Walter Chettleburgh 38159

[dbe]

My grandfather served in WW1 in Italy. Unfortunately,his service record is not available. His medal card gives his regiment as the Suffolk Regiment, but he seems to have transferred to the Middlesex Regiment before being posted to Italy. He did not return to the Western Front with the regiment but remained in Italy. The only record he left are his notes form the Eastern Command School of Cookery at Portslade (Feb-March 1917), Postcards from Chatham, Brighton, Italy, and a collection of badges.  From his postcards he was in Milan, possibly on the Asiago Plateau, Venice, Rome Naples and Sorrento, before possibly sailing home. His last postcard has a Christmas greeting in  Spanish - Gibraltar? He also caught malaria  while abroad..

I wonder if anyone can help with the following questions:

i) Any information on the School of Cookery at Portslade or where I can look for it.

ii) How cooks were incorporated into the system of things in the army at the front.

iii) How and where were soldiers treated for malaria in Italy?

iv) Did any units travel home by sea from Naples?

 

As I live in Sweden and the Coronavirus has affected travel I am very dependent on online sources, which seem to be limited in some areas. Any suggestions/replies to my questions above are most welcome

[jonbem]

13 minutes ago, dbe said:

Eastern Command School of Cookery at Portslade

Hi and welcome to the forum

 

have you come across this in your search?

http://portsladehistory.blogspot.com/2015/02/army-cookery-in-great-war.html

 

regards

Jon

[dbe]

Dear Jon,

Many thanks for your speedy reply. Much appreciated. Yes, I have seen that posting on the web. It provides some very useful information, and also gives a good deal of what I already had gathered from my grandfather's notebook and the Manual of Military Cooking and Dietary 1915, which is one of his memorabilia. I tried to contact the author of the site without success and even was in touch with the Keep, the County Archives in Brighton. The Archives had no further information. What I was looking for was information about how and why the School was established there, why certain soldiers were selected for training at the School, how many were trained there and any further information on where the soldiers went afterwards. According to my grandfather's notes, he was there for about 3 weeks to a month in February/March 1917. Whether he was then sent to the Western Front and later onto the Italian Front,there seems to be no record, but he must have travelled to Italy in November 1917. I found the information I  have acquired about the School of Cookery  most interesting as it sheds light on an often forgotten aspect of warfare- the feeding of the troops. It would be of interest to find out more about how cooks spent their lives during the war.

 

I attach a photo of my grandfather in with what i believe is a Middlesex Regiment badge.

 

David

[jonbem]

There are some details on page 69 of https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bully-Beef-Biscuits-Food-Great/dp/1473827450 about the school

It was in the grounds of Windlesham House Prep School, about 38 huts. You may find other useful information in the book.

[dbe]

That looks interesting . Thanks for the reference. Will check it out.

David

[charlie962]

6 hours ago, dbe said:

His medal card gives his regiment as the Suffolk Regiment

dbe,

the Medal Roll, from which the Medal Index Card is derived, actually shows his overseas service as 1 G Bn Suff, which means the 1st Garrison Battalion. 

 

The LongLongTrail (see tab at top left of screen), tells us:

1st (Reserve) Garrison Battalion
Formed in Wendover in Buckinghamshire in early March 1916. In May 1916 it moved to Tilbury and next month went to Gravesend in Kent. Detachments of the battalion were soon established at Tilbury, Queenborough, Leysdown, Thames Haven, Cliffe Fort, Kynoch Town, Pitsea, Weedon and other locations, It carried out guard, escort and similar duties. One company of the battalion then moved to France, where it then remained as “lines of communication” troops. The main body of the battalion moved to Grain Island in 1918.

 

Normally if he served in active theatres overseas with other units it would be noted on the Roll but there is no mention; Do you have a date on the back of the photo card ? Are you sure he was Middlesex after Suffolk not before ?

 

Charlie

 

Edit-  This old thread discusses Reserve Garrison Battalions as opposed to Garrison Battalions. So may need clarification. There is mention that Suffolks sent two other companies to 'the Mediterranean'. I wonder where that leads ?

edit-edit-

This other old thread also talks about Italy and the Suffolks and Garrison Bn without coming to a definite conclusion. But it does imply he could still be Suffolks in Italy.

