7th and 9th Battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders Ypres 1915

[warthur]

I would be most grateful for any information about the 1/9th A&SH especially for the period April / May 1915.

I am aware of the following

1/9th (The Dumbartonshire) Battalion

August 1914 : at Dumbarton. Part of Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders Brigade in the Highland Division. Moved to Bedford.

Early 1915 : left Division and landed in France.

23 February 1915 : came under orders of 81st Brigade in 27th Division.

21 May 1915 : transferred to 10th Brigade in 4th Division and on 27 May amalgamated with 1/7th Bn, resuming identity on 20 July. Left Division and became Corps Troops to VI Corps.

27 February 1916 : moved to base and used as a draft-supplying unit

The unit war diary is silent for the period after April 30th and May 21st 1915 but it is known that duting that time the battalion lost 2 commanding officers , most of its company officers and 75% of its NCO,s and other ranks . The battalion was brigaded with the 1/9th Royal Scots and it appears that somebody mixed up the two battions in the official dispatches and history of the action . .

In aleter to the Kirkintiloch Herald on May 12th 1915 a Pte Thomson describes be at St Julien when the German's launched their gas attack . ( ? April 23rd / 24th ) Pte Thomson was wounded and lsot conciousness and when he woke up he saw the remmants of a Candian battalion " returning from their chrge that saved the Guns " I am wondering if the was the famous Canadian action at Kitchener Wood. . ( 10th and 16th battalions CEF)

The story of thisgallant teritiorial battalion has never to my knowlwdge been recognized . We are within 4 years of the 100 anniversary of the action and i would like to obtain as much information as possible with a view to writing it up in hnour of the men of the battalion and for the benefit of future generations .

All assitance would be appreciated and acknowledged

[sotonmate]

C

It might be worth finding what the 1/9 R Scots War Diary says about this period. They are under WO95/2264 and their Diary runs from Feb to Dec 1915.

Sotonmate

[Colin W Taylor]

Canuk

Sounds like an interesting project. The 7th ASH war diary contains casualty lists for the 9th Bn during May. PM me an email address and I can send them over. 2667 Pte J S Thomson was reported as wounded on the 10th May but was fit for duty by the 16th - could that be the chap whose quote you have?

Hope this helps

Colin

I would be most grateful for any information about the 1/9th A&SH especially for the period April / May 1915.

I am aware of the following

1/9th (The Dumbartonshire) Battalion

August 1914 : at Dumbarton. Part of Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders Brigade in the Highland Division. Moved to Bedford.

Early 1915 : left Division and landed in France.

23 February 1915 : came under orders of 81st Brigade in 27th Division.

21 May 1915 : transferred to 10th Brigade in 4th Division and on 27 May amalgamated with 1/7th Bn, resuming identity on 20 July. Left Division and became Corps Troops to VI Corps.

27 February 1916 : moved to base and used as a draft-supplying unit

The unit war diary is silent for the period after April 30th and May 21st 1915 but it is known that duting that time the battalion lost 2 commanding officers , most of its company officers and 75% of its NCO,s and other ranks . The battalion was brigaded with the 1/9th Royal Scots and it appears that somebody mixed up the two battions in the official dispatches and history of the action . .

In aleter to the Kirkintiloch Herald on May 12th 1915 a Pte Thomson describes be at St Julien when the German's launched their gas attack . ( ? April 23rd / 24th ) Pte Thomson was wounded and lsot conciousness and when he woke up he saw the remmants of a Candian battalion " returning from their chrge that saved the Guns " I am wondering if the was the famous Canadian action at Kitchener Wood. . ( 10th and 16th battalions CEF)

The story of thisgallant teritiorial battalion has never to my knowlwdge been recognized . We are within 4 years of the 100 anniversary of the action and i would like to obtain as much information as possible with a view to writing it up in hnour of the men of the battalion and for the benefit of future generations .

All assitance would be appreciated and acknowledged

[warthur]

Canuk

Sounds like an interesting project. The 7th ASH war diary contains casualty lists for the 9th Bn during May. PM me an email address and I can send them over. 2667 Pte J S Thomson was reported as wounded on the 10th May but was fit for duty by the 16th - could that be the chap whose quote you have?

