1 July 1916 description

[marina]

------------------------

I hope his name is somewhere in these papers, I am really getting to like him!

Steve

Me too - he's quite a personality, isn't he? I Liked the Lord Robert's joke! VERY DRYAnd the hair oil and swank.

The hospital sounds DIRE.

Marina

[marina]

Horrible thought - we don;t know if he survived, do we, if we don;t know who he is!

Marina

[marina]

Horrible thought - we don;t know if he survived, do we, if we don;t know who he is!

Marina

[Glosters]

I now know who the writer was, he survived the war and he won the Military Medal. At the current point in the diary he is a Sergeant (Nov. 1916). I will give you his name and a picture of him once I have scanned the photo.

Steve

p.s.

The entry for 30th June 1916 -

"Have taken over Y Sector trenches directly opposite Gommecourt Wood. All the while, our artillery is at it hammer and tongs and the din is terrible; will it never cease? Tonight the bombardment is intense as the attack all along the line comes off tomorrow. To be quite honest we expect a "walk-over" as our guns have not been replied to, and barely a German has been seen. Rain is now falling heavily making the trenches very uncomfortable."

[ianw]

Remarkable diary. How strange that we now know the full circumstances of Gunner Allen's demise and are the first to discover it for 90 years. Unlikely that the diary writer knew the poor fellow's name.

Obviously a sensitive and intelligent man and one would not be surprised if he rose higher in rank. However, if he remained a Sergeant, I am sure his men would have appreciated him. Equally unsurprising that he won an M.M .

[marina]

Great work, Glosters. Hardly surprising he won the MM - he seems so coll and controlled. G;ad to hear he made it!

Marina

[bmac]

Anybody knows the exact location of mentioned 167 Brigade? I don't find them in my accounts near 168 or 169 Brigades

The 167th Brigade dug this trench over three days towards the end of May. They were in reserve on 1st July with some battalions just behind the lines at Hebuterne. The two Middlesex battalions (1/7th and 1/8th) suffered particularly badly in the days before the attack when they occupied the front lines. Most of the casualties were from sickness and exhaustion as the weather was awful.

[Glosters]

"Spent the night shifting to another position more to the right, and thought we were to be relieved, but no such luck as we found ourselves in the front trench opposite to Cherisy, a brute of a place. About 12 midnight I was sent for by the Captain and told that we were to take Cherisy in the early hours of the morning, this was bad news and I was astounded and explained to the Captain that it was impossible as another village Guimappe by name which lay to the rear and left, had not yet been taken, he agreed but said "orders are orders." We moved over the top at once and advanced with spades under cover of darkness a matter of 200 yards and dug ourselves in holes all that day waiting for the word "Go" and hoping it would never come. Those of us who knew the ropes also knew that the word "Go" would be the finish for the lot of us. 24 solid hours we were crouched up in these holes waiting for the fatal word which for us never came owing to the 14th Division not advancing. We were relieved and the 2 other Battns of our Brigade were put in, while we were put 500 yards back in a shallow ditch, the feeling of relief was beyond description; we also felt very sorry for our pals the QVRs and QRWs who had the job.

14 April 1917 - 6.30 am zero time. QVR and QWR advanced in several waves for Cherisy an exceptionally, in fact, ridiculously long way off, the expected happened, as just as these fellows mounted the parapet and went over, down they went. Fritz simply sat on his parapet and caught them in the rear with MG fire, it was nothing less than a massacre. We waited expecting at every moment to be called on to reinforce, but evidently the Brigadier or whoever planned the show, discovered that 2 battns wiped out in one morning would be enough. That night we carried in dead and wounded of our own brigade by the hundred, cursing the man who was criminal enough to send them over to certain death."

And the writer of the diary -

3254 Sergeant T.H. Bisgood, 2nd Battalion, London Regiment (Royal Fusiliers)

This photograph, from his 'scrap book' is marked 'Sgt. T.H. Bisgood with 2 German stick grenades'

[ianw]

Difficult to adopt the proper revisionist attitude to the "Lions led by Donkeys" debate when a voice from the past quietly tells it like it was. It must have been gut wrenching to watch that attack whilst at the same time thanking the fates that decided that you would be a spectator that day - and then be forced to see sights that no man should ever see , when the dead and wounded - your comrades -were brought in.

My God what a terrible battle Arras was - but of course they were all terrible.

Thanks for bringing us this, Glosters. And thank you Sgt Bisgood for writing that brought tears to my eyes 90 years on.

[AGWR]

Thanks for taking the time to post this stuff. It's absolutely fascinating.

