1 July 1916 description

[Transvaal_Ranger]

Hi all,

I was most interested to find this thread - the co-incidences are quite remarkable. An earlier poster is a descendant of the OC of the 169th Bde MGC - as it turns out I have a First War trio to a Private Duncan of the 1/2 London Regiment (actually just consigned it to Gary Neate for his online auction) who was attached to the 169th Bde MGC.

Pte Duncan was ultimately discharged due to wounds that he sustained on the attack on the Gommecourt Salient on the 1st of July - gunshot wounds to the forehead and thigh. I would be most curious to know whether he is mentioned in any of the diaries?

Regards,

Neil

[linden]

Is there any chance of identifying the German Dr . ?

[absimj]

I've been researching the life of Captain Handyside who died at Gommecourt leading a company of 2nd Londons, and find the diary of Sergeant Bisgood fascinating.

BUT who was Bisgood?

 

Sergeant Bisgood MM was invalided out in mid-1918 with a Silver War Badge. I can't find a death record for him. But, how could he become a Lieutenant Colonel in charge of a Home Guard Battalion in 1940?

There appear to be Thornton Henry Bisgood born 1872 AND Harold Tom Bisgood (sometimes known as Tom Harold) born in 1885. Acting Lieutenant Colonel Harold Tom Bisgood was awarded the MBE in 1946 and died in 1962. 

 

One of them became a County Councillor and JP in Middlesex. 

Which is which?

 

AND how did the diary etc. come into the possession of 'Glosters'?

[clk]

Hi absimj,

 

Welcome to the forum.

 

Linking his service number shown on his MM index card to the medal rolls,  Sergeant Bisgood was Tom Harold Bisgood.

 

Image sourced from Findmypast

 

Allowing for a slight clerical error the P/195755/1 number written on the card (where the 'P/' prefix donates a post WW1 officer) seems to be very close to the number associated with some later London Gazette hits.

 

 

Image from a Google search

 

In an index of files held by the MoD the 195155 number would seem to make him the man highlighted below.

 

It's interesting to note the record for T H Bisgood with the same DoB - possibly the same man?

 

Given the DoB, in the 1939 Register he would appear to be living in the Municipal Borough of Heston and Isleworth

Images sourced from Ancestry.co.uk

 

Regards

Chris

 

Edit:

 

Whilst he was an acting Lieutenant Colonel, it looks his substantive rank was 2/Lt

Image sourced from the London Gazette

 

He appears to have died in 1962.

Image sourced from Ancestry.co.uk

Edited 16 July , 2019 by clk

[Guest]

Hi All i am looking in to Lt Col T H  Bisgood MM MBE after WW1 as he was part of the City of London Army Cadets Force, And had a unit in Hounslow part of the 1st Cadet Bn Royal Fusiliers, as i am party of the City of London and North East Sector ACF. With the comment i have added a pdf cartoon of Maj T Bisgood, Maj Max Karo MBE, Col Sir Philip Carlebach Kt, C.B.E., C.M.G., T.D., D.L I have added the pdf in the hope other find it of interest.   Sorry of of the comment about his rank i hope i can clear up as a cadet officer he could only hold the substantive rank of 2Lt but can have a cadet rank higher.

BL_0001852_19310429_014_0011.pdf

Edited 6 August , 2020 by Guest
clear up a point

[absimj]

I think that I'm a little clearer now.

 

Serjeant Bisgood whose memoirs have been published (online at least) was Harold Thomas Bisgood (1884 – 1962), sometimes known as Thomas Harold Bisgood) who joined the 2 Battalion, London Regiment in November 1914 and went to France with it in October 1915. He was awarded the Military Medal in 1916. He was wounded and sent home for treatment in August 1917, but was invalided out in May 1918 and awarded the Silver War Badge. At the end of the War he was awarded the 1915 Star and the usual War and Victory Medals.