Hope this helps

Colin

I am not sure how to send a PM I went into your profile and tired to send an e-mail but i am not sure that it went through . I acnnot see see a PM button on the web site. Arthur

[warthur]

C

It might be worth finding what the 1/9 R Scots War Diary says about this period. They are under WO95/2264 and their Diary runs from Feb to Dec 1915.

Sotonmate

That is a excellent suggestion . Thank you . Arthur

[Heid the Ba]

Colin, could I trouble you for the casualty lists? My paternal grandfather picked up a head wound at Belleward/Hooge during 2nd Ypres. Family legend states he spent less than 24 hours at the front before copping his Blighty.

Canuk, my grandfather was a pre-war territorial in Kirkintilloch, unfortunately most of the info about him died with my father but I may be able to help.

[warthur]

Colin, could I trouble you for the casualty lists? My paternal grandfather picked up a head wound at Belleward/Hooge during 2nd Ypres. Family legend states he spent less than 24 hours at the front before copping his Blighty.

Canuk, my grandfather was a pre-war territorial in Kirkintilloch, unfortunately most of the info about him died with my father but I may be able to help.

[warthur]

I seem to be having a problem with this posting - it disappeared . I will try to reconstuct waht i said .

It seems probable that your grandfather was with the 1/9th A&SH . i have manged to collect quite a bit of information about the battalion . Ther is a very intersting little publication " The Great War 1914-198 Impact on Kirkintilloch " It was published by H]Jordanhill Teachers colege in 1977 but unfortunately i believe that it is now out of print . It includes a nibver of letters to the Kirkintilloch herald from 1/9th men at the front . Ther is a letter from a Pte Hugh Tomson which describes the terribel action of may 10th in which Lt Col James Clark was killed in action . I ahave manged to obtain several bio and pictures of 1/9th officers , including Col Clark from various Rolls of Honour . Ther is a web site with a " picture :" of the action on May 10th http://www.military-art.com/mall/more.php?ProdID=9336.

One company officer Captain Robert Scott Findlay although wounded amanged to survive the caranage on May 10th only to be killed tragically in the imnfamous railway acident at Grenta on May 22nd while on his way home for a four day leave .http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quintinshill_rail_disaster

Any information would be appreciated .

Best wishes Canuk

[warthur]

Hi Colin , I received a notice that you had sent me a message . When I tried to retrive it I received an error notice . Arthur

[Anthony Bagshaw]

Sorry to gatecrash the thread, but was wondering what happened on the 24th May 1915. I have come across a young lad who was killed on that date with the 1/9th Bn and have come across 25 other soldiers who were also killed on that day.

All 26 of them are commemorated on the menin gate- none have a known grave

[warthur]

Sorry to gatecrash the thread, but was wondering what happened on the 24th May 1915. I have come across a young lad who was killed on that date with the 1/9th Bn and have come across 25 other soldiers who were also killed on that day.

All 26 of them are commemorated on the menin gate- none have a known grave

I believe that the following will provide the answer . I would very much appeciate a lisiting of the 25 men of the 1/9th whose names appear on the Menin gate

How Major George James Christie, Of The 9^th Argyll And Sutherland Highlanders (T.F.), Won The D.S.O. At The Second Battle Of Ypres.

