Link request to Naval Medical Service History of 1914-18

[KizmeRD]

Apologies, I have big thumbs and a small keyboard!

MB

[horatio2]

It's not you, MB. The built-in OCR is the culprit.

[KizmeRD]

A Major Gordon was mentioned as being the officer responsible for getting the busses to the two Auxiliary Hospitals to assist in the evacuation.  From what I’ve read, there were two convoys, each comprising of 4 busses that headed off to Ghent (before continuing onwards to Ostend), and another 3 busses that travelled directly to Ostend via Bruges.

MB

[Niko]

All RND spots on one map (that is, except for the battle of Lier):

[KizmeRD]

This thread just keeps giving! In my previous post I made mention of a ‘Major Gordon’ (assuming him to be a Royal Marines Officer, whereas this wasn’t actually the case). To give him his full name he was Archibald Alexander Gordon  (3 Sep 1867 – 12 Aug 1949)

Major Gordon was actually a former Scottish Officer, and the person who was organising the Belgian Relief Fund (having previously been involved in funding the rescue of the Waterloo Monument). Major Gordon is given the credit for arranging the evacuation of the auxiliary hospitals from Antwerp by providing a fleet of London omnibuses. Together with Col. Seely he also ‘organised’ the withdrawal of many marines from Antwerp via motor column to Sint-Niklaas/Sint-Gillis Waas where they boarded a train to Bruges/Ostend.

After the retreat from Antwerp, Gordon was invited by King Albert to undertake the duties of King’s Messenger, frequently travelling to and fro across the Channel on special assignments.

MB

See https://www.aagordon.be/biography/military-life-1/article3

A report regarding the last days at Antwerp, and the Retreat from that place, as requested by the First Lord of the Admiralty (Winston Churchill)

Edited 3 March , 2023 by KizmeRD

[horatio2]

6 minutes ago, KizmeRD said:

Col. Seely he also organised the withdrawal of many marines from Antwerp

An self-important and incompetent armyofficer. His botched role (ably assisted by Lt Col DH Olivant RA) in passing the GOC's orders for the RND withdrawal from Antwerp was to lead directly to the internment in Holland of 1st (Naval) Brigade RND. He was a man who could bnot organize a p*ss-up in a brewery and I would not have trusted him to run a small fleet of buses. Those marines who got away owed little to Seely. Between them Seely and Ollivant  frustrated, amended and seriously delayed the clear orders of Gen Paris. The result was an internment and POW disaster for the RND.

[KizmeRD]

Excellent, like I said earlier, this thread just keeps on giving!

MB

[horatio2]

My last word on Seely as a bus conductor as we are drifting away from the main topic - Col JEB Seely was an MP and former Secretary of State for War (1911-12) who seems to have ttached himself to the RND Staff.

He was 'close' to both Churchill and Kitchener.

Nuff sed!

[williywonker]

Nico what an amazing chap you are to put together that map of Antwerp. I appreciate the outer forts are shown but would you be willing to identify and highlight them on the map, by any chance?

H2 I wholly agree with your comments about Seely and his culpability for the loss of the First Naval Brigade.

Incidentally, the image of the medal group that I posted is that of Lieutenant Commander G G Grant who was awarded his DSC for his enterprise and gallant conduct following the fall of Antwerp when he was amongst a contingent from ‘B’ Company ‘Benbow’ Battalion detailed to occupy Fort No 4 after its Belgian garrison had fled. On the decision to withdraw the British force the order to retire failed to reach this party which remained at its post for a further seven hours before withdrawing and navigating its way through the deserted streets of Antwerp.

On arrival at the Dutch frontier Grant refused to obey the orders of his commanding officer to cross the border and was placed under armed arrest and escorted across against his will. Once in neutral Holland and free of military authority, Grant released himself, and along with another officer, Sub-Lieutenant Modin, called for volunteers to join them in a bid to evade capture and reach the coast. Leading their party of thirty-five men along footpaths and byways close to the Dutch frontier, both officers led the party through Saint-Gilles-Waes, Stekene, Moerbeke, and a host of small villages before reaching Salzaete where they caught the last train to leave for Ostend.  On their arrival in Ostend both officers reported the loss of the First Naval Brigade to Major-General Paris, following which they accompanied him to England to meet the First Lord of the Admiralty, Winston Churchill, and make their report.