Regards

AGWR

[spike10764]

Thanks Glosters,

And thanks to the men who wrote and fought.

[egbert]

Great history lesson!

I have read again the equivalent German account - most of Bisgoods accounts can be traced in the "official" history >Reichsarchiv, Schlachten des Weltkrieges, Somme-Nord, 1.Teil<.

It seems to be that the German and British time zones were 1hr out of sequence.

I do really wonder why there is no word from local armistice in German accounts, although they buried about 1400 Brits alone in discussed area.

On demand I can scan/post the 8 or so pages with German accounts in Gothic German, but will not translate them because I do not speak/write English

The following scan shows the route of attack of 168/169 Brig. up to third line Gommecourt redoubt.

[egbert]

Gommecourt 1.7.1916

[Stephen Nulty]

Glosters

Possibly Thornton Henry Bisgood, borth registered in Q1 1872 at St Pancras.

1881 census shows him at 20 Circus Road, St Pancaras, the son of Thomas and Alice Bisgood.

Can't find him in any other census, though.

SN

[bmac]

On demand I can scan/post the 8 or so pages with German accounts in Gothic German, but will not translate them because I do not speak/write English

Somewhere I have a translation of these pages. I will try to dig them out.

[bmac]

The maps from Somme-Nord are somewhat inaccurate, i.e the LRB did not reach the locations indicated and did not sweep around to the right. Rather the QVR and QWR moved left.

Also, very few men of the 1/2nd Londons made it into the German trenches. A few runners perhaps. However, the efforts made by the 2nd Londons to assist their colleagues were nothing short of heroic. As an example of the incredible efforts made by the 1/2nd Londons to get across to assist their colleagues it should be noted that ten officers and 179 other ranks were either killed or later died from wounds received on 1st July 1916. This was more than all other battalions from the 56th Division except for the London Rifle Brigade (8 officers and 281 other ranks), the Queen Victoria Rifles (10 officers and 219 other ranks) and the London Scottish (8 officers and 218 other ranks). In other words, they lost more men killed than two of the battalions that had attacked the German trenches in the initial attack (i.e. Queen's Westminsters and The Rangers).

The vast majority of these men were killed and wounded within 30 yards of the British trenches. Machine guns in Gommecourt Park caught them in enfilade and mowed them down.

[AndyHollinger]

Thanks for posting this ...

[egbert]

The maps from Somme-Nord are somewhat inaccurate, i.e the LRB did not reach the locations indicated and did not sweep around to the right. Rather the QVR and QWR moved left.

Also, very few men of the 1/2nd Londons made it into the German trenches. A few runners perhaps. However, the efforts made by the 2nd Londons to assist their colleagues were nothing short of heroic. As an example of the incredible efforts made by the 1/2nd Londons to get across to assist their colleagues it should be noted that ten officers and 179 other ranks were either killed or later died from wounds received on 1st July 1916. This was more than all other battalions from the 56th Division except for the London Rifle Brigade (8 officers and 281 other ranks), the Queen Victoria Rifles (10 officers and 219 other ranks) and the London Scottish (8 officers and 218 other ranks). In other words, they lost more men killed than two of the battalions that had attacked the German trenches in the initial attack (i.e. Queen's Westminsters and The Rangers).

The vast majority of these men were killed and wounded within 30 yards of the British trenches. Machine guns in Gommecourt Park caught them in enfilade and mowed them down.

Bill,

I transfered all avail information from Bisgood and German accounts - which match to my understanding (to include the official GE Gommecourt plan, also Bisgoods' description of situation in Young/Yiddish and Yellow trench after the attack=they were directly opposite to 8/170) - and inserted them into aerial. The sources clearly state that they turned right at 3rd line and also passed the point where Garde Stellung merges into 3rd line (Hellmut Graben). It says at right wing of 8./170 all dugouts were smashed/blocked and the men could not get out and subsequently were overrun; this was one of the two mainpoints of entry into the German trench system. Obviously we have a mismatch of , yes of what: accounts, geography?

[bmac]

According to all of the information I have (which is considerable, I have 250 pages written of an account of the attack by the 56th Division ), the London Rifle Brigade attacked an area comprising the left of 6/170, the front of 8/170 and the right of 2/170. They barely penetrated Gommecourt Park. The Somme Nord map shows the park finishing at Hauser trench. In fact it runs into the are where the trenches turn NE at right angles and then runs along side the road which cuts Hauser trench.

