charlie962 Posted 29 December , 2023 Share Posted 29 December , 2023 (edited) 1268 Gunner Cardy 1. This is Arthur Robert Cardy 2. But how to reconcile that with this report of his funeral in 1924 ,?? Trained as an aircraft spotter, did he get a commission in the RAF? He got one in the Labour Corps. Might be journalistic confusion. Courtesy Findmypast 3. His Army Officer file is here at National Archives WO 374/12327 2Lt Labour Corps 4. Then the 14/15 Medal Roll tells us: Arthur Robert Cardy Disembarkation date 04 Oct 1915 Service number 328243 Regiment Labour Corps Previous unit R.F.A. 1268 Gnr Medals awarded 1914-15 Star Theatre of war 1 Theatre of war description Western Europe Remarks Disc. To Comm: 18.5.18. 5. I calculate his Labour Corps number was issued Aug 1917. 6. He was discharged with a silver war badge as a 2nd Lt, Labour Corps 7. The 1921 Census has him as unemployed due to disability suffered in the war I can see this could be an interesting journey. Edited 29 December , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 29 December , 2023 Share Posted 29 December , 2023 (edited) 1056 Gunner J G Godfrey. This is Joseph Henry Godfrey. He remains an RFA Territorial throughout. He has a surviving service record with a number of relevant entries for his training. Courtesy Findmypast TF Renumber 925372 in 1917. Edited 29 December , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 29 December , 2023 Share Posted 29 December , 2023 1507. Gunner. Grey, This is Vernon Grey, who gets transferred to a Field Survey Company RE. Three pages from his service record, courtesy Findmypast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 29 December , 2023 Share Posted 29 December , 2023 2 hours ago, MikeMeech said: 902. Gr. Banks. This is Walter Norman Banks and he too is attached then transfers to the RE. Again some interesting references in his service record. Courtesy Findmypast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 29 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2023 Thank you Charlie . Interesting to see what they did. Also makes me think Find My Past is better than my Ancestry site in terms of military records. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 29 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2023 1 minute ago, charlie962 said: Again some interesting references in his service record Yes .I dont have enough knowledge to understand much on these records but I can see that this guy moved around a lot in active service in France . Do you think you are seeing a pattern emerging showing these trained Ground Observers proved to be valuable and so were shared round to support at vital points / locations ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 29 December , 2023 Share Posted 29 December , 2023 (edited) 7 minutes ago, FionaBam said: Do you think you are seeing a pattern emerging Early days but I'm hoping this is something that @MikeMeech can use ? Of the four so far, one gets transferred to the Labour Corps and commissioned, one remains with his RFA Brigade and two get transferred to RE Field Survey Companies. There's terminology that I don't understand in terms of their qualifications. I'll dig further tomorrow. Edited 29 December , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 29 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 29 December , 2023 2 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Early days..etc Yes was thinking the same. 3 minutes ago, charlie962 said: There's terminology that I don't understand in terms of their qualifications. I wonder if other Forum people like @FROGSMILEwould be able to help with that ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 (edited) 15 hours ago, FionaBam said: Yes was thinking the same. I wonder if other Forum people like @FROGSMILEwould be able to help with that ? I can read most of it apart from some of the very faint writing caused by water damage from fire hoses and the subsequent dilution of the original ink. If the aspect that’s unclear is pointed out I’ll clarify that which I can determine. It’s interesting to see the Observation training delivered by the RFC, followed by instruction in aircraft recognition, and the link with anti-aircraft duties. This was a new role for the Royal Artillery but one which they quickly became proficient at. I imagine it’s quite likely that the RFC “ground observers” were attached to the anti-aircraft units to both, help with identifying the types of enemy aircraft engaged (for intelligence summaries), but also to ensure the friendly aircraft (British, French, American, etc.) were not fired at accidentally. Something that was a problem then as it is now. For anti aircraft purposes the Royal Artillery worked closely with the Corps of Royal Engineers, who until the end of the 1930s provided and manned searchlights for night time firing, as they were the lead service for electrical and lighting matters at the time**. **until the Royal Electrical and Mechanical Engineers was formed in 1941. Edited 30 December , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 1270 Gunner Greenhill Arthur William Greenhill 1270/925418. He remains RFA Key pages from service record (courtesy Findmypast) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 1190 Gunner Parnell Francis C Parnell , 1190/925418. He remains RFA No service record found. Entered France 4/10/15. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 30 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2023 Thank you @FROGSMILE. I like the Alamy photo and the one with signpost " AerialView" ( put there for humour ?). below- in "Record of promotions column , what is "S.P. Observer "? Prof for proficiency I presume . