the best shot. Corporal Alfred Burden Wharton - Comedian. Well known London entertainer, making a speciality of curate studies. Private Douglas Henderson - Had ridden across the Andes where previous to the war he had been travelling for six years. Hon. Bernard Yorke (Son of Lord Hardwicke) - Well known sportsman and big game hunter Private Jerry Delaney - Lightweight Champion Boxer of England Private C.E.Gaskell - One of the finest all round sportsman in the North of England. Was known as the "Baby" of hut 25 "Unity Hall" I'll see what other ones I can come up with Regards Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Cox Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Hi Steve I work with the nephew of Pte spts/1431 Jerry Delaney killed in action at Delville Wood, i know he has got photo's of Jerry in his boxing days, if i can get him to bring them in to work again i will copy and put them up on the forum. tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 31 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Tony. Great if you can get a pic. Steve.Found some pics of Percy Fender in both WW1 and WW2 Uniforms ( 23years apart ) WW1 Royal Flying Corps in 1917 / WW2 R.A.F. 1940' Some good stuff about P.G.H. Fender. He enlisted Wed 2nd September 1914 for training, Inns of Court Regiment. He was commissioned as Lieutenant in the Royal Fusiliers. He disliked the army life which he found irritating. He once said that he was thankful when someone dropped a sandbag on his foot so he couldn't drill for a couple of weeks.He became a trainee pilot at Norwich with the RFC. He trained in the Maurice Farman Shorthorn and Longhorn biplanes which he describes as boxkites held together with string, with open cockpits and basic controls and a top speed of 60-70 mph. After only 4 1/2hrs flying time he flew solo. Here's his own account of an encounter on that flight. " Flying over Great Yarmouth, I was on my way home and had turned right to look over the sea when I saw this Hun plane. I remember I was sitting on an empty sugar crate because my seat was too low. I had a rifle strapped to the fuselage outside because we had orders to be armed, but I never used it. Looking back, it was a waste of time as you couldn't shoot properly and fly at the same time. We trainees had strict instructions to avoid contact with any other planes especially German ones, and I turned back inland. Later my CO showed me a letter from some local mayor reporting a British flyer had shown gross cowardice by not protecting the population from the darstardly actions of the Germans. He laughed and assured me I had done the right thing!" He also was another who played football as well. He played in goal for The Casuals, The Corinthians, and non league for Fulham. He also played for the famous Leopold Club while stationed in Belgium. Great stuff. Regards Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 31 May , 2005 Share Posted 31 May , 2005 And at one time scorer of the fastest century (without the help of contrived finishes), and also I believe, when he died a year or so back, the oldest-living English test cricketer. Wasn't he vice captain on the Bodyline Tour? And, Steve, is your XI not a bit light on bowling? Bring in Colin Blythe for one of the batsmen (Mead? - a Hampshire man so I should keep him in...don't tell the membership committee at the Rose Bowl...but not that strong international pedigree). Blythe also was a slow 'un. Anyone mentioned Reggie Scwarz - South African googlie bowler who died in 1918. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 31 May , 2005 Author Share Posted 31 May , 2005 Steve. This lot will do. Frank Woolley might have bowled them out on his own. You're right about Fender, although the county scorebook of Surrey went AWOL during the second world war, although the Northants book had appeared to have been altered, and in any case doesn't add up . Interestingly, like a lot of old cricketers he went blind in later life. He also took six wickets in eleven balls against. Middx in 1927. This cricket stuff is great. Regards Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 Steve. This lot will do. Frank Woolley might have bowled them out on his own. You're right about Fender, although the county scorebook of Surrey went AWOL during the second world war, although the Northants book had appeared to have been altered, and in any case doesn't add up . Interestingly, like a lot of old cricketers he went blind in later life. He also took six wickets in eleven balls against. Middx in 1927. This cricket stuff is great. Regards Steve. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And thanks, Steve, for not picking me up on my faux pas - Bob Wyatt (Warwickshire) was vice captain to Jardine. Fender wasn't even on the tour. Fender's role was to act as the go between at the 1932 August bank Holiday meeting when Notts played at the Oval; he brought Voce, Larwood and Jardine together (with Notts Captain, Arthur Carr) to discuss tactics on the forthcoming tour. Thank you for being kind enough to ignore my schoolboy error. Back to class for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 1 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 1 June , 2005 Thats O.K. mate cos I didn't spot it. But there was a constant "dialogue" between Fender and Jardine over the Surrey captaincy for example and despite the press reports to the contary they had a respect for each others ability. He said he would never tutor Jardine or deliberately try to teach him anything, but he often would explain form slip where he fielded to Jardine in the gully what he was trying to do. Two captains from different times meant that their ideas were hugely different. Fender however had received from Australia letters from the press reports of the Aussies difficulties in batting against West Indies in 1930-31 and South Africa in 1931-32. He didn't know Jardines's plans for the Tests but he took these reports to Jardine at a weekend at Walton- On -Thames, where they discussed how the Australians would try to avoid off-side strokes.Larwood's natural delivery was an inswinger to the right handers and concluded that if Larwood and Voce bowled short and straight, in the Australian conditions,( which was a critical factor) they would be in big trouble against this type of attack and from that the Bodyline theory came into being. In that game you mentioned. Fender scored a hundred, coincidentally his only previous century that summer was also against Notts, these two being his last two first class hundreds. He only batted against Voce (Larwood being injured) who Fender claimed bowled the fastest balls to him he ever had received. I fell there might be more to come here. Regards Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 