The point of the right angle was called Point 94 by the British (a map reference) and the LRB fought along the NE running trench (Fir on British maps) up to a point where the first reserve line cuts Hauser and runs SE. Just to the west of Sud Trench there is a rectangle of trenches. The eastern part of this rectangle formed a collection of short trenches called The Maze by the British. On the photo it is about the point where the top arrow bends to the right. The LRB occupied this area and a trench running (on the photo) down to a small area with some trees right on the bottom edge of the photo. This area is Gommecourt cemetery. This trench was occupied by the part of D Company, LRB led be 2nd Lt Rex Petley. This is as far as the LRB went.

To their right, the Queen's Westminster Rifles pushed through the initial attack by the Queen Victoria Rifles and, once they had crossed the Gommecourt-Bucquoy road, set up blocks at the junction of Becker Graben and Hellmut Graben. Elements, with a few QVRs attached, then moved up Hellmut Graben. Some made contact with the LRB near the cemetery and some moved up Lehman Graben towards the area known as The Quadrilateral by the British. The small party that made this objective, reputedly led by 2nd Lt Arthur of the 1/5th Cheshires (the divisional pioneers), were soon bombed out by men of RIR 55. Counter-attacks down Lehman Graben and the Garde Stellung split the LRB and the QWRs.

As to the 1/2nd London, they were the reserve battalion of the 169th Brigade. One of their tasks was to have been to dig a trench across No Man's Land joining Point 94 with the British front line. They were to do this during the attack. Heavy machine gun fire soon put paid to this operation. At about mid-day six men did volunteer as runners to get across to the LRB and QWR to find out what was happening. Four disappeared without reaching the German trenches. Two others, Corporal Werner and Lance Corporal Boyce, reached the trenches and set off to find the COs of the various battalions. Werner was never seen again. Boyce met up with some QVRs, discovered they were retreating and, amazingly, found his way back across No Man's Land to report to Brigadier General Coke.

At 1.30, the 1/2nd Londons were ordered to move forward. D Company was to go over with bombs. They were to take them to a point at the suppsoed junction between the LRB and QVR attacks from where they could be distributed to all three attacking battalions in the adjacent trenches. C Company was to move left in support of the L.R.B.. A Company was to advance on the right of the Brigade front. They were to support the Q.V.R. and the Q.W.R..

By 2.30, the men were ready in the front line trenches. C Company, on the left went first. They clambered out of their trenches, led by Capt. Percy Handyside. They were immediately assailed by heavy machine gun fire from both the Park and Nameless (Bock) Farm. A few moments later, the redoubled efforts of the German artillery, plunged into their ranks. Capt. Handyside was hit within fifteen yards of the parapet. Undaunted, he crawled forward, encouraging his men to get on until a nearby shell burst wounded him mortally. He died the following day. His men did their best to live up to their Captain's example. About fifty survivors of the attack crawled back into the British lines after dark. No one got over.

At 3 PM, Captain James Garland took A Company over the top in yet another forlorn attack. Within a few yards, a rifle bullet killed Garland. Every officer and practically every NCO was either killed or wounded as they tried desperately to go to the aid of their comrades. Plans to commit the other two companies were later abandoned.

The sacrifice of the men of these two companies, who tried to walk across a ruined No Man's Land into intense machine gun and artillery fire laden with bombs for their colleagues, is humbling.

[egbert]

Alright Bill,

Could we then agree on this areal/map.

[bmac]

Absolutely!

[Glosters]

A new dimension to the story maybe? I have found a reference online to a Lieutenant-Colonel T. Bisgood, MBE, MM.

Too much of a coincidence? Surely this must be our man. The diary ends in May 1917 with no obvious reason. Was he wounded? Was he sent to the UK for officer training? More research needed.

Steve

[ianw]

Fantastic news, Steve, But then we all knew by now that he was a great guy ! What authority that MM ribbon must have given him with the men he commanded.

M.M was gazetted December 1916 (for his Somme activities ?).

It seems he went on to become a J.P , be awarded the M.B.E and may have lived near Middleton on Sea Sussex.

He lost his adopted son Squadron Leader Douglas Bisgood D.F.C 202 Squadron who was killed on 18.4.47 aged only 27 - 2 mths after being promoted . A hero who raised a hero. What a story. His son was formerly Douglas Tomley.

(CWGC says 202 squadron but not so sure as he as not listed on a list of 202 commanders)

Was the RAF in Israel in 1947 ? Can any of our RAF experts come up with his DFC citation and details of how he died ?

[marina]

That's amazing! Are we sure it's him? There can't be thta many T. Bisgoods around. What a find!

Marina

[Chris Boonzaier]

This may be of intrest to some. The Iron Cross award doc of the senior NCO who took over command of the 2nd company of the I.R.170 after the Company commander was wounded in the initial attack.