Edited 6 July , 2020 by charlie962

[charlie962]

5 hours ago, dbe said:

iv) Did any units travel home by sea from Naples?

I'm sure they did although most frequently they landed at Marseilles and went across France by train then short cross-channel hop. Others also went across Italy then France by train. When the troops went to Italy in the first place most went from France, I think, and thus took a train journey all the way.

 

It must have largely depended on the availability at the time of the various means of transport.

 

Just my thoughts so await more authoritative views !

 

Charlie

 

 

[charlie962]

Further to an edit of my post above I've looked up the record referred to in that old Forum thread.

It is Charles William Bressington, an old soldier from other Infantry Regiments who ends up being posted to No2 Coy, 1st Reserve Garrison Battalion, Suffolk regiment on 2/9/17 and is issued with number 38679 (  so not long after Chettleburgh 38159 ?) and Bressington ended up in Italy, still under Suffolks Badge.

 

Note similar service numbers eg 38157 was issued to an ex Middlesex Regt man posted to 1st Sussex Res Garrison Bn on 28/6/17-  have a look at his service record, Fred Fitzsimmons, he also went to the cookery school at Stroud although that was not his trade ?

 

 

More work to be done here. Any Suffolks Garrison Bn experts ? @Ron Clifton it was you who commented amongst others; any updated thoughts please ?

 

Charlie

Edited 6 July , 2020 by charlie962

[dbe]

charlie962

Many thanks for your help. I had got as far as the Long Long Trail reference to the 1st Garrison Battalion, but did not have the additional information that some companies were sent to the Mediterranean and Italy.

The sources I have for my grandfather's service are family memorabilia, (war medals, postcards to my mother, presents to his children, notebook from Portslade and a collection of cap badges) rather than official records. The medal roll card is the only information I have through the National Archives and Ancestry. I believe his service record was destroyed during the blitz in WW2.

The postcards provide some information. Though they are not dated the messages on the back give clues to rough dates, i.e. birthdays, holidays, Christmas and Easter. The first few denote Chatham, then Brighton. One is an embroidered card of the Middlesex Regiment badge which is said to be Dadda's - the card is addressed to his daughter, my mother. This postcard is odd as it seems not to be written by my Grandfather- not his writing or way of address- the address also has an error, which suggest that it was written and sent for him from Chatham, though the card itself seems to have been made in France-- a sudden posting?

 

The remainder of the postcard collection, except the last one, are in Italian with Italian messages, places or people- there is one of  Italian soldiers marked 'Una sezione Mitragliatrici' - machine gun section- which I think is the end of May 1918. There are postcards of Milan (possibly late Nov 1917), Venice (summer 1918), Rome (early December 1918), Santa Croce del Sannio (north of Naples Dec 1918) and Sorrento (around or after Christmas 1918). The last one in Spanish is probably from Jan /Feb 1919.

2 Mandolins from Naples- make up the collection.

 

It is from these clues, I am trying to piece together my grandfather's war experience. So every piece of information from this forum is a great help and much appreciated.

 

I should add that my grandfather was 38, married with 2 children and was a baker in Norwich when he was called up, which is why I suspect that his first posting was with the Suffolks, with a garrison regiment-possibly intended for home service. Unfortunately the photograph of him in uniform is not dated. This is why tracing his actual service is both frustrating, exciting and interesting; and I wish I had spent more time talking to him of his war experiences when a child. He did teach us how to bayonet, though.

David

[charlie962]

David, It is an excellent project to write up a story behind those items of memorabilia. Yes, it is a shame that the service record has not survived but you do have an interesting personal collection of cards etc and I suspect that your GF followed a slightly different route to most infantrymen. He was spared the front-line fighting (?) but carried out an essential support role., and survived. He did earn the British War and Victory Medals.

 

You saw my thinking developing above. I am not a Suffolks expert ( nor an expert but an enthusiastic amateur)

To recap:

I still suspect your GF was Middlesex before Suffolk.

I suspect your GF will have been 1st Reserve Garrison Bn Suffolks in France and Italy, part of the Lines of Communication troops; guarding and maintaining those lines, railways etc.

He was probably 3rd Bn Suffolks back in UK when discharged.