 

He seems to be frequently confused with Thornton Hy Bisgood, (born 1872) was a businessman, possibly a solicitor. He founded 3rd Cadet Battalion, The Royal Fusiliers (Hounslow’s Own) in 1929. He was Chairman of a printing company, Wellington Printers, in Hounslow which went into liquidation in 1938. At some point, he became a member of Middlesex County Council and, in 1940, was Chairman of its Works committee and Civil Defence Committee. Early in the Second World War, he was appointed Commanding Officer of 2^nd Battalion, ‘T’ Zone, Middlesex Home Guard and promoted to Acting Lieutenant-Colonel. He seems to have been the Acting Lieutenant-Colonel 'Harold Tom Bisgood', M.M., was awarded the M.B.E. in June 1946.Thornton was still an active JP in 1954.

 

Thornton seems to be the person who, in March 1942, was given an emergency Commission as a 2nd Lieutenant, which he relinquished in September 1949, ‘on ceasing to be employed’, and was granted the honorary rank of Major. In the following month he was Commissioned again as a 2nd Lieutenant on the Special List of the Territorial Army Reserve for service with the Army Cadet Force. In April 1950, he was promoted to Lieutenant, with seniority from 1942, and retired in April 1951, having exceeded the age limit, and was granted the honorary rank of Colonel. Probate records suggest that he had a son who was killed in the RAF during WW2.

 

It wouldn't be the first time that two men's military records have been mixed up. A few weeks ago, I had to spend a whole day putting together Gazette entries and entries in the Army Lists to sort out who did what and when for two officers, contemporaries, who had the same forename and surname and whose careers progressed almost in tandem. 

 

I cannot find any evidence of Thornton having served in the Army before 1929. Short of finding living relatives of one or both of these men, I don't think any of this can be confirmed.

Edited 7 August , 2020 by absimj
Typos

[Guest]

Thank you some much for the information you have provided, i am trying to log all the members of the Staff of the City of London Cadets. think part of the confusion is the Col Sir Philip Carlebach was mobilised   on the 2/8/14 to command 2/2nd City of London Royal Fusiliers and he became the Commandant of the City of London cadets. so both Bisgood could of know Col Sir Philip

 

I have also found an obituary for Col T. H. Bisgood MM MBE in the Cadet Journal 1962   are you saying this is Thornton Hy Bisgood as they both seem to of died in 1962, am sorry still a little confused but thank you for replying to me 

Sorry though my last post would be smaller

[absimj]

There is a birth Record for Thornton Henry Bisgood in 1872, but I cannot find a death record for him.

 

The birth record for Harold Thomas Bisgood is in 1884.  The death record for Harold Thomas in 1962 also indicates that he was born in 1884. The regimental record for his 1915 Star indicates his age and thus confirms his birth in 1884. So does his army hospital record.

 

1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Battalions of the London Regiment originally formed 1st London Brigade, also known as the Royal Fusiliers. They were part of the Territorial force.

 

HT served in 1/2nd (City of London) Battalion, London Regiment. This was part of the wartime expansion of 1st Battalion by the addition of second, third and forth line units

 

The London Regiment was reformed in the Territorial Army in the 1920s and 1st battalion of the London Regiment became 1st (City of London) Battalion, Royal Fusiliers. 

 

It is interesting that he seems to be referred to in public documents as T.H. Bisgood, which could simply be a reversal of his forenames. 

 

I suppose that it is not impossible that Harold renamed himself as Thornton, but I don't know how that could be proven.

 

The Royal Fusiliers Museum (at the Tower of London?) might have some documents that throw more light on this. If you live in or near London (I don't), you could make enquiries there.

 

The public service of TH  in Middlesex is well documented. The Archives of Middlesex County Council (in the London Metropolitan Archives?) and the archives of a local newspaper for Hounslow (if there was one) might shed light on him., for example his full name.

 

I have not found a marriage record for ether of them.

 

When Thornton's adopted son , Douglas Leonard Bisgood, was killed in a flying accident in 1947, he left a will which could indicate what he believed his adoptive father's name to be at the time. There should also be a birth certificate for the on which would have the full name by which the father was known when he registered it.

 

If you do find out more, I (and probably others) would be interested to hear as his was one of the few substantial first hand accounts of the first day of the Somme. Perhaps you could post news on this page.

 

There are also some posts on earlier pages of this blog which appear to be from his surviving relatives.