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The Great War (1914-1918) Forum

Remembered Today:

19th London Regiment (St Pancras)


Charles Fair

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Hi Paul,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Sidney has a set of service papers on Findmypast (link), which should also be available on Ancestry. It would appear that his discharge was due to him being no longer being physically fit for war service due to sickness. 

image.png.2e2d7787c8acc67271e218be20f0871e.png

Image sourced from Findmypast

 

There are some pension index cards on Fold3, one of which shows:

image.png.7a67be6c1a3c7563b3485f06f9332604.png

Image sourced from Fold3

 

Regards

Chris

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Hi Chris,

 

Thanks so much for the info and tip. I didn't have those papers. I'll check out Ancestry as I have an account there.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

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Certainly the conditions in the Loos sector weren’t conducive to good health, and could well have  contributed to his early demise. 

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1 hour ago, Paul Moss said:

I did check the war diaries for the 1/19th and unfortunately, there is a note saying the diaries are missing for Sep/Oct 1915!

 

Hi Paul,

 

If you wanted to try to bridge that gap, it might be worth downloading the Brigade HQ diaries - September 1915 is here, and October here.

 

Regards

Chris

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  • 7 months later...
On 16/08/2020 at 13:24, Guest said:

Hi Charles,

I've been sporadically researching my Great Great Uncle, Henry Chalkright, who served in the 1/19th (I believe in B Company), and was killed in action in October 1917. Is there anywhere online I can see the war diaries for the 1/19th? I'm trying to piece together as much information as possible on the battalion's movements to get an idea of where he might have been when he fell. Sadly the holy grail of a photograph still eludes me!

Thanks

What a coincidence. Henry Chalkright is my great grandfather on my father's side. I would love to know more about him and planning on visiting the Orchard Dump cemetery as soon as possible.Lance Corporal H Chalkright - CWGC Certificate.pdf

Edited by SG2ndBtnLndRgt19
to add file
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Unfortunately, the person whose post you have replied to is no longer a member here, as denoted by Guest. You can access the war diaries free of charge after you register at the National Archives website. @Charles Fair isn’t on the forum much these days, but I have tagged him.

Michelle 

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Thank you Michelle. I have the war diaries downloaded, also for the 2nd battalion scots guards (my other great grandfather) Seems I have a lot of reading to do.

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Hi SG2ndBtnLndRgt19,

Welcome to the forum.

The medal rolls for Henry show his overseas service as (Ancestry link):

image.png.c8c89e1b51de5be781724a1f33a949cb.png
Image sourced from Ancestry

He had two service numbers (4648 and 611482) because there was a general renumber of the TF in 1917. Albeit limited (and under the mis-transcribed surname of Chalklin) FMP here do have some service papers - they should also be available on Ancestry.

The 'headlines' of his records are:
image.png.c5798352af901c726149de50650544c3.png

image.png.b3f7d4cd7d1b15afc087ccf63c431385.png
Images sourced from Findmypast

The gap in his overseas dates would appear to be that having been admitted to 6 General Hospital (in Rouen), Henry was evacuated back to the UK where he received treatment for PUO (Pyrexia of Unknown Origin) at the 2nd Southern General Hospital (in Bristol), before returned to France.

His Soldiers Effects record names his wife as being his 'sole legatee'. The use of that term implies that Henry left what was considered/accepted as being his will. I didn't see it though in the most obvious place to look - link.

In his CWGC records there is a 'Concentration Sheet', which records that Henry was moved to his current burial location from map reference 51B.B.17.c.5.0 It is most likely to be closer to where he originally fell, and can be located by using the reference in this website - link, It would be interesting to compare with the events/places shown in the Battalion war diary. The Brigade HQ diary  and Division HQ (General Staff) diary may also give you more context.

In advance of your planed visit to Orchard Dump, if you would like a decent quality image of his grave, it looks like the good folk at British War Graves (link) would be able to send you one on a FoC basis.

Regards
Chris

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1 hour ago, clk said:

Hi SG2ndBtnLndRgt19,

Welcome to the forum.

The medal rolls for Henry show his overseas service as (Ancestry link):

image.png.c8c89e1b51de5be781724a1f33a949cb.png
Image sourced from Ancestry

He had two service numbers (4648 and 611482) because there was a general renumber of the TF in 1917. Albeit limited (and under the mis-transcribed surname of Chalklin) FMP here do have some service papers - they should also be available on Ancestry.

The 'headlines' of his records are:
image.png.c5798352af901c726149de50650544c3.png

image.png.b3f7d4cd7d1b15afc087ccf63c431385.png
Images sourced from Findmypast

The gap in his overseas dates would appear to be that having been admitted to 6 General Hospital (in Rouen), Henry was evacuated back to the UK where he received treatment for PUO (Pyrexia of Unknown Origin) at the 2nd Southern General Hospital (in Bristol), before returned to France.