There is work to be done going through similar Suffolk service numbers to look and see if any of those men have surviving service records. Whilst one has to be very carefull not to read too much into them, one can often find patterns and parallels. Once a man had joined a new Regiment (as opposed to Battalion within Regt) he was issued a new service number. So those with close numbers will have joined at the same time. Thereafter however their paths probably diverged but you should be able to unearth someone who followed a similar path to your GF. I have already noted above a couple with similar 'phases'. I will look for some more.

 

Lines of Communication Italy.  A search on Discovery National Archives for any War Diaries brings up a range of items but no mention of Suffolks. Sometimes these units crop up in other diaries but I could see an obvious choice. These diaries have not yet been digitised unfortunately.

 

Charlie

 

2 hours ago, dbe said:

He did teach us how to bayonet, though.

Has this proved useful in later life ?

[charlie962]

8 hours ago, charlie962 said:

I still suspect your GF was Middlesex before Suffolk.

My thinking in support of this is that:

1)  he is still on the Suffolks Medal Roll rather than, say, a Middlesex Roll.

2)  I have found others who were transferred from Middlesex Regt to 1st Reserve Garrison Bn Suffolks, and had no o'seas service with Middlesex.

-But I follow your logic about his origins and I haven't yet seen anyone else from Norfolk going to a Middlesex Bn then 1stGRBn Suffolks !

- see also my comment below on Chattenden/Chatham

 

8 hours ago, charlie962 said:

I suspect your GF will have been 1st Reserve Garrison Bn Suffolks in France and Italy, part of the Lines of Communication troops; guarding and maintaining those lines, railways etc.

I've searched for some background but not much yet.

1) No 2 Coy 1st Reserve Garrison Bn Suffolks is quoted by Charles Messenger(Call to Arms) as going to France in 1916.  There are a couple of Service Records I've seen of men who were posted to No2 Coy on 2/9/17 and embarked 5/9/17 . They subsequently served in Italy. (eg WR Kent 38172,  + CW Bressington 38679)

2) No 3 Coy 1st Reserve Garrison Bn Suffolks seems to have been formed Sept 1917. Subsequently seems to have remained in France.

I base this on a sample of 1 man ! 38790 J Penfold b 1883 FlowerSeller Surrey  -ex Queens then 1HSGBnMdx UK, posted to 1stGRBn Suffolks 5/9/17 'to form No3 Service Company', embarked 5/9/17; at Cherbourg 3/18, 5/18 and 6/18,( Les Flamands)

 

Note that last man Penfold came from the 1st (Home Service) Garrison Bn Middlesex Regt. May or may not have relevance for Chettleburgh ? I note from LLT that 1 HSGBn Middlesex was 'at Chattenden by Aug 1917' and that is only 4 miles from Chatham.

 

I do hope my rambling on is of some help rather than hindrance. I see there is a website called Friends of the Suffolk Regiment. Worth checking out ?

Charlie

 

Edited 7 July , 2020 by charlie962

[dbe]

Charlie,

No problem with your reflections on my GF. They are most helpful and have enabled me to shift focus which will enable me to continue searching in a more systematic manner.

Your suggestion that he was first Middlesex and then Suffolks would resolve a number of questions around his postcards. From the LLT I gather that 5 and 6 Battalions of the Middlesex Regiment were based at Chatham and as you point out the  1 HSGBn Middlesex was at Chattenden. So this would coincide with two postcards from Chatham Barracks. Which would have been odd if he had been 1 GN Battalion Suffolk Regiment.

The second problem with seeing service in Italy with a Middlesex Battalion is that he clearly did not return to France with them in March 1918. If he was with a Suffolk unit, then this explains more adequately his presence in Italy throughout his war service.

 

So, yes this line of approach may well prove more fruitful. The next problem I face is finding the Company he was with, when he transferred, and where they saw service in Italy. I will check the Friends of the Suffolk Regiment website and also the Regimental Archives at the Records Office in Bury St. Edmunds. 

 

I also need to find out more about why and when he was sent to Portslade- before or after joining the Suffolks?

 

I too have discovered that the War Diaries for the Italian Front have not been digitised yet, a pity.

