1 July 1916 description

[spike10764]

I never happen to have come across this before- an amazing account.....

[Jon6640]

Dear Glosters,

absolutely fascinated by your posting of Sgt. Bisgood's account of the first day of the Somme (and subsequent full journal posting) as I am his grandson! Col. T.H. Bisgood MM,MBE and JP died in the early 1960's after a long and successful business career. It is probable that like my other (maternal) grandfather Sgt. I. Bretherton of the Lancashire Fusiliers, who died around the same time, that respiratory problems brought on by the both of them being gassed in the trenches finally did for them in the end, like so many other veterans of the Somme. I can supply much more detail of the life of Colonel 'Tom' Bisgood (Tom is the family form and spelling, not Thomas) but would prefer to do so in a less public forum than on full scale internet. I have some photos, other memorobilia but never knew that a diary existed - fascinated to know how you came by it. I stumbled onto this web site purely by chance, just googled his name following an off the wall conversation.

James Bisgood

What a fantastic thing to happen, another Forum success!

[artyali]

What a fantastic thing to happen, another Forum success!

What makes this thread even more interesting to me is that my Gt Uncle was one of those young men who was in the 1/2 London reg royal fusiliers and was killed that very day at Gommecourt. He was with C coy, and so from the posts from Bmac, was most probably killed that afternoon. I also have his letters to his parents written from his time with the BEF in France. Maybe i should post the contents on to this site sometime soon.

Thanks for all of the info.......that find was truly amazing.

Alison

[BilBis]

Dear Glosters,

absolutely fascinated by your posting of Sgt. Bisgood's account of the first day of the Somme (and subsequent full journal posting) as I am his grandson! Col. T.H. Bisgood MM,MBE and JP died in the early 1960's after a long and successful business career. It is probable that like my other (maternal) grandfather Sgt. I. Bretherton of the Lancashire Fusiliers, who died around the same time, that respiratory problems brought on by the both of them being gassed in the trenches finally did for them in the end, like so many other veterans of the Somme. I can supply much more detail of the life of Colonel 'Tom' Bisgood (Tom is the family form and spelling, not Thomas) but would prefer to do so in a less public forum than on full scale internet. I have some photos, other memorobilia but never knew that a diary existed - fascinated to know how you came by it. I stumbled onto this web site purely by chance, just googled his name following an off the wall conversation.

James Bisgood

Hello James

Surprises just keep on turning up from Col TH. He was my grandfather's brother, my father Tom was named after him. I had no idea that he had any surviving family.

I've been looking into the family's history, any additions are most welcome.

Regards

Bill Bisgood

[egbert]

Where are all the pictures from this thread?

[artyali]

My Great Uncles Regiment........sadly he lost his life with them!

[artyali]

My Great Uncles Regiment........sadly he lost his life with them!

[DeMorgan]

Hello,

My great uncle John Baber was a Machine Gun Company officer with 169 MGC in this attack. He had belonged to the Queen's Westminster Rifle's, and later rejoined it.

I have several accounts from this attack.

Sergeant Oliver wrote the following...

1/7/16

To Capt Baber

We are occupying the OP position with the gun mounted, laid according to your orders. We have been able to observe the bomb fighting in front of the cemetery & managed to get off 11/2 belts at the boche as they came across.

You may be interested to know that my steel helmet saved me from a piece of shell & has now a hole in it as result. We passed Smart going down wounded in the arm.

From Sgt Oliver

Later my great uncle wrote on the bottom. Killed in action LEUZE WOOD Sept/16.

Sylvester Brown, O.C. No 4. Section wrote...

1/7/16

To OC 169 BMG Coy

From O.C. No 4 Section

Regret one gun smashed by shell.

Trench round both dugouts blown in

dug out & trench full

of dead & wounded

Can I have a few

RAM.C or Stretcher

bearers.

Sylvester Brown.

O.C. No 4 Section

No casualties in my sub-section

Cheero Brown

From a report written in November 1916, it is possible to place Brown's machine gun "in the parados to the right of YIDDISH STREET. The report says that the gun "was too open to employ a trench mounting, when the gun would have been easily visible as soon as mounted, therefore the elevating gear and traversing dial, combined with a disappearing mount were employed".

I am fairly familiar with Vickers guns, and there mounts, but I have never seen a disappearing mount. Does anybody have a photo of one?

Regards

Nick

[Andrew Upton]

The report says that the gun "was too open to employ a trench mounting, when the gun would have been easily visible as soon as mounted, therefore the elevating gear and traversing dial, combined with a disappearing mount were employed".