During the night of May 9^th-10^th 1915, a draft of thirty men belonging to the 9^th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders (T.F.), all burning to take their share in the great battle which had been in progress for nearly three weeks, joined their battalion, which was occupying dugouts n the Zouave Wood near Hooge. At dawn the new arrivals were allocated; before midday they were fighting for their lives; and when evening came only two of them were fit for service. For that day was a terrible ordeal for those gallant Territorial. Early in the morning the German artillery began a heavy bombardment of the British trenches on either side of the Ypres-Menin Road, which in places were soon almost demolished, and the bombardment was followed up by an attack under cover of gas. Between 8 a.m. and 9 a.m. the 9^th Argyll's were ordered to reinforce the 2ns Cameron's with two companies, and "A" Company and "D" Company were accordingly dispatched, under the command of Major Christie. Through a terrific shellfire, Major Christie led his men to a position astride the Menin Road, two hundred yards west of Hooge, where the Cameron headquarters were. Here they dug themselves in, while the major went forward for further orders. At 9.30 he was ordered to lead one company forward to reinforce a trench south of the Menin Road, and between it and the Sanctuary Wood, which was reported to be breaking. "A" Company, being stationed on the south side of the road, was chosen, and advanced in short rushes, with cries of "Good old 9^th Argyll's!" The advance lay over a bare slope right to the ridge opposite Chateau Hooge, without a ditch, or hedge even, to afford cover from view, and was accomplished under a most murderous fire. But though comrades were falling to right and left of him, not one of those brave Scotsmen wavered, but only became the keener to come to close grips with the Huns. They were only just in time, for the gas, on top of the terrible shelling, had been more than flesh and blood could endure. The trench, which they had come to save, had broken, and the men were falling back. At sight of the Argyll's, however, they raised a cheer, and passing through them, the Territorial dashed into the trench, bayoneted or chased out those Germans who had already gained a footing there, and, setting up their machine guns, began to mow down the advancing enemy with them and rifle fire. The Huns, astonished at this unexpected resistance, fell back in confusion, and the Argyll's and Cameron's, having done what they could to repair the damage done to the trench by the enemy's shellfire, awaited developments. Presently they saw, to their astonishment, a strong force of men in Cameron kilts, advancing through the Bellewarde Wood, north of the Menin Road, toward the trenches occupied by the 91^st. Uncertain as to whether they were British or Germans, they refrained from firing, until volley upon volley from the trenches of the 91^st told them they were the enemy in disguise.

Meanwhile "B" and "C" Companies of the 9^th Argyll's had advanced from Zouave Wood to the trenches, which Major Christie's men had dug near the Menin Road. On the way, their gallant and much loved Commander, Lieutenant-Colonel Clark, and shells killed another officer. Major Christie, who had hurried back to report the new attack, dispatched "D" Company to reinforce the 91^st; but, notwithstanding the assistance of the Territorial, the latter were driven from their trenches by the determine attacks of the kilted Germans. The 9^th Argyll's and 2^nd Cameron's, though now exposed to an enfilading fire from north of the Menin Road, gallantly held their trenches against every attack, until night fell, and piles of corpses beyond their entanglements bore eloquent testimony to the deadly work of their machine guns and rifles. They had themselves lost heavily, however. Among the slain was Colonel Campbell, commanding the Cameron's, who was killed by a shell, which had landed right in the middle of a machine gun team, who work he was directing. At 2 a.m. relief arrived, and Major Christie, whom the death of Colonel Clark had left in command of the 9^th Argyll's, led his sorely tried men back to their dugouts in Zouave Wood. In that and the previous days fighting the battalion had had twelve and some three hundred men killed and wounded. Thee losses were considerably increased during the next two days, May 11^th and 12^th, when, their position having been located by a captive kite balloon sent up by the enemy, the wood was raked by a terrific shelling, which seemed to search every yard of it. Major Christie's own dugout was twice blown in, but, happily, he escaped without injury. When the shelling creased, hardly a tree of that wood remained standing; all was a jumble of broken timber and undergrowth, beneath which lay dead men, broken rifles and equipment, and torn sandbag. On the 16^th the 9^th Argyll's were sent to the rest camp at Poperinghe. But they were not permitted to enjoy even so much as one whole day's rest, as, scarcely had they arrived, when orders came to join the 10^th Brigade at La Brique. Just after dawn on May 24^th, while they were occupying the support trenches northeast of Saint-Jean, the enemy started bombarding our front with asphyxiating shells and immediately afterwards gas was released from the cylinders against the whole three miles of front from Shelltrap Farm to the Bellewaarde Lake. After the gas came a violent bombardment from north, northeast and east.

