RN Sennet (straw) hats

[All Together Now]

@RNCVR

As requested, here is the photo you asked me to post from the other topic. Don't have any details on the photo, but suspect it may possibly have been in Malta given it has R Ellis on it. 

 

 

[RNCVR]

Thanks for posting this very nice group photo with ratings wearing sennet hats.

 

Agree, Ellis of Malta the photograper.  I have many of his late Victorian Ironclad ship photos taken in Grand Harbour, Malta, the "golden age" of Ironclads.

 

Unfortunately none of their cap ribbons are visile to tell us which ship, but I do see rate badges of Stoker 2nd class, PO Mechanician, Seaman Gunner & Torpedoman, along with a few GCB's.

 

I would estimate this photo taken prewar, circa 1906-10, the Mechanician rate badge being introduced in 1906.

Their Officer appears to be a Military branch Lieut.

 

Best wishes,

Bryan

 

[RNCVR]

Ok it just hit me, its the ship's cricket team! I wondered about the mixed ratings. Usually in a posed group photo its the Gunnery or Torpedo dept, or Ship's Stokers or Signalmen, Domestics,  or some other group of like ratings.

 

Note the two bats being held by the two seated ratings in front.

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

Superb photo, thank you for posting it.

 

And Bryan thank you for the explanation.  It really was the golden age and it’s fantastic to see these evocative images.

[RNCVR]

The centre seated 2nd class Stoker is holdng the ball. Have to enlarge the image a bit to make it out.

 

I have another group photo of ratings wearing sennets, possibly also taken in Malta, will post tomorrow.

 

Best... Bryan

 

PS - everytime I view one of these pre war images I always wonder - how many of them survived the coming conflagration?

[4thGordons]

Late to this but I have one pic showing similar hats being worn:

Landing Party from HMS Prometheus

[RNCVR]

Super photo! Thanks for posting.  Shows the Naval Brigade in 'ashore operations', very common in the later Victorian era, the RN participated in more ashore operations\campaigns than in sea actions during the lead up to 1WW.

 

Can you actually read Prometheus on the cap ribbon of the rating leaning out of the tent & his mate standing to his right ?

 

Prometheus a 3rd class Cruiser of 1898.  but not in South African war of 1899-1902.

[RNCVR]

Another group photo of ratings wearing sennet hats. In a hot climate (possibly Malta) as ship has awning rigged in this photo.

Judging by the size of the gun barrel possibly an Ironclad. Cap ribbons not visible so unable to determine which ship. 

 

PO1 on right seated is a Captain of Gun

 

 

PO1 on left standing, same rate. PO1 seated in front of him a Leading Torpedoman.

Edited 1 July , 2020 by RNCVR

[Muerrisch]

I do like to see the sennets.

However, on the list of the seven most terrifying sights in the world was a sailor with a rifle!

Also, an army officer with map and compass, whose men followed out of a sense of curiosity.

There must be an RFC or RAF equivalent to complete the armed services set, but I don't know it.

[4thGordons]

1 hour ago, RNCVR said:

Can you actually read Prometheus on the cap ribbon of the rating leaning out of the tent & his mate standing to his right ?

 

Prometheus a 3rd class Cruiser of 1898.  but not in South African war of 1899-1902.

 

Yes - clear on the original just not on this low res scan.

Chris

35 minutes ago, Muerrisch said:

However, on the list of the seven most terrifying sights in the world was a sailor with a rifle!

 

It's OK - to judge by their bandoliers they weren't given any ammunition!

Chris

[FROGSMILE]

Naval Landing parties have a historical reputation of always performing well in support of the Army and land operations.  In hand-to-hand fighting they were formidable, but also tenacious in defending their disembarked guns using rifles, bayonets, cutlasses and even knuckle dusters!  The relationship with the Army was close, not least because of the times they both landed and picked up army units in extreme circumstances, often rescuing the soldiers from certain ruin.  

Edited 1 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[RNCVR]

Captain Arthur Knyvett Wilson RN, Captain of HMS Hecla,  won the VC at El Teb using his sword defending the square, in the process his sword snapped & he then used his fists!

 

A Gatling gun manned by ratings was a formidable weapon!

 

Thanks mates, pleased you are enjoying this topic!

Bryan

 

 

[FROGSMILE]

44 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

Captain Arthur Knyvett Wilson RN, Captain of HMS Hecla,  won the VC at El Teb using his sword defending the square, in the process his sword snapped & he then used his fists!

 

A Gatling gun manned by ratings was a formidable weapon!

 

Thanks mates, pleased you are enjoying this topic!

Bryan

 

 

Indeed!  And ratings with rifles had usually received refresher training from embarked Royal Marines before participating in landing parties, usually practising musketry by shooting at targets on towed arrays.

Edited 1 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[horatio2]

7 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

shooting at targets on towed arrays.

and also ashore. The Malta Dog Shoot being one famous example.