I am fairly familiar with Vickers guns, and there mounts, but I have never seen a disappearing mount. Does anybody have a photo of one?

Regards

Nick

Quoting Goldsmiths "The Grand Old Lady of No-Mans-Land" pages 465-66:

"Other Tripod Designs - The Short-Lived Vickers "Overbank" or "Disappearing" Mount

Trench Warfare from fixed positions became the norm in early 1916. The "Overbank" or "Disappearing" mount designed by Vickers soon appeared, which had some advantages but was heavier than the issue MkIV tripod and somewhat cumbersome, and thus was not widely issued and seldom seen after 1916. Only 1180 of them were made."

Will try and add some scans in a bit, captioned picture says:

"533: The Vickers "Overbank" tripod, granted patent No. 5008 on March 31st 1915. This mount made it possible to add 7 inches to vertical movement and then allow the gun to "disappear" after firing. Only 1180 were made. Q-36855 IWM."

[Andrew Upton]

And another in use, caption reads:

"70: Machine Gunners firing at a Turkish aeroplane at Hari Kupri. Note the extreme elevation of the MkII rear sight, and the milled-out right sideplate of the gun, indicating early manufacture. The tripod is fitted with the infrequently seen "overbank" cradle. Reversing the gun on the tripod was the most common form of AA mounting. Q-24651 IWM."

[Andrew Upton]

Bit more of a close up on the working parts - basically, you pull the lever down, the gun goes up, pull the lever back up, and the gun drops back down - simple, really. And it is just locked in place on the tripod using the normal mounting pins (a duplicate set for holding the gun to the "Overbank" being attached to the "Overbank" itself):

[DeMorgan]

Hello Andrew,

Thank you for the photo of a disappearing mount.

Regards

Nick

[DeMorgan]

Hello,

The following photograph shows Gommecourt village. It is one of the actual photographs used to plan the British machine gun support for the attack.

On the reverse it is annotated to say that it was taken on the 27th of June 1916 by No 8 Squadron R.F.C.

I have tried to scan the same area from a map of Gommecourt in 1:10,000 produced by the 1st Printing Co. R.E. 3rd Army. Sadly it is not dated, but it comes from a package of maps and drawings, used to prepare the angles and bearings for the machine gun barrage.

If this works, I will scan in some more in the next couple of days.

Regards

Nick.

[DeMorgan]

Hello,

The following photo and map were issued to 169 Machine Gun Company during their preparation for the Battle of the Somme, when they fired on 1st July 1916 at targets in this area.

It shows the area between Fonquevillers, which is just off the left hand edge of the photo, and Gommecourt Wood, which is the dark area running up the righthand side of the photo.

The German trench system is the highly developed system to the right of the photo, whilst the much less deeply dug system on the left is the British front line. It was from these trenches that the 46th North Midland Division attacked.

The following map shows the corresponding section of a trench map. The British mappers have left off the details of the British trenches, only showing the outer limits of the line.

This photo sadly fails to overlap with the previous one I posted of the village itself, leaving a gap of a couple of hundred yards.

Regards

Nick

[DeMorgan]

Hello,

The following photo shows the German trench lines at the "Z" to the north of Gommecourt.

At the southern extremity of the photograph you can see the very top of Gommecourt Wood.

By comparing this photo and the previous one in my post above, you will find that the photos just overlap in the bottom lefthand corner, Oakham trench appears, as it does in the top centre of the photo above.

Does anybody have any photos of these trenches from the period, or panoramas etc. ?

This photo was taken by No 8 Squadron RFC, and was issued to 169 Machine Gun Company.

Regards

Nick

[DeMorgan]

Hello,

The following photograph the 29th of June 1916 by No 8 Squadron RFC shows an area about 3/4 of a mile to the east of Gommecourt on the high ground centred on a point about 1600 yards behind the German front line. This was the area behind the objectives set for the Queens Westminster Rifles, and was therefore the area German reinforcements could be expected to arrive across.

The trench curving down from the top left hand corner is MINX, were it crosses OXUS.

At the top righthand corner the park wall of Rettemoy Farm can be seen. From it heading south comes INDRE trench. After passing INDRE MINX changes its name to MIGHT, and then MIX.

The trench leading away from the cross roads towards the south east (bottom lefthand corner) is INDUS, which leads eventually to FILLET, which is off the map to the south west just outside Gommecourt village.

Directly south and parallel of Indus is a German light rail system, which can be seen snaking away towards the north west.

A corresponding section of the map is next.