Seeing that the troops in the first line trenches were beginning to give way, Major Christie at once resolved to repeat that dash to the rescue, which had saved the Cameron's trench at Hooge a fortnight before, and having adjusted their respirators, the territorial doubled across the shell swept ground which lay between them and the fire trenches. The sight which met their eyes as they reached them was terrible, for maimed and gassed men were lying everywhere. But they lost no time getting to work, and, lining the broken parapet, opened a withering fire on the advancing Germans. The enemy fell back, but soon it became apparent that their artillery was concentrating on that particular trench, while, though the German infantry fell in heaps before our fire, they continued to advance in ever increasing numbers. Major Christie saw that, if the trench was to be held, more men must be found to replace those whom we were losing every minute. As all communication with the rear had been cut, he left one of his officers in charge, and ran back to the support trench, in search of stragglers. He found a few odd lots of the Dublin Fusiliers and of his own battalion and rushed them forward. But still there were not sufficient rifles to line the parapet, so out into the fire swept open went the major again, searching for men-men with rifles. In a small isolated trench he found another odd lot, gassed and half dazed, but, though for the moment the poor fellows could be of little use, they had rifles, and, pouncing upon them, he was leading them forward, when he was hit in the leg by a piece of shell and fell to the ground. But the odd lot he was leading went on and reached the trench, and it seems to have been largely through the assistance rendered by them that the German hordes were held off until relief arrived.

Major Christie did what he could for himself with a tourniquet, until Drummer Bell, of the Argyll's came out of the trench to his assistance and after rendering first aid, went away and returned with two men of their battalion carrying a stretcher. Lifting the wounded officer on to this, they set out for the nearest dressing station; but so tremendous was the fire through which they had to pass, that they were obliged several times to stop and take refuge in a ditch or under a hedge. Major Christie begged the men to leave him and look after themselves; but these brave fellows indignantly refused to do, and, though all three were wounded, they managed to stagger on with their load until they reached the dressing station. Drummer Bell, who repeatedly interposed his own body between his wounded officer and the enemy's fire, was subsequently awarded the Distinguished Conduct Medal and the French Croix de Guerre. Major Christie, who received the Distinguished Service Order, is a native of the Vale of Leven, and the youngest son of Mr John Christie, of Levenfield, Alexandria, Dumbartonshire, chairman of the United Turkey Red Company, Limited, and its thirty-five years of age. He served for a number of years with the Alexandria and Renton Company of Volunteers, retiring with the rank of honorary major. He is a good shot and won several prizes at the Dumbartonshire Rifle Association meetings at Jamestown. At the outbreak of war he volunteered for service, and went into training with his old regiment at Bedford, proceeding to the front in February 1915. He was immensely popular with the 9^th Argyll's, alike for his dauntless courage and his solicitude fro their comfort, and it is indeed regrettable that the injuries he received will prevent him from leading them again. Extracted from 'Deeds That Thrill The Empire'

[Anthony Bagshaw]

Super, thank you.

If you let me have your email address i will send you a word document with the details attached- i have located the details from SDGW so don't know how accurate the numbers are etc as have only had a brief look.

Many thanks again

[warthur]

Thanks Anthony

Pllease send to ronald@kingston.net

You may be intested in the information below and picture attached

A Company of the 9th Argylls Advancing Under Heavy Fire to Reinforce the 2nd Camerons During the Second Battle of Ypres.

A Company of the 9th Argylls Advancing Under Heavy Fire to Reinforce the 2nd Camerons During the Second Battle of Ypres. Between 8 a.m. and 9 a.m. on May 10th 1915, during the Second Battle of Ypres, the regiment of the 9th Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders (Territorial Force) was ordered to reinforce the 2nd Camerons with two companies. Major George James Christie thereupon led A and D Companies through a terrific shellfire to a position two hundred yards west of Hooge. But at 9.30 he was ordered to reinforce the trench south of the Menin Road, which was reported to be breaking. A Company was chosen, and led with dauntless courage by Major Christie; they went forward in short rushes with shouts of Good old 9thArgylls. The advance lay over a bare slope without any cover from the terrible fire, but though men fell fast these brave Scotsmen never wavered

[warthur]

Canuk

Sounds like an interesting project. The 7th ASH war diary contains casualty lists for the 9th Bn during May. PM me an email address and I can send them over. 2667 Pte J S Thomson was reported as wounded on the 10th May but was fit for duty by the 16th - could that be the chap whose quote you have?

