7th and 9th Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders Ypres 1915

[ianmccallum]

Hello Colin

I was advised about your reply to Canuk on 13 July. In it you mention the 7 A&SH War Diary. I am researching a Pte James McMahon 7 A&SH who DOW 17 Feb 1915. I have it he died from a shotgun wound to the head. He must have been one of the first casualties. Can you tell me what the battalion was doing around that time and if there is any mention of the incident.

Cheers

Ian

Sounds like an interesting project. The 7th ASH war diary contains casualty lists for the 9th Bn during May. PM me an email address and I can send them over. 2667 Pte J S Thomson was reported as wounded on the 10th May but was fit for duty by the 16th - could that be the chap whose quote you have?

Hope this helps

Colin

[Col_H]

Hi Canuk

This might help...these are the movements from arrival at Le Havre to their initial deyployment on the 5th April

Feb 20th To Havre, 23rd to Cassel, 24th to St Marie Chapel (or Cappel), 27th to Mount Kokerele near Boeschepe.

March 7th To huts at Rosenhill (on the Zevecoten to La Clytle road), from the 9th to the 19th platoons from various companies take turns in the trenches at Dickebusch (the battalion line runs close to the village of St Eloi and runs close around the village on it's east side and to the south) attached to the 1st Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, the 2nd Camerons and other units to gain some experience of life in the trenches. There were a small number of casualties during that period. 22nd 500 men employed in digging on the 2nd line in the St Eloi section, 23rd to Mount Kokerele, 26th to Ypres, 150 men sent to dig on 2nd line south of Porte De Lille. Continued in this role until the end of the month.

April 1st billeted in the town of Ypres. Supplied working parties for digging lines south of Ypres until the 4th. 4th took over trenches at Dumbarton Lake, 5th herentbeg. HQ in wood shelled, our dugout struck by shell, 8 casualties, 3 killed, 5 wounded.

My two great Uncles were killed in this dugout struck by the shell....one died within hours the other 10 days later in a hospital in Bolougne

[warthur]

Very many thnks . That is most helpful - I now have a listing of all the 1/9th men killed or D0W 1915 /16 . What were the names of your uncles ?

[Colin W Taylor]

Canuk

Pages were sent to ronald@kingston.net 23 July. If you didn't get them I'll re-send

Ian

Many apologies, I can't help, I've only got Apr to Jul 1915.

Colin

[ianmccallum]

Colin

Thanks for taking the time to answer.

Ian

[warthur]

Canuk

Pages were sent to ronald@kingston.net 23 July. If you didn't get them I'll re-send

Ian

Many apologies, I can't help, I've only got Apr to Jul 1915.

Colin

Hi ian The adress is corrrect ronald@kingston.net but i did not receive the pages . Thanks Arthur

[jlang]

Hi

Can I hijack this thread just a little? Tom gave a quote about the disbandment of the 1/9^th A&SH.I think my great uncle was in the 1/9^th A&SH. His MICgives him as A&SH with 2 numbers, one short and one long, thelatter I take to be given after the Territorial renumbering in 1917and is in the 1/9^th allocation range. The card shows hewent to France on 19 Feb 1915. So, even if my assumption of hisentry to France was with the 1/9^th is wrong, my reading ofthe significance of the 1/9^th allocation is that he waswith the 1/9^th not the 1/8^th and that the 1/9^thwere still in existence. This is consistent with the following givenin the Long Long Trail for the Battalion.

viz.

1/9th(The Dumbartonshire) Battalion

August1914 : at Dumbarton. Part of Argyll & Sutherland HighlandersBrigade in the Highland Division. Moved to Bedford.

Early 1915 :left Division and landed in France.

23 February 1915 : came underorders of 81st Brigade in 27th Division.

21 May 1915 : transferredto 10th Brigade in 4th Division and on 27 May amalgamated with 1/7thBn, resuming identity on 20 July. Left Division and became CorpsTroops to VI Corps.

27 February 1916 : moved to base and used as adraft-supplying unit.

The Long Long Trail is thus inconsistent with Malcolm’s wee greenbook. It would be good to know just what became of the battalionafter 2^nd Ypres. The temporary amalgamation with the 7th is also consistent with the 9th casualty lists being in the 7th diary.

In the Long Long Trail quote, (the Dumbartonshire) Battalion shouldsurely be (The Dunbartonshire) Battalion?

I am hoping to get to Kew to check the references on the MIC to seeif I can confirm the battalion. He came from Kirkintilloch which isin the 1/9^th recruiting area.

Cheers

Jim

PS Colin , do you have a copy of the 1/7 A&SH war diaries?

[Colin W Taylor]

Canuk

Sent again.