Promoted Lieutenant Commander on 24th December 1914, Grant transferred to ‘Anson’ Battalion on 15th March 1915, and proceeded to Gallipoli in command of ‘C’ Company during its assault on ‘X’ Beach on 25th April 1915. On the 27th May 1915 he was severely wounded by shrapnel wounds to his left shoulder and spine, being evacuated to Malta and thence to England, where he was transferred to the 4th (Reserve) Battalion RND and discharged to Depot on the 12th February 1919.

Mal

Edited 28 February , 2023 by williywonker

[Niko]

It's gonna be very difficult to add the outer fortress line, the scale would be too small I'm afraid.

Here's a picture of a larger map, which puts it a little in perspective: 

[williywonker]

Nico,

Was Fort No 4 shown on the smaller map and could you identify it if so please?

Mal

[Niko]

Mal,

Fort4 is on the inner fortress line. It's this one on the map:

[williywonker]

Great, Thank you Nico

Mal

[horatio2]

2 hours ago, williywonker said:

he was amongst a contingent from ‘B’ Company ‘Benbow’ Battalion detailed to occupy Fort No 4

I believe Grant was in 'C' Coy Benbow.

In the afternoon of 8 October, MO Benbow recorded: "2 pm.Things are going awfully badly.  Our Collingwood Battalion has been badly smashed up by shell fire[1] and we have just sent off our ‘B’ Company to reinforce them. About 4 p.m. our ‘D’ Company were sent off to relieve the Hawkes. … A little later ‘C’ Company was sent off to Fort 4  … only ‘A’ Company was now left.”

 

 

[williywonker]

Many thanks H2. I will check my original source

Mal

[williywonker]

H2, I will need to locate the source but the following quote is in my notes for Grant; 'At 2am the following morning (7th October), Paris gave orders for a general retirement to a second line of defence, the dispositions of the brigade being thus; between Forts 5 and 4 ‘Drake’; Forts 4 and 3 ‘Collingwood’; Forts 3 and 2 ‘Hawke’; with ‘Benbow’ in Reserve. At 4pm the following day (8th October), a report was received that Fort No 4 had been evacuated by its Belgian Garrison, and ‘B’ Company from Benbow was sent to reinforce ‘Collingwood’ with a contingent commanded by Lieutenant Hilhouse being ordered to re-occupy Fort No 4 at dusk and dig themselves in. Hilhouse’s contingent included Lieutenant Grant and Sub-Lieutenants Modin and Watson. Shortly afterwards Lieutenant Crossman’s company from ‘Benbow’ was ordered to support the Belgian garrison at Fort No 3.'

Mal

[seaJane]

Sorry to be so late to picking this up. The (Royal) Naval Medical History of the War was collated from various articles that appeared in the JRNMS in the 1920s into a single volume, with some small additions, which was distributed within the RN Medical Service units including RNH Haslar, RNH Plymouth, etc. 

The separate parts of Sir Arthur Gaskell's History of the RM Medical Unit were combined to form one section; there was also First aid work on shore with the Royal Naval Division / by J.N. MacBean Ross. 

This is the catalogue record of INM's copy, with the contents detailed: https://discover.libraryhub.jisc.ac.uk/search?q=Medical history war Admiralty &rn=24

The JRNMS.com site is now closed, as the BMJ has taken over the Journal, along with the Journal of the RAMC, and the two are now published in tandem as BMJ Military Medicine.* The JRAMC archives are free to read but not, as yet, those of the JRNMS. However the BMJ archives site can be used to identify article details, and individual volumes can be searched for and read on archive.org using JRNMS 1915, for example. That was the year of vol. 1, so there is no 1914 volume.

*Unfortunately this means that some of the JRNMS links on my Medicine and Healthcare of the GW bibliography are now defunct - I will try to replace them soon. 

PS: by the way, I now have a successor in post as Historic Collections Librarian (much to my relief).

