Stebie9173 Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Denise, Don't forget the battle of the Somme in early 1918. Before that was the Battle of Cambrai with tanks aplenty! Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Having checked out the J Woodall entries on CWGC and discounting our friend the Munster Fusilier these are the only ones left that may fit the bill http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...casualty=336195 http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...casualty=611344 http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...casualty=160641 http://www.cwgc.org/cwgcinternet/casualty_...casualty=867546 Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Max, I started to post a message saying you are all off track . The Sherwood Forester though has no connection with London. I think we are compounding assumptions here and very few hard facts are evident. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry Denham Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 The address in West Croydon was supplied to CWGC by the next-of-kin on their Final Verification Form and published by the Commission in the original register for Les Gonards in 1928. The info would have been supplied to CWGC sometime in the 1920s. Therefore, if it is an error, it is a very long standing one. I favour the theory of the verbal family history being inaccurate. West Croydon is a little nearer to Walworth than Croydon itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Ford Posted 11 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Uncle Billy is sure that James died "early" in the war years so the first Somme seems more likely... I still don't see how the family got to Croydon and back again if they never left the streets they grew up in from one census to another and moreover, right through to the 2nd world war... it doesn't make any sense to me and doesn't ring true with anything the two members of the family alive now know about my family! I just can't see that the RMF guy can therefore possibly be my James... the other side of my family were in Scottish Rifles (now verified by his gravestone) so local regiments are not necessarily "the norm" with my lot... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Max, I started to post a message saying you are all off track . The Sherwood Forester though has no connection with London. I think we are compounding assumptions here and very few hard facts are evident. Roop <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Roop I am quite aware that very few hard facts are evident but it is not such a difficult task to whittle down 13 J Woodall/Woodhall from CWGC records to the 4 that I listed given the information that Denise has given. I must admit that I am with Terry on this having had very bad experiences of family members being absolutely certain of facts only later to be proved beyond doubt to be wrong. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Roop, Terry Denise is looking for her ancestor which we have narrowed down his date of birth to 1885-1886 and therefore probably not the Royal Munster Fusilier. Denise always had reservations about the Croydon address. We are looking at getting her back on track to finding her relative. It may work out that the RMF is in fact her great-uncle. We are looking at possibilities and bouncing ideas. Have you any info on SDGW on Max's postings? Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Denise, Between 1901 and 1914 my great uncle travelled the world, there is no record of this other than we know he did it.His address remained the same throughout. Thus the short journey to West Croydon seems highly probable for your family given the unusual name, the lack of other evidence and the lack of other candidates. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Steve, Have checked SDGW only candidate is same as previously listed by Malcolm. No other likely candidates. Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 What does his MIC say???? Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Denise, Between 1901 and 1914 my great uncle travelled the world, there is no record of this other than we know he did it.His address remained the same throughout. Thus the short journey to West Croydon seems highly probable for your family given the unusual name, the lack of other evidence and the lack of other candidates. Roop <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Roop I completely agree. The 4 listings from CWGC that I posted above are only those that have no family/age details showing and a quick SDGW check should confiirm their veracity one way or the other. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 You guys are posting too quickly :-)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Ford Posted 11 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Nah... still not possible... at the time of the war my grandmother was alive, ok as a baby but her sisters were old enough to remember where their grandmother was... and they visited her in Walworth... never ever Croydon. James himself lived in the area with his girlfriend... even if it was possible that they travelled at the particular year he died... and lived as residents in Croydon... how come they then went on to tell the entire family that he died in the Somme a year later?! It just doesn't make sense... PS I've checked SDGW... only 4 possibles...including James Palmerer... the others are totally out the area... miles and miles away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 I still don't see how the family got to Croydon and back again if they never left the streets they grew up in from one census to another and moreover, <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Denise The entry on CWGC does not, in my mind anyway, infer that the whole family moved to West Croyden which is only 9 miles down the road after all. What it does show is that the person who was named as next of kin, i.e. James mother, was living in West Croydon at the time that the verification forms went out. She may well have been on her own and only stayed for a short period of time before moving back to Southwark/Walworth. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 I cannot find a J. P Woodall/Woodhall in the MIC's. Are we looking for the right chap I wonder. How sure are we that the Kew record is the correct man?? Even so i cannot find his MIC.?? Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Ford Posted 11 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Yes, I see your point... and it does only say the son of Mrs Woodhall, not Mr & Mrs - and James' father John had died in 1904...so only one parent being listed is likely... No Roop, not sure at all about the Kew record. Again, an assumption based on absolutely no other possibles. I wouldn't pay too much attention to the middle name either, I have no proof he had any middle name at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Hello Roop Here he is http://www.documentsonline.nationalarchive...&resultcount=11 Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Denise, Has anyone looked at the Service Records for Woodalls and Woodhalls at the PRO? I'm down their on the 30th. I might just get time... 11 James Woodalls and 8 James Woodhalls per MICs. Alright, they might not exist, but.... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Yes, I see your point... and it does only say the son of Mrs Woodhall, not Mr & Mrs - and James' father John had died in 1904...so only one parent being listed is likely... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Hello Denise The problem is that if you are convinced that the James Woodall who was aged 16 on the 1901 census is your James then the Munster Fusilier is not your man Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KONDOA Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Quote: at the time of the war my grandmother was alive, ok as a baby but her sisters were old enough to remember where their grandmother was... and they visited her in Walworth What year would this be?? How old were they to be travelling and where from?? Croydon perhaps?? Denise, I think the CWGC data is the most likely for your man. There are no other possibles unless you know different. As Maxsays, family recollection is dodgy in the majority of cases especially several generations on. Do we have any facts to work with other than family lore?? Roop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Ford Posted 11 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2005 No, I didn't have time - but I was looking for my other relative Edwin Pullen (James' cousin) who died before the war... and didn't find it - on pressing the staff as to why (notwithstanding the WWII damage) they informed me that because he was dead his record was highly unlikely to exist, as the army considered it no longer of use, as he wouldn't be pensioned etc so they had no need for a record. So... (sorry I wittered a bit there) I figured stupidly there wouldn't be one for James and plumped instead for MIC and SDGW records instead... hence my conundrum now! So... if you have spare time, Steve... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Ford Posted 11 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Facts other than family lore (which comes from the just one generation on, not several): yes... the 1901/1891 census is definitely my James - 100% no doubt... so as Andy says... the SDGW/CWGC man can't possibly be my James... and therefore the Croydon issue is resolved... that isn't my family. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stebie9173 Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 If nothing else it might eliminate some of the others... I don't know about the death issue. Roop, can you help? I'll try. No promises mind you... Steve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Posted 11 April , 2005 Share Posted 11 April , 2005 Denise If that is the case then it appears that there is no record of your James death. Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Denise Ford Posted 11 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 11 April , 2005 You're right Andy - it was me trying to prove the Munster Fusiliers was (or wasn't as it seems to be) my great uncle...after I found only him as the one possibility at Kew. So... I'm back to... why isn't he recorded anywhere? How can a missing man be not finally recorded as dead? Can he still be listed as missing in action? Before anyone asks... no he didn't return secretly... that's been suggested before... and the suggestion to my elders was met with absolute horror... they KNOW he died (i'm presuming Mary Ann his mother was informed as such - but I don't know how they know they know...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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