1 June , 2005 Share Posted 1 June , 2005 Going back a way, did anyone mention Lionel, Lord Tennyson, in this thread (I can't remember) - captain of Hampshire and quondam officer in the RB. Had a rough war, by all accounts, but never decorated. His valet, Walter Livesey, was wicket keeper for the county and featured in that amazing match at Birmingham when Hants came back from 15 all out to win. My dad met Walter in the last war (keeping a pub, rather than wicket). On the Bodyline matter, "Ashes in the Mouth" is a good read on the series. My hero has to ne Eddie Paynter, rising from his sick-bed. They don't, they really don't, make 'em like that any more. Also, I believe Fast Leg Theory was born when Bradman was seen to move sharply to leg when faced with fast, straight, balls - hence the plan to follow him, and with Larwood, Voce and Bowes (the unsung member of the team), Jardine had the weapons. I'm always ambivalent about Gubby Allen - as an amateur he had the power to say 'No' to Jardine: the rest didn't. Anyone else out there with an opinion, or should we move to Chit Chat? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 8 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 June , 2005 Steve P ( Page 400 ) suggested Walter Tull was worth a look at. First black player at Tottenham. Interesting article on CWGC site. Click publications and scroll down to Sportsmen and Women. Regards Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bernardmcilwaine Posted 8 June , 2005 Share Posted 8 June , 2005 Anyone have any info on 1st Sportsman's Battalion ( 23rd Royal Fusiliers). Regards Steve. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> steve,do you think that the batts wanted to keep the numbers restricted to the original issue and if a man were discharged/killed/transferred,then his number would become vacant, ready for the next recruit,the police do that,when a officer is no longer with the force,his number goes to the next recruit,bernard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve shepherd Posted 8 June , 2005 Share Posted 8 June , 2005 hi all good to see this one is still running a good site to read about walter tull is at www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/FWWtull.htm it has all the info on him with some nice pictures steve p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 8 June , 2005 Share Posted 8 June , 2005 steve,do you think that the batts wanted to keep the numbers restricted to the original issue and if a man were discharged/killed/transferred,then his number would become vacant, ready for the next recruit,the police do that,when a officer is no longer with the force,his number goes to the next recruit,bernard <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Dunno. Possible, I guess, but that would get very confusing. That said, I can't se any other reason why we have this discrepancy over numbers, so you could well be right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boreenatra Posted 8 June , 2005 Author Share Posted 8 June , 2005 Bernard. There has been several discussions on numbering in general, and I think the conclusion was that the no's were overhauled in 1918 ( i'm sure someone will correct that if i'm wrong) but it seemed to have created more confusion than there was before. Perhaps a bit like phone no's. You could fix it once and for all if you really wanted to!! Regards Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 December , 2005 Share Posted 18 December , 2005 The Battalion History (Fred W Ward) has a full nominal roll, Roll of Honour (quite detailed) and an Honours List. Happy to look up if you want. My uncle was serving with the 23rd RF when he was killed on Sept 30th 1918, I have looked up the war diary for this and also worked out who else was killed as they are all buried in one cemetery Noyelles.I have the letters from the battalion to his Mother re his death. He was attached to the battalion as he was 2nd Lieut 7th Royal Dublin Fusiliers which was also a sportsmens battalion. I have never manged to look at the Ward history does it by any chance list when William Jackson joined the battalion though I know of its existence. If you are going through the book,I would be pleased to know if he is mentioned.He joined in 1914 and survived the landing at Sulva Bay. Tom Jackson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted 18 December , 2005 Share Posted 18 December , 2005 Has anyone come across this man: SPTS-2296 Pte W. R. W. Biddlecombe Many thanks Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 18 December , 2005 Share Posted 18 December , 2005 Tom & Steve - no dice, I'm afraid. W Jackson is listed as killed on the date in question, and of R W Biddlecombe there appears to be nary a word! The initial nominal roll (of those who joined at the Hotel Cecil or at Hornchurch) numbers up to 2000, with odd assorted numbers up to 4075 - but not 2296. Sorry. The book isn't great on detail - it's more chatty, I'm afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yellow Posted 18 December , 2005 Share Posted 18 December , 2005 Many thanks for your time on this. Thanks, Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted 18 December , 2005 Share Posted 18 December , 2005 Tom & Steve - no dice, I'm afraid. W Jackson is listed as killed on the date in question, and of R W Biddlecombe there appears to be nary a word! The initial nominal roll (of those who joined at the Hotel Cecil or at Hornchurch) numbers up to 2000, with odd assorted numbers up to 4075 - but not 2296. Sorry. The book isn't great on detail - it's more chatty, I'm afraid. Steven,thank you for checking,I can stop looking for the Ward book. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markacable Posted 11 May , 2007 Share Posted 11 May , 2007 Not sure if I'm repeating something but this is a great book and it's free.... http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20377/20377-8.txt Does anyone have any information about my namesake? Details in this post (post number 272 on page 14) Cheers Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milner Posted 11 May , 2007 Share Posted 11 May , 2007 Steve Do you have anything on my grandfather Albert Henry Burt private spts 4416. I'm not sure if he was 23rd or 24th. Thanks Phil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steven Broomfield Posted 11 May , 2007 Share Posted 11 May , 2007 Mark - Pte M Cable (1942) kia 14.11.16, probably in the action at the Ancre - I'll scan and post the battalion history entry later. Phil - nothing, I'm afraid. I wonder, with a number as high as his, whether he was 24th Battalion. Sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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