In a report written by Lieutenant Baber in November 1916, and acknowledged by his commanding officer Captain Pyper on the 18th November 1916, Baber wrote "at 5.25 pm (on the 1st July 1916) a report was received that Germans were thought to be massing near INDUS and FILLET. This was out of sight but by means of maps and charts the guns were immediately laid on that place. No order to fire was received."

"No 5. Emplacement.

During the day of the 1st. July, the gun whih should have occupied No. 1 position, was moved into position in W50. just by YANKEE STREET. It had an extensive field of fire was directed with others on INDUS/FILLET and also did good work in stopping reinforcements to a German bombing party."

Given the range of field artillery at this time, I would have expected to have seen evidence of the German gunlines in this sort of area. However they don't show up, if they were there. Does anybody know where the German artillery was that fired on the 1st of July in support of the defence?

Regards

Nick

[DeMorgan]

Hello,

I thought that I would add scans of the original notes to my earlier post.

By cuddalore at 2007-09-29

Sergeant Oliver wrote the following...

1/7/16

To Capt Baber

We are occupying the OP position with the gun mounted, laid according to your orders. We have been able to observe the bomb fighting in front of the cemetery & managed to get off 11/2 belts at the boche as they came across.

You may be interested to know that my steel helmet saved me from a piece of shell & has now a hole in it as result. We passed Smart going down wounded in the arm.

From Sgt Oliver

Later my great uncle wrote on the bottom. Killed in action LEUZE WOOD Sept/16.

I find the fact that this note is covered in mud, and obviously had a terrible trip along the trenches on the day of the battle brings home the events almost as much if not as do the actual words themselves.

Sylvester Brown, O.C. No 4. Section wrote...

1/7/16

To OC 169 BMG Coy

From O.C. No 4 Section

Regret one gun smashed by shell.

Trench round both dugouts blown in

dug out & trench full

of dead & wounded

Can I have a few

RAM.C or Stretcher

bearers.

Sylvester Brown.

O.C. No 4 Section

No casualties in my sub-section

Cheero Brown

Regards

Nick

[DeMorgan]

Hello,

The following photo shows Nameless Farm and the German trenches immediately to the east of Gommecourt. The photograph was taken by No 8 Squadron RFC on the 21st of May 1916.

The communication trenchs going from left to right are EMS, ETCH and the most regular one to the right is EPTE.

The very straight "white" line running just in front of the third line trench is a lane, and at the eastern end of this lane is Nameless Farm.

The corresponding section of the trench map follows: -

Regards

Nick

[DeMorgan]

Hello,

In order to plan the machine gun support for the attack, 169 Machine Gun Coy used the following blue print copy. Because of its size I have scanned it in two separate scans. A little bit of detail is missing from the bottom edge sadly.

From this a tracing was produced onto which my great uncle drew out the fire tasks for the machine guns in his unit.

Regards

Nick

[stevefogs]

Glosters,

What an excellent account, a very brutal and moving tribute of all who fought on that terrible day. I well believe the one hour truce held for the removal of wounded on both sides. After reading THE GERMAN ARMY AT PASSCHENDAELE ( JACK SHELDON ) he mentions also similar accounts of cease fire when the red cross were held up, and stretcher bearers from both armies removed there dead and injured. Thank you for sharing such a stunning account.

[Guest Michael Ingram]

Dear Glosters,

absolutely fascinated by your posting of Sgt. Bisgood's account of the first day of the Somme (and subsequent full journal posting) as I am his grandson! Col. T.H. Bisgood MM,MBE and JP died in the early 1960's after a long and successful business career. It is probable that like my other (maternal) grandfather Sgt. I. Bretherton of the Lancashire Fusiliers, who died around the same time, that respiratory problems brought on by the both of them being gassed in the trenches finally did for them in the end, like so many other veterans of the Somme. I can supply much more detail of the life of Colonel 'Tom' Bisgood (Tom is the family form and spelling, not Thomas) but would prefer to do so in a less public forum than on full scale internet. I have some photos, other memorobilia but never knew that a diary existed - fascinated to know how you came by it. I stumbled onto this web site purely by chance, just googled his name following an off the wall conversation.

James Bisgood

Dear James

I have no idea if this will find you or, actually, how to work things on thios site but, I am also Tom Bisgood's grandson, Michael, the son of Douglas Bisgood DFC who is mentioned in this blog thing. I have all relevent details of my father etc and if you want to make contact please do. How, I know not, but I'll check this site every now and again (if I can find it again). If anyone is interested I have the 'Old Man's german dagger he mentions in his diary and received first hand (verbal) accounts of his war years, as well as details of my father's war (log book etc).