His Soldiers Effects record names his wife as being his 'sole legatee'. The use of that term implies that Henry left what was considered/accepted as being his will. I didn't see it though in the most obvious place to look - link.

In his CWGC records there is a 'Concentration Sheet', which records that Henry was moved to his current burial location from map reference 51B.B.17.c.5.0 It is most likely to be closer to where he originally fell, and can be located by using the reference in this website - link, It would be interesting to compare with the events/places shown in the Battalion war diary. The Brigade HQ diary  and Division HQ (General Staff) diary may also give you more context.

In advance of your planed visit to Orchard Dump, if you would like a decent quality image of his grave, it looks like the good folk at British War Graves (link) would be able to send you one on a FoC basis.

Regards
Chris

Thank you so much Chris. I was aware that he had been re-interned at Orchard Dump and it would be great if we could also visit close to where he fell.

Again, thank you.

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  • 1 year later...

I have just found this forum and thread from an article in Who Do You Think You Are? Magazine. Thank you so much to @Charles Fairfor he work done. 

My grandfather Robert John Carey served in the 1/19th, rose to Lieutenant and several times to acting Captain. He was mentioned in dispatches, and wounded. His brother-in-law Samuel McVicker also served (their friendship probably led to Sam's marriage in 1918) .

I've not found why he was mentioned in dispatches, nor what he was doing and where he was when wounded. They may have been the same event. 

Is there any more information within the records? Is the Access database available to search? Perhaps put on archive.org? Do any forum members have any more information. 

Edited by LVA2o7T7GUEW
Picked up wrong @reference
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Hi LVA2o7T7GUEW.

Welcome to the Forum.

As an officer, his wounding may be recorded in the Battalion war diary ('Other Ranks' don't tend to be named, and often just appear as a number count). It is available as a free download from the National Archives - link.

Regards
Chris

Edit:
Alternatively, what's left of his service file appears to be held by the National Archives, though not available as a download - link. My guess is that it would record his date of wounding, which you could then cross reference back to the Battalion/Brigade, etc war diaries.

Edited by clk
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On 15/01/2023 at 20:13, clk said:

Hi LVA2o7T7GUEW.

Welcome to the Forum.

As an officer, his wounding may be recorded in the Battalion war diary ('Other Ranks' don't tend to be named, and often just appear as a number count). It is available as a free download from the National Archives - link.

Regards
Chris

Edit:
Alternatively, what's left of his service file appears to be held by the National Archives, though not available as a download - link. My guess is that it would record his date of wounding, which you could then cross reference back to the Battalion/Brigade, etc war diaries.

Thank you.

I do have his WO374, 65 pages at huge cost from national archives, which in January and June 1918 shows in Medical Board Reports, when he was at Inns of Court OTC Roehampton, Origin of Disability as 28/11/17 in France. It says he was improving, and that it was attributable to military service as a GSW in action. The remaining results of the wound were described and he was declared fit for home service. AH!  There is a later letter FROM HIM seeking a wound gratuity saying that he "was wounded in the Left Ankle & Left Buttock by a shell at Bourlon Wood on November 28th '17". There is no record of any reply.

I'd not appreciated just how much information is hidden there in different documents that I had originally glossed over because at first glance they were routine red tape, sometimes duplicated and not in order, sometimes little more than squiggles. I'd not properly read letters that begin " Dear Sir, I have the honour to acknowledge your correspondence of the 6th inst." one of which commenting that he had received two contradictory orders of reporting to a unit or taking three weeks leave, and ending "I have the honour to be, Sir, Your obedient servant". Then a similarly topped and tailed letter from his Major forwarding that on, and what appears to be a further request for confirmation of the orders from CiC Southern Command a month later following a medical board. Signs of the times, much more formal than we are now used to. Astounding that these were kept when so much has been destroyed to save space.

The WO374 include his arrival report on 12 December, and a medical board report on 12 Jan suggesting 6 1/2 weeks incapacity. Fragments of shell in each wound.

I've now found the War Diaries (thank you), and he is indeed mentioned. "Reconnaissance of BOURLON by C.O. & other officers.  Lt. Carey wounded." The next day, the company advanced to that place.

There is no mention of him on the day of his Mention in Despatches, but further investigation shows that it was earlier. The information is from a small card originally found on TheGenealogist and Ancestry, and then in the Gazette for that date on p5169 "2nd Lt. (actg. Capt.) R. J". It appears to be a round-up of many MiD records, stating on an earlier page "War Office, 25th May, 1917. The following is in continuation of Sir Douglas Haig's Despatch* of 15th April, submitting names deserving of special mention, published in the London Gazette of Tuesday. 15th May, 1917: —" and "* The list of names is being published in six separate Supplements at intervals of a few days".  

It looks as though I might need to read through the War Diaries day by day prior to April.

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