Hope this helps

Colin

Hi Colin I guess my PM e-mail did not get through . Could you please e-mail the casualty list to ronald@kingston.net

Thanks

[Tom A McCluskey]

Canuk,

I wish you all the best with your project studying the 9th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. Study of the Argylls, during the Great War, is a very difficult project. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a detailed history available. I have Lieutenant-Colonel G I Malcolm’s wee green book which glances over each battalion. Here is what it says about the 9th:

As the 9th battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders it was so heavily engaged in the severe fighting in the Ypres Salient early in 1915, that by the end of May it had been reduced to a strength of 2 Officers and 85 men. This Company (for it was little more) was then amalgamated with the 8th Argylls for the remainder of the war.

I hope this is of use.

I will have a look in the Camerons’ history for you.

Aye

Tom McC

[Anthony Bagshaw]

Hi Ronald,

Email sent.

Tom, would you mind if i added this bit to some research i am doing? As the 9th battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders it was so heavily engaged in the severe fighting in the Ypres Salient early in 1915, that by the end of May it had been reduced to a strength of 2 Officers and 85 men. This Company (for it was little more) was then amalgamated with the 8th Argylls for the remainder of the war.

[Tom A McCluskey]

Anthony

Please feel free to.

Aye

Tom McC

[Anthony Bagshaw]

Thanks Tom, that's great.

[warthur]

Canuk,

I wish you all the best with your project studying the 9th Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. Study of the Argylls, during the Great War, is a very difficult project. Unfortunately, there does not appear to be a detailed history available. I have Lieutenant-Colonel G I Malcolm's wee green book which glances over each battalion. Here is what it says about the 9th:

As the 9th battalion Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders it was so heavily engaged in the severe fighting in the Ypres Salient early in 1915, that by the end of May it had been reduced to a strength of 2 Officers and 85 men. This Company (for it was little more) was then amalgamated with the 8th Argylls for the remainder of the war.

I hope this is of use.

I will have a look in the Camerons' history for you.

Aye

Tom McC

[warthur]

Anthony

Please feel free to.

Aye

Tom McC

Hi Tom I think I lost my reply to you - I am technically challenged sometimes . I really do apprciate your assitance .

Regards

[barrykerr]

I'm doing some research on a relative that served with the 7th A and S highlanders, i been trying to find out as much as i can about there where abouts and i noticed that someone posted earlyer about have the war diary for the 7th? would it be posiable to send me a copy.

I know my relative J Grady 278509 won the MM and was placed in the gazette July 1917, but am i correct in saying that he would have won it 3/4 months before the notice was put in? so i'm trying to piece together where he might have been when he recieved it

thanks for anyone who may be able to help

Barry

[warthur]

I'm doing some research on a relative that served with the 7th A and S highlanders, i been trying to find out as much as i can about there where abouts and i noticed that someone posted earlyer about have the war diary for the 7th? would it be posiable to send me a copy.

I know my relative J Grady 278509 won the MM and was placed in the gazette July 1917, but am i correct in saying that he would have won it 3/4 months before the notice was put in? so i'm trying to piece together where he might have been when he recieved it

thanks for anyone who may be able to help

Barry

Hi Barry , Sorry i don't have any information on the 7th battallion only a few extracts from the war diaries of the 1/9th

[roughdiamond]

I'm doing some research on a relative that served with the 7th A and S highlanders, i been trying to find out as much as i can about there where abouts and i noticed that someone posted earlyer about have the war diary for the 7th? would it be posiable to send me a copy.

I know my relative J Grady 278509 won the MM and was placed in the gazette July 1917, but am i correct in saying that he would have won it 3/4 months before the notice was put in? so i'm trying to piece together where he might have been when he recieved it

thanks for anyone who may be able to help

Barry

Barry your best option is to start a new thread on the soldiers forum with his name, rank and number as the "topic title with 7th A&SH as the topic description, that way you'll get better coverage, BTW I have a book on the 7th's history, I'll see if there's any mention of him.

[Colin W Taylor]

Canuk

Casualty lists were sent at the weekend - apologies for the delay - I've been away from reliable internet!

C

[warthur]

Canuk

Casualty lists were sent at the weekend - apologies for the delay - I've been away from reliable internet!

C

Hi Colin I have not receive anything . Did you have my e-mail OK ronald@kingston.net .

Many thanks