[FROGSMILE]

5 minutes ago, horatio2 said:

and also ashore. The Malta Dog Shoot being one famous example.

I can imagine what that was, just from its description!

[All Together Now]

On 30/06/2020 at 23:53, RNCVR said:

Thanks for posting this very nice group photo with ratings wearing sennet hats.

 

Agree, Ellis of Malta the photograper.  I have many of his late Victorian Ironclad ship photos taken in Grand Harbour, Malta, the "golden age" of Ironclads.

 

Unfortunately none of their cap ribbons are visile to tell us which ship, but I do see rate badges of Stoker 2nd class, PO Mechanician, Seaman Gunner & Torpedoman, along with a few GCB's.

 

I would estimate this photo taken prewar, circa 1906-10, the Mechanician rate badge being introduced in 1906.

Their Officer appears to be a Military branch Lieut.

 

Best wishes,

Bryan

 

 

Thanks Bryan, some interesting comments there. Was wondering if you may be able to tell me more from that photo. On the photo of the War Badges I have of my great grandfather, it says Sto which I assume is Stoker. I have only just noticed it says 1 after that so maybe that means 1st class with you mentioning 2nd class above.

 

Are you able to pick out the Stokers on that photo as that may help me work out which one might be him. I am not actually sure which he is on that photo. If it's more appropriate to reply on that other topic (Help with Navy Record), then please do. 

 

 

[RNCVR]

Sto is abbreviation for Stoker,

W.H. Jones was Stoker II from time of entry on 24 June 1903 to 30 June 1906, he was advanced to Sto1- Stoker 1 (1st class) on 1 July 1906.   

 

The only Stoker rate badge visible on the various ratings in the group photo is the rating seated in the centre, he is wearing the rate badge of a Stoker II (propeller)on his right sleeve, & on his left sleeve a GCB (Good Conduct Badge) indicating a minimum of 3 yrs service.  He was awarded that GCB on 24 Jun 1906.

It might be Jones, but then it may not be, the time frame is quite tight here as he was advanced to Sto1 a week later - 1 July '06.

When he was advanced to Sto1 he would have had a star added to his rate (propeller) badge.

 

What would really assist us here is to know what ship this group is on but unable to make out any of their cap ribbons!

Your guess is as good as mine!

 

Best.....Bryan

[RNCVR]

PS -  it appears to me that you have the incorrect ribbon on his 1914-15 star.

 

the other medal is the RFR (Royal Fleet Reserve)LS medal.  It bears a ribbon similar to the RNLS medal. 

 

He joined the Devonport RFR on 6 Aug 1919. 

 

I can show you the correct ribbons should you wish.

[RNCVR]

Greg, I have sent you via PM photos of the medal ribbons Wm Jones would have been entitled to.

 

Best.....Bryan

[FROGSMILE]

Barbers shop HMS Leviathan.  Notice bare feet of those seated on deck.

  

HMS Leviathan was one of four Drake-class armoured cruisers built for the Royal Navy around 1900. She was assigned to the China Station upon completion and then served in the Mediterranean Fleet in 1905–06. She was assigned to the 7th Cruiser Squadron in 1907 before she was briefly reduced to reserve. Leviathan was recommissioned in 1909 for service with the 4th Cruiser Squadron before she was placed in reserve in 1913.

Recommissioned in mid-1914, she was assigned to the 6th Cruiser Squadron of the Grand Fleet at the beginning of World War I. She spent most of the rest of the year searching for German commerce raiders and escorting convoys before she became flagship of the 1st Cruiser Squadron. In early 1915, she was reassigned to the 6th Cruiser Squadron before she became flagship of the North America and West Indies Station in March.

 

 

Edited 5 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[Dragoon]

5 minutes ago, FROGSMILE said:

Barbers shop HMS Leviathan.  Notice bare feet of those seated on deck.

 

 

I like this, do they all have a go at the "customers" hair? Ha ha.

2nd from left and chap behind "customer", are they wearing some sort of specs?

This is good thread, I do like the photos!

Thanks all

Chris

[RNCVR]

Interesting photo Froggie, never seen one with a Barber actually cutting hair.  Barber was a legitimate rating ( I had a VR LS to a Barber yrs ago, its a very rare rate to be seen on any kind of Victorian medal) in the Victorian Navy but had disappeared from the pay list around turn of C.

No, I dont know why,  it may have been one of the Fisher cuts when he was appointed first Sea Lord in Oct 1904. I will start a Topic shorty on Admiral Fisher as the 100th Anniversary of his death is approaching. I have admired & read about him & his up and downs' for many many yrs.

 

But however, I digress -- any sailor or marine who had some talent with scissors & was somewhat brave with his supposed talent tried to make extra money on the side by cutting hair, usually during make & mend  - Thursday afternoons in the RN.

I suspect that is the case here.

 

The two ratings supposedly wearing glasses - I dont think they are wearing glasses, I think its just something to do with photography of the day.