Jim

Apologies, I've got 1/9th ASH Apr 15 and 1/7th ASH Apr to Jul 15. I can send you them if it'll save a trip to the PRO. Not much help for this discussion however.

Col

[warthur]

Canuk

Pages were sent to ronald@kingston.net 23 July. If you didn't get them I'll re-send

Ian

Many apologies, I can't help, I've only got Apr to Jul 1915.

Colin

Thank you so very much . I recived the pages today .

[warthur]

Hi

Can I hijack this thread just a little? Tom gave a quote about the disbandment of the 1/9^th A&SH.I think my great uncle was in the 1/9^th A&SH. His MICgives him as A&SH with 2 numbers, one short and one long, thelatter I take to be given after the Territorial renumbering in 1917and is in the 1/9^th allocation range. The card shows hewent to France on 19 Feb 1915. So, even if my assumption of hisentry to France was with the 1/9^th is wrong, my reading ofthe significance of the 1/9^th allocation is that he waswith the 1/9^th not the 1/8^th and that the 1/9^thwere still in existence. This is consistent with the following givenin the Long Long Trail for the Battalion.

viz.

1/9th(The Dumbartonshire) Battalion

August1914 : at Dumbarton. Part of Argyll & Sutherland HighlandersBrigade in the Highland Division. Moved to Bedford.

Early 1915 :left Division and landed in France.

23 February 1915 : came underorders of 81st Brigade in 27th Division.

21 May 1915 : transferredto 10th Brigade in 4th Division and on 27 May amalgamated with 1/7thBn, resuming identity on 20 July. Left Division and became CorpsTroops to VI Corps.

27 February 1916 : moved to base and used as adraft-supplying unit.

The Long Long Trail is thus inconsistent with Malcolm's wee greenbook. It would be good to know just what became of the battalionafter 2^nd Ypres. The temporary amalgamation with the 7th is also consistent with the 9th casualty lists being in the 7th diary.

In the Long Long Trail quote, (the Dumbartonshire) Battalion shouldsurely be (The Dunbartonshire) Battalion?

I am hoping to get to Kew to check the references on the MIC to seeif I can confirm the battalion. He came from Kirkintilloch which isin the 1/9^th recruiting area.

Cheers

Jim

PS Colin , do you have a copy of the 1/7 A&SH war diaries?

Hi Jim , I am working my way through a lsit of KIA and DOW for the 1/9th I have found sveral who are listed to the 1/9th and were listed as KIA in 196 and 197 - after the 1/9th were disbanded .

e.g.

Sgt William Gardiner 325135 ( note the long the numbering) KIA 18.10 /17

Pte John Gray 325760 KIA 16/.5/17.

[jlang]

Hi Colin,

Thanks for the offer. Can you pleasesend them electronically? I think I have set my profile so you canget my email. I can't access the members information. I shouldconfess I live closer to Stirling Castle than Kew and keep meaning tomake the 90 minute journey to AS&H museum. I will try harder!

Jim

[jlang]

Hi Canuk,

Thanks for the info. Please can youkeep me informed of your progress. I think your project will reallyhelp me trace what my great uncle was up to in the war. For therecord he was Church Campbell (an easy name to search), a private inthe A&SH with nos 2363 and 325382. He survived the war and diedin 1986. Unfortunately, I never asked him about his militaryservice.

By the way, at the risk of telling yousomething you have known for years, are you aware of this site -

http://www.glasgow.gov.uk/en/Residents/Library_Services/Family_Local_History/eveningtimesrollofhonour.htm ?

Jim

[Anthony Bagshaw]

Jim,

Can i thank you for adding that link to your posting? I am researching a 1/9th lad who was killed on the 24th May 1915 who seems to have a photo in the Evening Times of 8th June 1915. I cannot tell you how happy i am!!!

Can i ask how easy it is to get a copy of the photo? I live in Nottinghamshire a fair way from Glasgow so the chances of me going myself are extremely slim. I would love a copy to add to my research file i hold on him. I would be grateful for any advice or pointers.

Thanks

[Colin W Taylor]

Canuk

I saw something and thought of you!

I got a pile of books out from the Aldershot Town Library - amongst them was 'The Unseen Host' by Charles L Warr. The dedication was to James Clarke and Kenneth James Campbell - CO and subaltern of 9th ASH respectively. The book contains a few works of fiction or near fact stories. The chapter 'Sed miles sed pro patria' gives a loose account of some aspects of the battalion at Hooge 10 May 15 - the author was there and witnessed events (supposedly was wounded by the same shell as the CO) - what is truth and what is hyperbole I'll leave to you.

I was going to copy it for you - however a search reveals you can download it from here: http://www.archive.org/details/unseenhoststorie00warruoft

The paragraph describing Kenneth Campbell wheeling his MG into action on a wheelbarrow through heavy fire slightly amused me.