 

[Niko]

7 hours ago, williywonker said:

H2, I will need to locate the source but the following quote is in my notes for Grant; 'At 2am the following morning (7th October), Paris gave orders for a general retirement to a second line of defence, the dispositions of the brigade being thus; between Forts 5 and 4 ‘Drake’; Forts 4 and 3 ‘Collingwood’; Forts 3 and 2 ‘Hawke’; with ‘Benbow’ in Reserve. At 4pm the following day (8th October), a report was received that Fort No 4 had been evacuated by its Belgian Garrison, and ‘B’ Company from Benbow was sent to reinforce ‘Collingwood’ with a contingent commanded by Lieutenant Hilhouse being ordered to re-occupy Fort No 4 at dusk and dig themselves in. Hilhouse’s contingent included Lieutenant Grant and Sub-Lieutenants Modin and Watson. Shortly afterwards Lieutenant Crossman’s company from ‘Benbow’ was ordered to support the Belgian garrison at Fort No 3.'

Mal

I am wondering, according to the local guides at Fort4, the fort was never abandoned by its crew.

Would it be possible that we talk about redoubt 4?

The inner forts were in fact no longer standing as a fort by themselves, but as the new 'wall', they were modernised with concrete, and in between them came small concrete fortresses, the redoubts. There were three between fort2 and fort3, numbering 1-3, two between fort3 and fort4, numbering 4-5, etc.....

So, could it be that one of these smaller redoubts, the one next to fort3, eg. redoubt 4, was abandoned?

Just guessing here?

Here's a picture of what I believe to be redoubt 5, closest to Fort4, and the trenches with the Collingwoods: 

Here is a 1938 map, with redoubt 4 on it:

[williywonker]

Hi All,

Just when you think it's safe....it's me again...

I have now copied the NA file reference ADM 1/8506/269 and can report there is nothing of significance in connection with the voluntary hospitals. The key documents have been included in Fevyer and Wilson's Book.

Two other comments, firstly Nico. I think you might be correct when you suggest Grant was at Redoubt 4 rather than Fort No 4. Although all the sources I have obtained state Fort No 4, the quotation I posted included the phrase 'digging in' which implies a trench rather than a fortification

Secondly H2. Although I thought I was mistaken when I posted that Secker had transferred to the RND and attached to the RFC, it's been bugging me for a while as to why I would have thought that. The answer is his MIC as attached

Mal

[KizmeRD]

Souttar and Munro got together after evacuating from Antwerp and Ghent, and started up a new medical unit in Furnes (15 miles east of Dunkirk). Secker was obviously a useful and resourceful individual - more than just a humble dresser.

MB

Apologies again, Dr = driver (not dresser).

Edited 4 March , 2023 by KizmeRD

[horatio2]

Notwithstanding his strange MIC entry, I must re-state the fact that if Secker was not commissioned RN, RM, RNR or RNVR he could not have been a Lieutenant in the RND. His notional "RND attached RFC Lieutenant " is not supported by any date, by any naval service record nor by an entry in the Navy List that I have found. His AIR 76 RFC record commences with a first entry in 1916 and makes no mention of his being attached from the RND. His army record  - https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C1128783   should have details of previous service, should @williywonkerwish to obtain a copy. 

Unless convincing evidence can be found of a naval commission I maintain my belief that the MIC entry is incorrect. I suppose he may (notionally) have been attached to the RND (but where? BEF, UK or MEF?) as a civilian dresser (or driver, per MIC) but no furthe detail is provided and he does not merit an ADM 339 RND record. The MIC gives forename "Jack H"; "John Hugh" per AIR 76.

I am not persuaded.

[KizmeRD]

According to his AIR 76 he was a  RFC Special Reserve officer, which as far as I understand it was a direct entry route into the RFC - as opposed to being recruited in from another unit. He served in a kite balloon company (Technical Officer, EO2), advancing through Belgium into Germany (ended up in Cologne after the Armistice).

MB

Edited 5 March , 2023 by KizmeRD

[williywonker]

I'm not disagreeing with you H2 just showing the source of my original post.

Mal

[Niko]

We just placed some new boards at Fort2, Antwerp, showing fortress Antwerp between 1865 and 1914....

 

[KizmeRD]

That’s looks great Nico, I’m keen to visit Antwerp this summer in order to see it for myself, and to better understand the events of 1914..

MB