19th London Regiment (St Pancras)

[jnormanangel]

The Regimental War Memorial in St Pancras church. Yourr ggf is almost at the top, exactly 1/4 of the way in from the right.

Dear Charles

Thank you for the information regarding my great grandfather Stephen Redding and the photos of the memorials

I have tried to email you but your inbox is full i will keep trying but I did not want to wait any longer to send you my thanks for your time and kindness

with kind regards

Judith

[Charles Fair]

Hello Judith - I actually think you have been trying to Private Message me (using the 'send message button') and not send an email. My PM box fills up as soon as I create space in it, so emails are preferred. However, you can email me instead. You need to go to my profile where you can find another button on which sends an email below the PM button.

Charles

[Greenwoodman]

Charles, may I ask if you can give me any information on William Frederick Filler, Private, Regtl no 32, 19th Londons, died of wounds 15/09/16, age 25, buried Dartmoor Cemetery Becordel-Becourt? b. Tottenham, e. Camden Town, r. Paddington. I've recently discovered that he has a Sandbach connection.

[Chris Grimshaw]

Hello Charles

Quote

"I have complete photocopies of the complete War Diaries for the:

1/19th (141 Bde, 47 Div) March 1915 - Apr 1919

2/19th (180 Bde, 60 Div) Jan 1915 - May 1919

Also a complete copy of the BWM/Victory Medal rolls for the 19th which I am in the process of putting on computer "

Came across your post on the 2/19, I am currently researching the 60th Division during their time in Salonika.

Is there any chance of a copy of the War diary covering November 1916 to end of June 1917 which covers their move from France, time in Salonika and move to Egypt please.

I have a copy of the Regimental History of the 23rd London Regiment and am happy to do look ups if there is anything you are interested in.

Regards Chris

[Charles Fair]

Charles, may I ask if you can give me any information on William Frederick Filler, Private, Regtl no 32, 19th Londons, died of wounds 15/09/16, age 25, buried Dartmoor Cemetery Becordel-Becourt? b. Tottenham, e. Camden Town, r. Paddington. I've recently discovered that he has a Sandbach connection.

Sadly I dont know much more than you do as I only have SDGW and CWGC info. The only additional point is from the medal rolls which state that he was one of the original contingent of the 1/19th which arrived in France on 10 March 1915.

You have probably deduced already from his very low service number that he was a pre-war enlistment and in fact enlisted in the TF on 1 April 1908. This in turn implies prior Volunteer service I would like to see his service records as his age at death implies that he was very young when he joined up. Am just wondering whether age as per CWGC is incorrect.

[Charles Fair]

Came across your post on the 2/19, I am currently researching the 60th Division during their time in Salonika.

Is there any chance of a copy of the War diary covering November 1916 to end of June 1917 which covers their move from France, time in Salonika and move to Egypt please.

Chris - yes, I now have this electronically. have PMd you. I am also researching 60 Div in Salonika and was in fact looking around that area in September.

[Charles Fair]

I have had several queries about the 19th Londons, both on and off the GWF in recent weeks (must be something to do with the 90th anniversary). This seems line a good time to post a list of the most useful threads that deal with the history of the 19th for future reference and ease of finding. Please click on the following links:

Jewish Officers in the London TF

Imperial Service Obligation and Termination of Engagement

RAMC transfers to the London Regiment (60th Division), 1916

1/19th Battalion strength 1/19th 1915-1918

1/19th Casualties 1915-1918

1/19th on Vimy Ridge, Spring 1916

1/19th Trench raid June 1916

1/19th Christmas 1917

1/19th US troops attached, July 1918

2/19th and the capture of Jerusalem, December 1917

Transfer of officers and men of 2nd Bn Leicestershire Regt to 2/19th in March 1919

I will edit this post as and when future useful threads develop.

[Charles Fair]

I should also add my own paper on the 19th Londons titled The Changing Character of the London Territorial Force 1914-18: The case of the 19th (County of London) Battalion, The London Regiment (St. Pancras)

You may download it for free from the BCMH website.

