ianw Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 Thanks BS, I will award you the W.L.A.G.W.D title until someone else comes along to claim it over 3 rounds ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
182 CEF Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 I have several WW1 capbadges that were dug up in Canada and in G.B. ( from training areas) NONE are in as good condition as the ones he is offering!!!! I also have a couple of Canadian WW2 badges that were burried in the 1960s ( the Canadian Gov burried drums of badges instread of letting them hit the markets, however a few of these drum have been found)..Even these badges, for the most part, are in worse shape than his....I gotta wonder. Dean Whitby Canada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 13 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 13 April , 2005 Thanks BS, I will award you the W.L.A.G.W.D title until someone else comes along to claim it over 3 rounds ! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> [/quote Ian Thanks, but no thanks Try Dave (Croonaert) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David_Bluestein Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 What a fascinating thread this is. I had stumbled upon this auction on ebay, before it had made it to the pages of our forum. I of course (as always) checked the name on the CWGC date base, and almost fell off my chair when I discovered he was killed. And on July 1, 1916. I collect casualty medals, with an emphasis on July 1, 1916. This would have been right up my street….Imagine that this whistle may have been one that helped signal the advance to move at 7:30 am on that fateful morning; was racing through my head! I had to have it! I was preparing to dive into the fray during the closing moments of the auction. HOWEVER I am grateful to have found this thread, and to all forum members who have offered their expertise, as I had decided I will NOT throw my money into ---edited--- I am now contemplating how close I came to throwing away a fair bit of cash! PS: It sold for 475USD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 Should that read 475 pieces of silver ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terry_Reeves Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 Gentlemen I have only just caught up with this thread having been a way . I would ask all forum members not to accuse people of --edited---. This could lead to serious trouble, not only for the individuals concerned, but also the the forum itself. Any further instances will result in the removal of the entire thread. Terry Reeves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 PS: It sold for 475USD <{POST_SNAPBACK}> That`s £251.03. The seller`s (ebay) christian name appears in his feedback. ---edited---- Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
7:29am Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 And we did nothing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 I think this is a fascinating (and rather distressing) thread that points the spotlight at one of the more disconcerting facets of the continuing and burgeoning interest in the Great War. It is a fact that a Great War casualty is inherrently more interesting than one of those lucky men who escaped from the slaughter. This is reflected in the general level of interest and the prices of medals and other memorabilia. There is a obvious temptation for sellers to try to take advantage of the "ghoul factor" and otherwise augment the value of items by engineering spurious links to casualties and key dates like 1st July 1916. Personally, I feel rather revolted by this because I recognise the the tendency in myself. I'd love a 1st Day of the Somme trio. But today, I'm not so sure. These men died and we treat the tokens of their supreme sacrifice like baseball cards or foreign stamps , buying and selling them on Ebay. I am sad, chastened, distressed and rather ashamed. I hope these feelings will pass. I have temporarily modified my signature below. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt_Hazell_Great_Grandson Posted 13 April , 2005 Share Posted 13 April , 2005 Well put sir. It could be seen as goulish collecting dead soldiers medals but if it were not for the collectors then surely they and the soldiers historys would be lost for ever. How many brave men would be lost if it were not for the many people on this forum keeping them " alive ". If it were not for me , and the help of forum members , i know that my G.Grandfather would be forgotton and he is just one of millions. I would guess if i thought of the most frightening moment of my life and times it by 1000 i might be close to feeling how those boys felt as they went over the top to almost certain death. Roland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris_Baker Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Members, I have had to heavily edit this thread to remove words and phrases that may have represented legal risk to the originators and this forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shaymen Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Just replying to move it back up top for all those interested parties Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 16 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Well, well! Here`s a third whistle and dogtag combination sold by the same guy! http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...bayphotohosting Phil B <{POST_SNAPBACK}> This is now showing as a clock on my computer! Same description as before, whistle and tag, but the pic is of a clock! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbie Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Mine too, Phil. Robbie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 How strange that the previous photo has transmuted itself into a clock ! I wonder if something similar will happen to Lt Hardman's item's photo ? I also note that this sale was another of those private sales where the identity of the buyers and bidders is kept secret. The seller seems to use open sales for other items of similar value. I wonder what the motivation for using a private sale is. Of course it stops all potential communication between any interested parties and the buyer and under-bidders. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Noble Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Gonna take this to a different perspective; I'm just really saddened about this. When i first read the post, my gut reaction was yeah, this is the genuine article. As the thread un-folded, i am frankly, horrified. First thing, i know the collectors and for lack of a better word 'experts' on the Forum, i've purchased a few items myself off these people. These people know more than i do, hey, thats one of the reasons i'm here, aren't we all? The thing that saddens me most, if Mark had decided to purchase the item in question, i'd have moved Heaven and high water to lay my hands on some cash to put it, IMHO, in its rightful place, at the school. And this gets me. I work hard, 2 kids, baby on the way, mortgage etc. Cash is tight, but i'd have found the money, even if i had to sell something myself. Sorry if it seems a bit of a rant, managed to go out and have a few beers, one of the only pleasures i can manage once a week, but, i work hard as i'm sure we all do. The Forum is ALWAYS here, doesn't cost me a bean, always find the money for a donation though. Had to get that off my chest. Regards to you all. Chris. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 There is a obvious temptation for sellers to try to take advantage of the "ghoul factor" and otherwise augment the value of items by engineering spurious links to casualties and key dates like 1st July 1916. Personally, I feel rather revolted by this because I recognise the the tendency in myself. I'd love a 1st Day of the Somme trio. But today, I'm not so sure. These men died and we treat the tokens of their supreme sacrifice like baseball cards or foreign stamps , buying and selling them on Ebay. I am sad, chastened, distressed and rather ashamed. I hope these feelings will pass. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Ian - and others - while I likewise share in your obvious distaste in "trading in the dead", I don't think one case should put people off from wanting to preserve items that often are all that remains of the life of a soldier in the Great War. As a child I saw many things like this destroyed in the days when no-one wanted them. Today that is unlikely to happen, but equally as interest grows so does value, and so does the desire to create something that is potentially valuable. I have no idea to the provenance of this item; only seeing a photo is not conclusive, but like others, none of my GW officers ID disks look like this one. That is not to say it isn't genuine - there are always exceptions to the rule. I am surprised the seller has found so many over the years; he must have had some luck, I suppose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 By the way - thanks to Chris for editing this and putting it back in place; if nothing else it is fascinating! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ianw Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 Yes Paul, after mature reflection ,I do feel that the majority of people who collect are well motivated and do so with respect and an intention to conserve. If there are a few bad apples this has to be put in a greater context. Ultimately we all have to live with our own consciences on these issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismac Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 To my mind this is grave robbing. This has not turned up in someone's attic or in a recently deceased's effects. It is the result of somebody searching. What next ? Whether theses items are real or not this egenders a sense that these battlefields are no more thn a treasure trove waiting to be looted. " 'ere gaz, whaddya reckon we'll get for this skull then ? " " a bit more when it's gotta 'bullet 'ole in it " Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Reed Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 " 'ere gaz, whaddya reckon we'll get for this skull then ? " " a bit more when it's gotta 'bullet 'ole in it " <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I take your point, but in Gallipoli such items - skulls with bullets still lodged in them - are on display in museums. There was also a rumoured trade in battlefield skulls a few years ago in France for Black Magic candle stands... I kid you not, but I don't know if it was true or journalistic licence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrismac Posted 16 April , 2005 Share Posted 16 April , 2005 " He seems to find very unique items!! " Perhaps an (as yet) unexploded shell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CROONAERT Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 I take your point, but in Gallipoli such items - skulls with bullets still lodged in them - are on display in museums. There was also a rumoured trade in battlefield skulls a few years ago in France for Black Magic candle stands... I kid you not, but I don't know if it was true or journalistic licence! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Mind you, it's better than them all being dug up, shipped to England and ground down to be used a fertilizer ! (As has happened in the past - the Waterloo dead being particularly famous for this) As for the Black magic link. It's possibly true. I saw several human skulls for sale quite openly in a "Wiccan" style shop in Gent a few years ago. There was also a guy in the Poperinge area who was supposed to have had a few and was selling them to whoever wanted. This was reported in the British press (so I didn't believe a word of it!), but it was also mentioned by quite a reliable source in the area (who I do believe). Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeppoSapone Posted 17 April , 2005 Author Share Posted 17 April , 2005 This is now showing as a clock on my computer! Same description as before, whistle and tag, but the pic is of a clock! <{POST_SNAPBACK}> The clock in question is from a U Boat. If you check the other items that this person is selling on ebay you can find full details. To be fair to this seller, I suspect that this is an ebay cock up. I could be wrong though, it has been known Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilB Posted 17 April , 2005 Share Posted 17 April , 2005 The photo was of a whistle/disc combination when I saw it! Phil B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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