The rating standing centre with the clasp knife hanging from his belt is same. 

 

Another interesting feature about this RPPC is that they are wearing the long sleeve singlets - aka gunshirts. Not normally seen in photos.

Its a kind of working rig dress, instead of wearing the duck canvas tunics. I expect Leviathan was on a tropic or warmer station at the time.

 

Bare feet - very normal in Victorian & Edwardian times up to the Great War & likely also during the war.  Sailor's soles became very hard & running around rigging & decks(above & below) barefoot was quite common, its a throwback to the Age of Sail when only Warrants & Commissioned Officers wore shoes (NOT boots!).  I have several Victorian photos with bare footed sailors.

However, you never never see them going about their duties shirtless, at least I have never seen a RPPC or photo of shirtless sailors that I can recall, it likely may have happened in the tropics, but if so photos of shirtless ratings are quite rare.

Going ashore they had to be wearing boots or shoes, & shoes were dependant on how much their Captain was tolerant with the regs of the day.

 

Thanks for posting!

Bryan.

[RNCVR]

I think the standing smoking sailor on the right, & the 2 ratings in the same row on right, the haircutter & mate on his left, may be wearing what was known at the time as a "Cholera belt". Altho I have never seen one "in the flesh" so to speak, I have read a lot about them. Their shape & size varied.

These were quite popular in the Victorian times, & popular with sailors on tropical stations where this disease was quite common.  It was believed wearing these belts would keep the wearer from becoming infected with Cholera, which as many readers will know was a virtual death sentence in those times.

I dont wish to digress & get off topic, so just mention this in passing.

 

From the site : "The Straight Dope" ---

The cholera belt was an article of clothing commonly worn as a preventative measure by British soldiers serving in India, where cholera was endemic. Basically a waistband or cummerbund made of flannel or silk, the belt was supposed to keep away the cold and damp, the theory being that a chilled abdomen would lead to cholera, dysentery, diarrhea, and other gastrointestinal ailments. Doctors realized fairly early on that cholera had little to do with cold and damp and was in fact caused by fecal bacteria in drinking water. But military inertia being what it was, use of the belt persisted until after World War II.

 

Best to all!

Bryan

 

PS - to continue on from my Sennet Hats topic as soon as I have some time I am going to start a topic on RN Naval Officers Dress hats.

Edited 5 July , 2020 by RNCVR
.

[FROGSMILE]

32 minutes ago, RNCVR said:

Interesting photo Froggie, never seen one with a Barber actually cutting hair.  Barber was a legitimate rating ( I had a VR LS to a Barber yrs ago, its a very rare rate to be seen on any kind of Victorian medal) in the Victorian Navy but had disappeared from the pay list around turn of C.

No, I dont know why,  it may have been one of the Fisher cuts when he was appointed first Sea Lord in Oct 1904. I will start a Topic shorty on Admiral Fisher as the 100th Anniversary of his death is approaching. I have admired & read about him & his up and downs' for many many yrs.

 

But however, I digress -- any sailor or marine who had some talent with scissors & was somewhat brave with his supposed talent tried to make extra money on the side by cutting hair, usually during make & mend  - Thursday afternoons in the RN.

I suspect that is the case here.

 

The two ratings supposedly wearing glasses - I dont think they are wearing glasses, I think its just something to do with photography of the day.

The rating standing centre with the clasp knife hanging from his belt is same. 

 

Another interesting feature about this RPPC is that they are wearing the long sleeve singlets - aka gunshirts. Not normally seen in photos.

Its a kind of working rig dress, instead of wearing the duck canvas tunics. I expect Leviathan was on a tropic or warmer station at the time.

 

Bare feet - very normal in Victorian & Edwardian times up to the Great War & likely also during the war.  Sailor's soles became very hard & running around rigging & decks(above & below) barefoot was quite common, its a throwback to the Age of Sail when only Warrants & Commissioned Officers wore shoes (NOT boots!).  I have several Victorian photos with bare footed sailors.

However, you never never see them going about their duties shirtless, at least I have never seen a RPPC or photo of shirtless sailors that I can recall, it likely may have happened in the tropics, but if so photos of shirtless ratings are quite rare.

Going ashore they had to be wearing boots or shoes, & shoes were dependant on how much their Captain was tolerant with the regs of the day.

 

Thanks for posting!

Bryan.

Going by the Leviathan’s commissioning details above I should think that she was on the China Station at the time of the photo, as it was clearly long before she went to the West Indies and North America station during the war.

 

 I think that the rating standing by the upright running up from the sign chalked Barbers is larking around with the finger ring from a pair of hair cutting scissors clasped in his eye socket like a monocle.

Edited 5 July , 2020 by FROGSMILE

[RNCVR]

The China station in the south (around the Hong Kong\Singapore areas) could get quite hot & humid during summer - I was there many many yrs ago!

I do like the photo!

 

Best...Bryan