 

As regards your query on bayoneting, I am pleased to say that I have not had any use of that skill in later life. I have noticed, though, in my reading around the topic that the use of the bayonet was not always considered popular by many officers who thought other skills more appropriate for trench warfare. I did however see one remark that it gave the British soldiers an (psychological) advantage in the last few yards of a charge when meeting the enemy face to face. My GF also showed us a different approach from that I have seen of roaring young men charging full tilt at sacks of straw. He showed "1, 2, 3 in twist and draw" as if it was a sword. I wasn't sure about the function of the twist and draw until I realised that a bayonet has a serrated edge which would catch the intestines of the enemy and effectively disembowel him when withdrawn. It seems a most gruesome process and I do not think my GF ever used it.

 

He did, however, have a dim view of Italians after they had attacked him one night on sentry duty and hit him with an iron bar, breaking his nose. He also contracted malaria when overseas and apparently suffered from recurrences later in life. After the war he returned to his wife and family and to the house he had rented on getting married. He then lived there for the rest of his life dying at the ripe age of 85. I believe he never went abroad again.

 

My project is rather wider than my GF. He is one of four brothers who went to war at the end of the 19th, beginning of the 20th centuries.

The oldest, George Clarke,  saw service with the 3rd KRRC in South Africa in 1899-1900. He was killed on the Tugela Heights on 22nd  Feb 1900 aged 26.

The youngest, Edward Albert (Ted) Chettleburgh signed up for the Rifle Brigade in Dec 1915 and was mobilised in February 1916. He was sent to France in June and joined his battalion near Arras at the end of the month. They went into the trenches near Roclincourt on 3rd July and he was killed  "at duty" by a shell on 5th July 1916, also aged 26.

The second oldest, Walter Chettleburgh, was my GF, who I am working on and the third oldest was Robert Chettleburgh who joined the Royal Engineers, was on the Western Front until war's end when he was sent to Port Said and finally discharged in 1920. He also returned home, eventually bought  small holding and lived until his late 70s. I don't think he ever went abroad again.

There are no heroes or villains here, just ordinary working men who answered the call to arms, did their duty and returned home, for some. Pretty much a common experience of most working-class families from that time both in the UK and the rest of Europe.It is something we perhaps forget in this age of plenty.

 

Please keep up the contact Charlie. Your insights are most valuable.

David

 

 

[charlie962]

4 hours ago, dbe said:

I also need to find out more about why and when he was sent to Portslade- before or after joining the Suffolks?

I think, from near numbers, that Walter was posted to 1st RGB Suufolks between 23/6/17 and end of month. In which case that would be after he did his cookery course ?

 

4 hours ago, dbe said:

until I realised that a bayonet has a serrated edge

German bayonets did but not British. The twist opens the wound and also helps extraction of bayonet !

 

4 hours ago, dbe said:

There are no heroes or villains here, just ordinary working men who answered the call to arms, did their duty and returned home, for some.

Ordinary men in extraordinary times. Researching these men, with additional memorabilia to hand, does make history come alive.

 

 

Charlie

[dbe]

Charlie

Many thanks for your help to date. My apologies for not responding sooner to your latest message, but we have had visitors- my wife's children and grandchildren-- which have demanded some attention.

 

I have spent some time trying to follow up on the individuaöl soldiers you have mentioned and any information I can glean on the Suffolk regiment.

The Suffolk Regiment History of the period has a very short section on the 1st Garrison Battalion and mentions one company abroad in France. It does however state that the battalion had some 200 officers and 1800 men, which strikes me as large for a battalion, but there may be a reason for this.

 

The records of Fred Fitzsimmons, 38157 and Charles William Bressington 38679 are both of interest. Both men were transferred from other regiments. Fitzsimmons was transferred from the Middlesex Regiment (originally 13th Battalion) on Thursday 28th June 1917. Interestingly his transfer is signed by the Captain Adjutant of the 5th Battalion Middlesex Regiment which was based at Chatham. Given that his number is only two less that my GF's (38159), it would seem likely that they were both transferred the same day. Fitzsimmons, an iron turner by trade, attended the School of Cookery in Stroud in September (my GF was in Portslade in Feb/March). He had been transferred because of trench foot, trench fever, a hernia and varicose veins, and it appears that his overseas medals were based on his service with the Middlesex rather than teh Suffolks.

 

Bressington, who joined the Suffolks on 1st September 1917, had also seen service with the Gloucesters and the West Kents. He joined No 2 Company and appears to have worked at his trade as a shoemaker from August to November 1918, unless I have misread the service record. He was hospitalised for 3 weeks in Nov/Dec and then granted leave to UK from which he seems to be transferred to home service with 3rd Suffolk. I wonder if his hospitalisation was influensa?