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 1588 Gunner Marshall John Marshall, 1588 RFA transferred to RE and new number 244913. Service file extracts per Findmypast Q. What is an SP Observer, skilled ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 3 minutes ago, FionaBam said: Thank you @FROGSMILE. I like the Alamy photo and the one with signpost " AerialView" ( put there for humour ?). below- in "Record of promotions column , what is "S.P. Observer "? Prof for proficiency I presume . Yes for humour I think. Specialist Pay Observer Proficiency (awarded after qualification). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 4 minutes ago, FionaBam said: proficiency Proficient. See also same question re Marshall- skilled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 (edited) 4 minutes ago, charlie962 said: 1588 Gunner Marshall John Marshall, 1588 RFA transferred to RE and new number 244913. Service file extracts per Findmypast Q. What is an SP Observer, skilled ? Specialist Pay Observer ‘Skilled’ (an enhanced rate of specialist pay). Edited 30 December , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 Just now, FROGSMILE said: Specialist Pay Observer Skilled (an enhanced rate of specialist pay). Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, charlie962 said: Thanks The concept of Specialist Pay (SP) is very old and details appear from time-to-time in the ‘Royal Army Warrant for Pay and Allowances’, updating with new skills and changes in rates. Edited 30 December , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 11 hours ago, MikeMeech said: No. 1535. Gr. Wright. 1/2nd London Bde., RFA. Cannot find him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 (edited) 33 minutes ago, FionaBam said: Thank you @FROGSMILE. I like the Alamy photo and the one with signpost " AerialView" ( put there for humour ?). below- in "Record of promotions column , what is "S.P. Observer "? Prof for proficiency I presume . If you look at the two lowermost photos showing the Lewis Guns about to engage aircraft you will see each one has an officer or man with binoculars. These will be the ‘observers’, who were provided with binoculars for their duty if they did not possess any of their own (officers generally owned a personal set as part of their kit). For a permanent a/a position (ack ack - from the original phonetic alphabet for the letter A) binoculars would be a part of the assigned equipment. In the photo with the gun mounted on a wheel, then to the right you can see another man using a rangefinder so that the height of the aircraft can be ascertained. Edited 30 December , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie962 Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 (edited) 12 hours ago, MikeMeech said: Hi For those interested their indicated details are: No. 1270. Gr. A W Greenhill, Ammn. Col., 1/1st London Bde., RFA. No. 1056. Gr. J G Godfrey. " " " No. 1190. Gr. F Parnell, " " " No. 1588. Gr. Marshall, 8th Bty., 1/3rd London Bde., RFA. No. 1268. Gr. Cardy, " " " No. 902. Gr. Banks. 9th Bty., " " No. 1535. Gr. Wright. 1/2nd London Bde., RFA. No. 1507. Gr. Grey, " " Mike So in summary for those 8 Gunners: One man is transferred to Labour Corps 1917 and commissioned LC 1918 Three men remain RFA TF Three men transfer to RE 3rd Field Survey Company in 1916/17 One man I cannot trace Edit- couldn't readily find a War Diary for 3 Field Survey Co RE. Edited 30 December , 2023 by charlie962 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 (edited) 27 minutes ago, charlie962 said: 1588 Gunner Marshall John Marshall, 1588 RFA transferred to RE and new number 244913. Service file extracts per Findmypast Q. What is an SP Observer, skilled ? One of the things that interests me is that the promotion to corporal of Gunner Marshall is annotated as under Army Council Instruction (ACI) 1/6/17 with an ‘authority’ of Maps** [section] GHQ 6622 dated 8/3/18 **presumably a staffing division in the headquarters associated with RE and RA due to the importance of mapping and survey. Edited 30 December , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 30 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2023 (edited) 24 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: concept of Specialist Pay (SP) is very old and Thanks. Did the SP bonus amount to much during WW1? 13 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said: an officer or man with binoculars Yes I noted this . Appreciate seeing a " rangefinder " in action. Wonder if IWM London have an original rangefinder on display. I toured their WW1 section a few weeks ago , was not looking for one so might have overlooked it Edited 30 December , 2023 by FionaBam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FROGSMILE Posted 30 December , 2023 Share Posted 30 December , 2023 (edited) 3 minutes ago, FionaBam said: Thanks. Did the SP bonus amount to much during WW1? Yes I noted this . Appreciate seeing a " ranger " in action. Wonder if IWM London have an original ranger on display. I toured their WW1 section a few weeks ago , was not looking for one so might have overlooked it SP was usually just a few pence “per diem”. Rangetaker rather than Ranger. Edited 30 December , 2023 by FROGSMILE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FionaBam Posted 30 December , 2023 Author Share Posted 30 December , 2023 1 minute ago, FROGSMILE said: usually just a few pence “per diem”. I see thanks . but recognition of an extra skill and a few pence per day meant quite a bit in 1916. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now