Go to http://www.bcmh.org.uk/, click on 'Archive', then on 'BCMH Conference Reports' then scroll down to the bottom of the table where you see Conference 2008 - Volunteers & Reserve Forces and download the conference papers. The paper is about 35 pages.

It will also be published in an edited version in Records, the Journal of the Douglas Haig Fellowship under the title London Pride: The Changing Character of a Working Class Territorial Battalion, 1914-18 later in 2009.

Edited 25 June , 2009 by Charles Fair

[westkent78]

Looking forward to digesting this later on Charles.

Congratulations on getting the paper published.

Should provide some avenues of research I hadn't even considered.

Thanks for providing the link.

Best regards,

Matthew

[mick lowry]

Charles

I have reason to believe that my half brothers grandfather took part in the raid on the german trenches 27/28th June 1916 in the

angres section near to the Bully craters undertaken by the 19th London Regt. under operation order 66.

He was Pioneer George Dawson 4th Bn. spec. bde., Royal Engineers 129977. I think he must have been attached to the 19th LR.

I think he may have been one of the men who died from gas poisoning in the 1/4 London field ambulance during the day of 28th June.

He and a colleague Pioneer Arthur King are buried next to each other in Bully-Grenay military cemetary. There is also a Rifleman J Ashdown

of the London Regt. died 25/06/16 buried next to them

Do you have tyhe various war diaries that might confirm this and if it is so what role might he have played in the raid.

He went to France in March 1916, not sure when he might have been attached to 19th LR.

I would be most grateful for any further info you may be able to give me.

I have also sent you a similar reply of your other post ref. German 31st RIR so my apologies if you already have this in hand.

Regards

Mick

[pansypetal]

Hi

I would be very interested to know if there is any mention of my great grandfather Harry Harvey Turton mentioned in the diaries, struggling to find any details of his service I have been told by an elderly relative that they think he served in either the 19th or 21 st London Regiment.

Thanks

Heather

[lisajanedun]

Dear Sirs

I am researching a Percy Holmes who served in the 19th Battalion of the London (Pancras) regiment and wondered if anyone had a mention of him in the war diaries. Thankyou for any help anyone can give.

With Best Wishes

Lisa

[Guest]

Charles - I wonder if you can help me? I am researching a Private called Frank Johnston who served with the 19th (St Pancras) and was killed on 15 September 1916. I understand the 19th may have been in action at both Flers-Courcelette and High Wood on that day. Would you be able to share what the War Diary says for the 15th? 

[Guest]

Hi there.. I’ve just found this forum whilst looking for information about one of my ancestors who died in October 1918 and was in the 1/19th London regiment - as far as I can tell ??

If you’re still following this thread Charles, I’d be grateful for any information you might have on George Barclay G/53857

 

Many thanks 

[Guest]

I am not sure if this is still updated but I was trying to find out more about my great uncle who died at Ypres

The details I have of him are: Died: 21-Aug-1917, Private, London Regiment, 1st/19th Bn., Service# 611849, Location: Panels 52 to 54.

Many thanks 

[Guest]

On 18/06/2003 at 20:30, Charles Fair said:

I have complete photocopies of the complete War Diaries for the:

1/19th (141 Bde, 47 Div) March 1915 - Apr 1919

2/19th (180 Bde, 60 Div) Jan 1915 - May 1919

Also a complete copy of the BWM/Victory Medal rolls for the 19th which I am in the process of putting on computer

Hi Charles-- are you willing to share your copy of the 1/19th War Diary? 

[Guest]

Dear Charles

 

I believe my Great Grandad, Walter Arthur Drane, 614444, served with the 2/19th London Regiment 1914-1919 I presume he was at Salonica and Palestine before heading to Egypt where he died on 15th January 1919, aged 26, in Alexandria. I see the regiment left Alexandria that March. 

Can you tell me anything more about his service in the regiment please?