 

Both these men have a previous history of illness of some sort which might indicate that the men in this battalion were not considered suitable for front line duties.

 

I haven't been able to follow-up W. R. Kent as yet.

 

It would be useful to get information on the 3? companies of the 1st Gn. Btn. Suffolk Regt. and their record of service abroad. The online War Diaries seem incomplete. Did home based units keep war diaries?

 

Best

David

PS Thanks for correcting me on the bayonet.

[charlie962]

4 hours ago, dbe said:

did home based units keep war diaries

No, unfortunately.

 

I am hoping you will find Friends of Suffolk Regt have unearthed something on the 1st RGB Suffolks.

 

4 hours ago, dbe said:

Both these men have a previous history of illness of some sort which might indicate that the men in this battalion were not considered suitable for front line duties.

Yes, that's what I thought. Some, not all, had previous overseas service but inevitably through sickness and wounds were medically downgraded. Still fit enough for Garrison Battilion duties though.

Close service numbers are useful for events at the time of a transfer but become generally weak as indicators of subsequent movements. But it is worth looking at later numbers in that sort of range, which seems to relate to the Garrison Bn,  and you might find a man with a parallel path to your GF.  A need for persistance and a good dose of luck!

 

Charlie

[sadbrewer]

It may not be relevant, but  Chettleburgh 29725 W. (Norwich) was in a list of wounded from The Loyal North Lancs, published September 11th, 1917.

[charlie962]

1 hour ago, sadbrewer said:

It may not be relevant, but  Chettleburgh 29725

that Is William Isaac Chettleburgh, a differet man. There are a number of men with this surname and initial W, particularly from Norfolk !

[dbe]

Thanks for your comments Charlie, as always very useful.

Yes, the Chettleburghs are well-known name in Norfolk, and there are contingents in Yorkshire and Salisbury. My GF was related to a Salisbury man who joined the RAMC in the late 1880s.

I have posted a query on the badges and insignias forum to see if anyone can help in identifying my GF's collection of badges. I thought they might have more expertise there. If you would like to see them then I can post them here or, if you see the thread you may wish to comment here.

I shall be needing to consolidate my work for a while, so may appear more sporadically. However, your thoughts and comments are most helpful and gratefully received, so I hope you keep up the contact.

/David

 

PS Thanks to sadbrewer for becoming involved.

Edited 13 July , 2020 by dbe
missed response

[dbe]

Many thanks for all your help and apologies for not getting back to this sooner

Further to my research into my grandfather’s war service in Italy during WWI.

Unfortunately, no service records, except his medal cards, seem to exist for his service in the army during WWI. However, by collating his memorabilia, information about parallel soldiers’ lives and official records I have ascertained the following:

i)                    He was called up or conscripted probably in July 1916 and joined the 5^th Middlesex Regiment based at Chatham. In February 1917 he was sent to the Eastern Command School of Cookery in Portslade and was there until the end of March 1917. This is based on his postcards home, his enlistment photo, and his cookery notebook which has his regiment in. The 5^th Middlesex was a home-based unit, so he did not see service overseas with them.

ii)                   Sometime in 1917, probably at the end of June given his number, he is transferred to the 1^st Reserve Garrison Battalion Suffolk Regiment. This seems to have been something of a “clearing house” battalion where soldiers injured out of front-line service, elderly recruits and those classified as not fit for active service were sent to be reallocated to various home duties.

iii)                 The Battalion did however have three companies abroad: Companies 1, 2 and 3. Company 1 served in France, Company 2 served in Italy. I have checked the Order of Battle for France and Flanders for late 1916 and 1917 and the 1^st Reserve Garrison Battalion Suffolk Regiment, Coy 1 is recorded under Lines of Communications Units, sub-section infantry.