I hope this is of use.

[Colin W Taylor]

Jim

Apologies I can't see your email address - it's down as private. If you can post it I can send some tonight (I'll forward the message I sent to Canuk), the rest may have to wait for the weekend as my internet isn't too reliable.

Colin

[warthur]

Canuk

I saw something and thought of you!

I got a pile of books out from the Aldershot Town Library - amongst them was 'The Unseen Host' by Charles L Warr. The dedication was to James Clarke and Kenneth James Campbell - CO and subaltern of 9th ASH respectively. The book contains a few works of fiction or near fact stories. The chapter 'Sed miles sed pro patria' gives a loose account of some aspects of the battalion at Hooge 10 May 15 - the author was there and witnessed events (supposedly was wounded by the same shell as the CO) - what is truth and what is hyperbole I'll leave to you.

I was going to copy it for you - however a search reveals you can download it from here: http://www.archive.o...torie00warruoft

The paragraph describing Kenneth Campbell wheeling his MG into action on a wheelbarrow through heavy fire slightly amused me.

I hope this is of use.

Colin That is terrific , i can't thank enough . I had no idea that such a book existed . I will really enjoy reading it . Thank goodness it can be downloaded . Best regards Arthur

[warthur]

Hi Canuk,

Thanks for the info. Please can youkeep me informed of your progress. I think your project will reallyhelp me trace what my great uncle was up to in the war. For therecord he was Church Campbell (an easy name to search), a private inthe A&SH with nos 2363 and 325382. He survived the war and diedin 1986. Unfortunately, I never asked him about his militaryservice.

By the way, at the risk of telling yousomething you have known for years, are you aware of this site -

http://www.glasgow.g...ollofhonour.htm ?

Jim

Hi Jim No I was not awareof the site . Thanks a million . Arthur

[warthur]

Jim,

Can i thank you for adding that link to your posting? I am researching a 1/9th lad who was killed on the 24th May 1915 who seems to have a photo in the Evening Times of 8th June 1915. I cannot tell you how happy i am!!!

Can i ask how easy it is to get a copy of the photo? I live in Nottinghamshire a fair way from Glasgow so the chances of me going myself are extremely slim. I would love a copy to add to my research file i hold on him. I would be grateful for any advice or pointers.

Thanks

Hi Jim , I am in a similar situation only more so being in Canada and not likely to be in Glasgow for some time . Do you know the Mitchell offers any copying service or better still digital imaging of the files . i would love to get info and phtos on all of the 1/9th entries .

Regards Arthur

[jlang]

Hi

Firstly, Colin, I have changed my profile so you should be able to email me. I tried to PM you but got a message saying that you could not accept any more messages.

Secondly, I will phone the MItchell Library in Glasgow when I get a chance and ask them about getting photos etc. I'm not hopeful as I think the Evening Times archive is on microfilm.

Thanks for the book download tip.

Cheers

Jim

[warthur]

Thanks Jim . I am sure you are corect about the Mitchell. i will just ahve to plan a visit to galsgow one of those days . I was born in Glasgow but have not been back for a few years . Arthur

[jlang]

Hi

I phoned the Mitchell Library on thenumber given on the Evening Times Roll of Honour web page. The ladysaid if you turned up at the library and got the microfiche out, youcould make a copy for 50p. However, she also said they dealt withpeople who could not visit the library. The downsides are that theservice is slow and the minimum invoice is £4. I think the way shetalked I could have ordered a copy over the phone. The web page alsogives an email address.

Jim

[warthur]

Hi

I phoned the Mitchell Library on thenumber given on the Evening Times Roll of Honour web page. The ladysaid if you turned up at the library and got the microfiche out, youcould make a copy for 50p. However, she also said they dealt withpeople who could not visit the library. The downsides are that theservice is slow and the minimum invoice is £4. I think the way shetalked I could have ordered a copy over the phone. The web page alsogives an email address.

Jim

Hi Jim Thank you for your efforts with the Mitchell . I think I will need to plan a visit to Glasgow next year . Regards Arthur

[jlang]

Hi Arthur,

It might be worth an email to the Mitchell. If you can make a crudish estimate of the number of copies you want and ask them what the charge would be. It might be cheaper than spending a couple of days in the Mitchell next year. By the way, I was born in Glasgow too.

Cheers

Jim

[Col_H]

Very many thnks . That is most helpful - I now have a listing of all the 1/9th men killed or D0W 1915 /16 . What were the names of your uncles ?

Lance Corporal William Johnstone and Private David Johnstone

[RBK1]

Hi to all,

I am interested in the 9th Argylls casualty list for May, 1915 - would anyone be able to help in this regard at all?

I am over there on the spot next month and the list would be really helpful.

Many thanks, in advance, for any assistance you might be able to offer.