Hope this finds you.

Michael

PS. I presume you are my Uncle Douglas' son as I have already tracked down Keith's son, Justin.

[bmac]

Does anybody have any photos of these trenches from the period, or panoramas etc. ?

Nick,

There are several more 8 Squadron photos of the area in my first book including a detailed one of the area of the village attacked by the LRB of the 169th Brigade and more around Nameless Farm and the area attacked by the London Scottish. There is a panorama of the area around the Z in Peter Barton's 'Panoramas of the Somme' book. There is also an amazing original panorama of whole of the 56th Division's front at the NA. It runs all the way from Gommecourt Park away to the right of the London Scottish's position.

The new book will have several 46th Division front aerial photos including an annotated copy of the one you show of the southern end of the Division's attack opposite Gommecourt Wood. In that photo the area shown is the one attacked by the 137th Brigade and the annotated photo shows where the wire was cut (or rather more importantly, left uncut). In this aerial photo you comment on the state of the relative trenches. On the 46th Division's front the front line trench was dug on the nights of the 23rd and 24th June and was a feeble effort, full of mud and only between 2 and 5 feet deep. The communication trenches were barely any improvement. Indeed, this trench at the southern end of the 46th Division's front was so bad that the 6th S Staffs and the right of the 6th N Staffs jumped off from the old front line rather than use the new trench. This meant the Brigade attacked from a staggered position which had an influence on the outcome of this part of the attack.

Cheers

Bill

[bmac]

The very straight "white" line running just in front of the third line trench is a lane, and at the eastern end of this lane is Nameless Farm.

The lane is the Gommecourt to Puisieux road and was a sunken lane several feet deep in those days. The area to the right of Epte trench was that attacked unsuccessfully by the Rangers while the area to the left was taken up to the third line by the Queen Victoria's and Queen's Westminster's Rifles. They used the sunken lane for cover before a bombing attack up Etch drove the defenders out and allowed other men to cross over the open. The failure of the Rangers allowed the Germans to drive a wedge between the two wings of the attack with the QWR, QVR and LRB being driven away to the left and the Rangers, 4th Londons, Kensingtons and London Scottish to the right. Further counter attacks down the communication trenches eventually forced the men either to surrender or attempt an escape across No Man's Land where many were shot down.

Nameless Farm was known as Bock Farm to the Germans (and the Sucrerie on the 46th Division's front as Pilier Farm).

[DeMorgan]

Hello Bill,

Thank you for the information on the other photos. I have several 56th Division panoramas, but not one for Gommecourt. That would be interesting to see.

In his pocket diary John Baber wrote very brief notes on his locations. It shows his unit being relieved at Gommecourt on Sunday July 2nd, and returning to the line at Fonquevillers on the 5th of July, which is presumably why these photos of the Z have survived, as he just have needed then to plan his fire control.

The QWR history say that the trenches at Fonquevillers "were in a deplorable condition, and for sheer discomfort were as bad as any the Battalion had ever been in. Parts of the fire trench were nearly three feet deep in water and mud, and in the communications trenches water stood waist deep. There was a particularly bad portion on the south side of the Fonquevilliers-La Brayelle road, where the trench had been blown in by hostile shelling, and the men holding the line had to remain standing with water up to their waists."

Only 198 men had survived the first day of the Somme from the battalion, and they had as a consequence received 268 reinforcements. Many of these were from Bantam Divisions. This meant they were too small to be recruited into normal units.

These poor men went into the front to a situation where the water reached average height men's waists. They had to be given ammunition boxes to stand on to see over the parapet.

On the 7th of July heavy rain fell, and the runners took to stripping off their trousers and puttees, and just leaving on their boots. They were in this awlful place until the 22nd of July 1916.

Regards

Nick

[bmac]

Nick,

My mother's uncle died at Gommecourt on 1st July (QVRs) and my grandfather was commissioned into the 4th Londons to replace 1st July casualties.

The trenches at Foncquevillers were truly awful. The problem for the 46th Division was that, when they inherited the front from the 48th Division, they found that the line had been held by a series of outposts (as a result of a lack of men) and the trenches in between and many of the communication trenches had been filled with barbed wire. In the very wet winter the sides had collapsed filling these trenches totally. These all had to be dug out and repaired by the 46th Division AND a new front line dug before the attack and they had neither the time nor the men to do much of a job. There are stories of COs walking up the trenches along the backs of their men and of men disappearing completely into sump holes full of water. It is certain that several wounded men drowned in the trenches there on 1st July. Men literally used to swim in the trenches.

Bill