Unfortunately, War Diaries for LoC Units, Infantry do not reveal where this company saw service though similar units were mentioned in War Diaries from Rouen. Frank Boyce from the 1^st Reserve Garrison Battalion Suffolk Regiment appears in hospital in Cherbourg and Rouen and Joseph Penfold was charged with drunkenness at Les Flamands near Rouen. The few war graves of men from this battalion are spread around northern France – Cherbourg, Calais, Étaples, Bourgogne.

iv)                 Most interestingly for my research is No 2 Company. From soldiers’ records it seems that this company was formed in late August/early September in Chatham, sent to Aldershot for inspection and embarked Folkstone 5^th September arriving Boulogne 6^th September. This is based on the records of the following soldiers: Pte Oakes, Pte William Richard Kent, Pte Charles Baldwin Ruebens, Pte Wiliam Owen, Pte Frank Boyce, Lance Corporal Grimsey, Pte Louis Daniel Ralph Nincham, Pte James Thompson, Pte Day. All of these I have found on Ancestry War Service Records.

v)                   The official history of the war in Italy records this company being LoC Infantry at Arquata in June 1918, but strangely not in the autumn of 1917. Lance-corporal Grimsey, for example, was late for morning parade on 27^th September 1917 in Cimino Camp, Taranto. Throughout 1918 there are references to Arquata, (Nincham) and Taranto (Thompson Kent, Bressington). The same seems to be true of 1919. Some soldiers are sent on home leave in early 1919 and then leave the army (Kent, Owen and Rueben – February, May and June) November and December 1919 see three soldiers in Arquata (Day, Waters, Gillman) one of whom is suffering from Malaria. In December 1919 Lance Corporal Thompson is still in Taranto.

 

Unfortunately, the National Archives records for WWI in Italy have not been digitised yet so it is difficult for me to research further at the moment. However, I have reached the conclusion that my grandfather was transferred to No2 Coy 1^st Reserve Garrison Battalion Suffolk Regiment in early September 1917 and was sent abroad with them on 5^th September. This company was a Lines of Communications unit and was sent to Italy, probably via the Lyons – Turin route. The company then acted as an infantry unit, probably sentry duty, along the Lines of Communication stretching from Taranto in the south of Italy, along the east coast, and then across to Milan and Turin or the more southerly route via Genoa and Nice into France and on to Cherbourg. This was a vital transport link, but little seems to be written on it. A number of units were retained in Italy after the cessation of hostilities and many soldiers did not get home until late 1919.

I intend to follow up the official records by visiting the National Archives sometime soon. However, it would be helpful to know if anyone has more information on the above or knows where I can acquire information/details of Lines of Communications units. This vital artery seems to be seldom mentioned in the major accounts of the war.

while since I was active here. Largely because the pandemic prevented research other than online. Also a death in the family postponed things.

[charlie962]

Well done. 

Charlie

[Matlock1418]

Disability pension claim card at WFA:

Walter CHETTLEBURGH, 38159, Suffolk Regt.

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

I think the stamped number, 141793, suggests the claim was rejected [in cases of rejection a number was more normally stamped centre-top but I suspect it was relocated in this case due to the limited space there]

M

Edited 18 September , 2022 by Matlock1418
explanation

[FROGSMILE]

On 18/09/2022 at 17:22, dbe said:

Many thanks for all your help and apologies for not getting back to this sooner

Further to my research into my grandfather’s war service in Italy during WWI.

Unfortunately, no service records, except his medal cards, seem to exist for his service in the army during WWI. However, by collating his memorabilia, information about parallel soldiers’ lives and official records I have ascertained the following:

i)                    He was called up or conscripted probably in July 1916 and joined the 5^th Middlesex Regiment based at Chatham. In February 1917 he was sent to the Eastern Command School of Cookery in Portslade and was there until the end of March 1917. This is based on his postcards home, his enlistment photo, and his cookery notebook which has his regiment in. The 5^th Middlesex was a home-based unit, so he did not see service overseas with them.

ii)                   Sometime in 1917, probably at the end of June given his number, he is transferred to the 1^st Reserve Garrison Battalion Suffolk Regiment. This seems to have been something of a “clearing house” battalion where soldiers injured out of front-line service, elderly recruits and those classified as not fit for active service were sent to be reallocated to various home duties.

iii)                 The Battalion did however have three companies abroad: Companies 1, 2 and 3. Company 1 served in France, Company 2 served in Italy. I have checked the Order of Battle for France and Flanders for late 1916 and 1917 and the 1^st Reserve Garrison Battalion Suffolk Regiment, Coy 1 is recorded under Lines of Communications Units, sub-section infantry.