 

His Great Grandaughter

 

Natalie

[Beckierosie1984]

Hi Charles,

 

I wonder if I can pick your brain if possible?

 

I am a History university student based in Devon, writing a piece on local history which also has to incorporate the effect on the greater world.

For my assignment I am writing about my Great Uncle 3x removed, who, fought and died in the Great War and is buried in Montigny in France.

 

would you know how I can find perhaps old letters, memoirs etc? 

 

I have consulted family, Ancestry and local archives to no avail!

 

Any help would be greatly received,

 

Many thanks in advance

 

Beckie Reed

 

Ernest Frederick Collins

pte. G/44651

Miidlesex reg, posted to 1/19th Londons, st. pancras.

[Guest]

On 19/06/2003 at 01:30, Charles Fair said:

I have complete photocopies of the complete War Diaries for the:

1/19th (141 Bde, 47 Div) March 1915 - Apr 1919

2/19th (180 Bde, 60 Div) Jan 1915 - May 1919

Also a complete copy of the BWM/Victory Medal rolls for the 19th which I am in the process of putting on computer

Hi Charles,

I've been sporadically researching my Great Great Uncle, Henry Chalkright, who served in the 1/19th (I believe in B Company), and was killed in action in October 1917. Is there anywhere online I can see the war diaries for the 1/19th? I'm trying to piece together as much information as possible on the battalion's movements to get an idea of where he might have been when he fell. Sadly the holy grail of a photograph still eludes me!

Thanks

[ajsmith]

 Welcome to the forum.

The war diaries of the 1/19th are available from the National Archives here https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354564 they are currently free once you register. Don't hang about though as charging may be restored as lockdown eases.

[Guest]

Thanks so much, I'm downloading them now

[clk]

Hi Chris,

 

It might be worth reading the Bn diary in conjunction with the 141 Infantry Brigade HQ diary. At the National Archives it's here.

 

His CWGC record indicates that he was originally buried at map reference 51b.B.17.c.5.0 which would probably be quite close to where he originally fell. There is help on reading map references here. This link should open up on a map from November 1917 with square (51b) B.17 in the centre.

 

It looks like Henry probably joined up in late May 1915.

 

4642/611477 Carter - enlisted 29.5.1915

4646/611480 Cox - enlisted 29.5.1915

4648/611482

4652/611485 Green - enlisted 29.5.1915

4654/             Harber - enlisted 31.5.1915

4653/611486 Hinckley - enlisted 29.5.1915

 

The gap in his overseas service dates shown on his medal roll record probably represents hospitalisation/convalescence in the UK.

 

Regards

Chris 

Edited 16 August , 2020 by clk

[Paul Moss]

Hello, I am researching my Great Uncle - Pte Sidney Walter Allwright. He Served in France from 19 Aug - 2 Nov 1915 and was discharged on 17 January 1916. I would like to know what happened to him; I am presuming that he was injured at one of the battles. I have a letter from a relative that states that he won the MM for cutting wire under fire, but can find no record of this. I have his 1WW medals and the MM is not among them, so maybe he was recommended but not awarded? Sidney died in January 2018, from injuries received I believe.

 

Any information would be most welcome.

 

Thanks

 

Paul

[Michelle Young]

Welcome to the forum Paul. I would download (free) the war diaries from the National Archives site. 

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C7354564

The battle of Loos which took place in September and October 1915 should be described, (I haven't read them) After the battle finished, there were no other major actions that year, but he could just as easily been wounded during routine trench holding duties., which did include raids. The Divisional history describes the sector of the line which was held following Loos, as "remarkably unpleasant"

 

I assume his date of death is a typo.

Michelle

 

[Paul Moss]

Hi Michelle,

 

Thank you for the quick response. I did check the war diaries for the 1/19th and unfortunately, there is a note saying the diaries are missing for Sep/Oct 1915! Maybe they were destroyed in the battle. Yes, typo on date of death - should be 1918. Any other thoughts would be appreciated, if only your single malt recommendations.

 

Cheers

 

Paul