Unfortunately, War Diaries for LoC Units, Infantry do not reveal where this company saw service though similar units were mentioned in War Diaries from Rouen. Frank Boyce from the 1^st Reserve Garrison Battalion Suffolk Regiment appears in hospital in Cherbourg and Rouen and Joseph Penfold was charged with drunkenness at Les Flamands near Rouen. The few war graves of men from this battalion are spread around northern France – Cherbourg, Calais, Étaples, Bourgogne.

iv)                 Most interestingly for my research is No 2 Company. From soldiers’ records it seems that this company was formed in late August/early September in Chatham, sent to Aldershot for inspection and embarked Folkstone 5^th September arriving Boulogne 6^th September. This is based on the records of the following soldiers: Pte Oakes, Pte William Richard Kent, Pte Charles Baldwin Ruebens, Pte Wiliam Owen, Pte Frank Boyce, Lance Corporal Grimsey, Pte Louis Daniel Ralph Nincham, Pte James Thompson, Pte Day. All of these I have found on Ancestry War Service Records.

v)                   The official history of the war in Italy records this company being LoC Infantry at Arquata in June 1918, but strangely not in the autumn of 1917. Lance-corporal Grimsey, for example, was late for morning parade on 27^th September 1917 in Cimino Camp, Taranto. Throughout 1918 there are references to Arquata, (Nincham) and Taranto (Thompson Kent, Bressington). The same seems to be true of 1919. Some soldiers are sent on home leave in early 1919 and then leave the army (Kent, Owen and Rueben – February, May and June) November and December 1919 see three soldiers in Arquata (Day, Waters, Gillman) one of whom is suffering from Malaria. In December 1919 Lance Corporal Thompson is still in Taranto.

 

Unfortunately, the National Archives records for WWI in Italy have not been digitised yet so it is difficult for me to research further at the moment. However, I have reached the conclusion that my grandfather was transferred to No2 Coy 1^st Reserve Garrison Battalion Suffolk Regiment in early September 1917 and was sent abroad with them on 5^th September. This company was a Lines of Communications unit and was sent to Italy, probably via the Lyons – Turin route. The company then acted as an infantry unit, probably sentry duty, along the Lines of Communication stretching from Taranto in the south of Italy, along the east coast, and then across to Milan and Turin or the more southerly route via Genoa and Nice into France and on to Cherbourg. This was a vital transport link, but little seems to be written on it. A number of units were retained in Italy after the cessation of hostilities and many soldiers did not get home until late 1919.

I intend to follow up the official records by visiting the National Archives sometime soon. However, it would be helpful to know if anyone has more information on the above or knows where I can acquire information/details of Lines of Communications units. This vital artery seems to be seldom mentioned in the major accounts of the war.

while since I was active here. Largely because the pandemic prevented research other than online. Also a death in the family postponed things.

1.  The reason no service record has survived is almost certainly because it was destroyed in the Arnside Street incendiary bombing raid of September 1940 when a great majority (almost 80%) of the Army’s individual service records were consumed by flames.  A tiny amount that was singed, smoke tainted and soaked by fire hoses survived and is known by the National Archives as The Burnt Records.  See: https://warrecordsrevealed.com/2018/03/15/arnside-street-war-office-record-centre-1934-1940-plus-percy-house-schools-1919-1933/

2.  Although the lines of communication for the Army in France and Flanders (and other theatres) were indeed important the troops of the Garrison units that manned its length were considered low grade (mostly older men and those who had suffered earlier wounds that reduced their effectiveness) and their activities were largely confined to Guards and Escorts.  This was a mundane and monotonous existence of guarding bridges, communication hubs and storage dumps, day-in, day-out, punctuated by occasional trips to escort prisoners rearwards, or visitors forwards.  Such limited activity did not justify a war diary, which is frustrating for you, but in truth entirely realistic.  It was in effect the routine business of everyday soldiering.

 I wish you well with your research.

 

 

 

Edited 20 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[dbe]

Thank you for your replies and encouragement.

Firstly, my thanks to Matlock for the record of a claim for disability. According to the family, my grandfather caught malaria in Italy and suffered recurrent attacks later in life.

Do you by any chance know what the various references on the card mean (apart from his regimental number, of course)? I see that the card is dated June 1922, which could mean he returned from Italy in late 1919. Do you also know if it is possible to access medical records which would show when and where he became sick and possibly hospitalised? 

 

Also Frogsmile, thank you for the information on the loss of records, the status of LoC  soldiers and the photos. I have realised that finding information about my grandfather's service will be difficult, which is why I am trying to find any sources on other soldiers or on the movements of LoC troops in Italy and from these generate a picture of his life overseas. I assume that, given the army's sense of order, there ought to be records of where, when and how these soldiers moved. The question is where to look. Any suggestions?

Once again thank you for your input.

 

[FROGSMILE]

5 hours ago, dbe said:

Thank you for your replies and encouragement.

Firstly, my thanks to Matlock for the record of a claim for disability. According to the family, my grandfather caught malaria in Italy and suffered recurrent attacks later in life.

Do you by any chance know what the various references on the card mean (apart from his regimental number, of course)? I see that the card is dated June 1922, which could mean he returned from Italy in late 1919. Do you also know if it is possible to access medical records which would show when and where he became sick and possibly hospitalised? 

 

Also Frogsmile, thank you for the information on the loss of records, the status of LoC  soldiers and the photos. I have realised that finding information about my grandfather's service will be difficult, which is why I am trying to find any sources on other soldiers or on the movements of LoC troops in Italy and from these generate a picture of his life overseas. I assume that, given the army's sense of order, there ought to be records of where, when and how these soldiers moved. The question is where to look. Any suggestions?

Once again thank you for your input.

 

I’m sure that @Matlock1418will give you whatever information can be gleaned from pension records that have survived.  With regards to medical records, only a small proportion were kept after WW1 in order to support the official history of the medical plus support any academic research, but the vast bulk was otherwise deliberately destroyed.  You must understand that the war had cost the economy an enormous amount and there was clamour for fiscal retrenchment. Storage was expensive and that drove attitudes to what was worth keeping and what wasn’t.

As for the records of lines of communication activity at the low level you seek, charting who was guarding what and what escorts were undertaken and by whom, there isn’t very much at all outside of any audio archives recorded by the Imperial War Museum via interviews with veterans that might occasionally touch on such mundane activities, but even that’s not a guarantee.  The recordings were considered by many to have been taken too late, when the number of veterans had declined substantially, arguably leaving just those who had been younger at the time and with less experience or responsibility.  Personal accounts written by soldiers after the war tend not to include the lines of communications units.  You should also be careful to not look at military life back then, through the prism of today, with its computers to ease records of almost every eventuality and even quite low down minutiae.  Back then copying was done by carbon paper copy and kept to a minimum.  Furthermore, documents were divided into two categories, as follows:

”Papers [meaning documents], other than those required for local reference, will either be sent, with the least possible delay, from units in the field to the A.G.s office [meaning Adjutant General staff division] at the base, or destroyed.  To ensure this being done, all documents which it is necessary to keep will be marked “K” (Keep) or “R” (Record), those being marked “K” kept with the unit, those marked “R” being sent to the A.G’s office at the base [meaning the huge administrative area close to the channel ports].  The “K” file will be periodically reviewed, any paper in it that is no longer required with the unit being either destroyed or sent to the A.G’s office at the base.”

Source: Field Service Regulations part II Organization and Administration - reprinted with amendments 1914.

NB.  It is the documents that survived all that, that after the war went through ruthless periodic weeding, and many others that were no doubt destroyed by WW2 bombing.

Edited 20 September , 2022 by FROGSMILE

[Matlock1418]

3 hours ago, dbe said:

According to the family, my grandfather caught malaria in Italy and suffered recurrent attacks later in life.

Do you by any chance know what the various references on the card mean (apart from his regimental number, of course)? I see that the card is dated June 1922, which could mean he returned from Italy in late 1919. Do you also know if it is possible to access medical records which would show when and where he became sick and possibly hospitalised? 

On 18/09/2022 at 18:12, Matlock1418 said:

Image courtesy of WFA/Fold3

I think the stamped number, 141793, suggests the claim was rejected [in cases of rejection a number was more normally stamped centre-top but I suspect it was relocated in this case due to the limited space there]

I continue to think 141793 is a rejection number

11/M/394028 = Region 11 [London & SE England], Military claim, case 394028

 @ss002d6252 may be able to better advise on the Reg 181820 etc.

M

Edited 20 September , 2022 by Matlock1418