Canadian Highland Battalions: Badges, Insignia, Dress

[gordon92]

2 hours ago, Rich Moncrief said:

A few more notes on the 42nd.

 

Images of the 42nd early in their service show them wearing the khaki serge glengarry's in Jock's post above. War diary entries also note Balmoral bonnets which are more conservative in cut than glengarry's though also of khaki serge material. Images of Canadian Highlanders in the late '15 period show these being worn also, again not to be confused with the Tam 'O Shanter. Tam's come into use later and are amply documented in images and existing uniform groupings. Initially the badges were of various finishes, I have seen brass, chocolate and bronzing of sorts on quite a few badges associated with 42nd battalion groupings or as is. Of course the red hackle is bestowed upon them in 1917 for wear in the Tam 'O Shanter.

 

Early in its career the original issue of kilts was called "Cantlie Tartan", these seem to be some sort of khaki serge kilt and images on the 42nd on parade in London suggest it is a very plain kilt, but I do not believe these are the same as the British issued khaki serge kilts made up as a simplified version and generally accepted as not being worn by anyone outside of the U.K. Later uniform groupings show the regular Government sett. Royal Stewart also seems to have been worn by the pipers; while there is a notation in the war diary that this was not sanctioned (by what level authority it does not say) a close examination of the image of the Pipe Band taken in or around Arras in September 1918 suggests the pattern being worn by pipers is not government sett. (It looks Royal Stewarty to my eyes anyway.) 

 

What is also interesting as found corroborated at various places in the battalion, 3rd Division Ordnance and Canadian Corp Ordnance diaries is that all of the Canadian Highland battalions sent their kilts down to Paris in early November of each year (15-16, 16-17 and 17-18) and had them returned the following May; that is, 6 months of the year they were in trousers. During the fall of 1918 it is noted they are moving too fast to bother with this.

 

I will get some images posted early next week of collar dog variants and officers collars.

Rich, thank you for these informative details about the 42nd.

 

This is the first I have heard about 42nd pipers wearing Royal Stewart.  You learn something new every day!  Could you point me to the date in the war diary where this point is discussed?  Could you possibly post the Sept 1918 Arras image of the pipe band or point me to where I might find it?

 

Mike

[ronmarsden]

Mike, RHC on Salisbury plain I think 1915 blue glengarries but still with the old 5thRHC badges.

Ron.

[gordon92]

3 hours ago, ronmarsden said:

Mike, RHC on Salisbury plain I think 1915 blue glengarries but still with the old 5thRHC badges.

Ron.

 

Great photo, Ron.  Thank you for posting.  Would you know about when the 13th Battalion Star badge was issued?

[gordon92]

72nd Battalion CEF (Seaforth Highlanders of Canada)

 

Mobilized at: Vancouver, British Columbia

Key dates: began mobilization 4-9-1915; arrived in England 5-5-1916; arrived in France 13-8-1916; demobilized 20-6-1919

Raised from (primarily): 72th Regiment (Seaforth Highlanders of Canada) (Vancouver)

 

Cap badge:

 

Note on headdress: red-white-green diced glengarry.

 

Collar badges:

I have not seen photo evidence of Other Ranks using a C over 72 collar, but it probably happened.  See photo below of an officer wearing a C over 72 likely late in the war.  For a discussion of officer usage of C over "x" collar badges, see CEFSG thread on this topic.

     

 

Shoulder formation sign (4th Division, 12th Brigade, 72nd Battalion):

 

Tartan:

           MacKenzie

 

Shoulder title:

Member Bill Alexander indicates in this thread on the 72nd Shoulder Title that three patterns exist, and this is one of those shown below.

 

Images:

Onboard Olympic going home to Canada June 1919

 

Officers Ohain, Belgium April 1919

 

Pipe Band Ohain, Belgium April 1919

 

Edited 26 February , 2017 by gordon92

[ronmarsden]

Mike, I dont know when they changed to the star pattern badge? Presumably before they left England 12th Feb 1915.

The earlier mention of the 42nd pipers wearing Royal Stuart tartan I cant find any evidence of that, but there is a painting of the 13th RHC landing a St. Nazaire (Edgar Bundy ARA) showing the pipers wearing kilts and pipe bags of Royal Stuart.

Ron.

[gordon92]

2 hours ago, ronmarsden said:

Mike, I dont know when they changed to the star pattern badge? Presumably before they left England 12th Feb 1915.

The earlier mention of the 42nd pipers wearing Royal Stuart tartan I cant find any evidence of that, but there is a painting of the 13th RHC landing a St. Nazaire (Edgar Bundy ARA) showing the pipers wearing kilts and pipe bags of Royal Stuart.

Ron.

Thanks, Ron.  I do not think there is any dispute about 13th Battn pipers wearing Royal Stuart.

Mike

[Rich Moncrief]

16 hours ago, ronmarsden said:

Mike, I dont know when they changed to the star pattern badge? Presumably before they left England 12th Feb 1915.

The earlier mention of the 42nd pipers wearing Royal Stuart tartan I cant find any evidence of that, but there is a painting of the 13th RHC landing a St. Nazaire (Edgar Bundy ARA) showing the pipers wearing kilts and pipe bags of Royal Stuart.

Ron.

 

Ron, I will dig out the war diary citation this evening. It is not a direct yes or no. It states something along the lines of Royal Stuart not being sanctioned for the 42nd Battalion Pipers. This suggests one of two things. Either they applied to do it and were turned down, or. were doing it and this was confirmation they were not to. Also, to my eye, looking at the photo taken of the Pipes & Drums of the 42nd Battalion taken in September 1918 in or around Arras. I have an "original" copy of the image below. It is difficult to make out but with a magnifying glass, some of the kilts of the fellows in the back do not seem like the Government sett to me. It is just worth more investigation. I plan on an RHC Armoury visit this fall to go through 42nd Battalion records.

 

[gordon92]

31 minutes ago, Rich Moncrief said:

 

Ron, I will dig out the war diary citation this evening. It is not a direct yes or no. It states something along the lines of Royal Stuart not being sanctioned for the 42nd Battalion Pipers. This suggests one of two things. Either they applied to do it and were turned down, or. were doing it and this was confirmation they were not to. Also, to my eye, looking at the photo taken of the Pipes & Drums of the 42nd Battalion taken in September 1918 in or around Arras. I have an "original" copy of the image below. It is difficult to make out but with a magnifying glass, some of the kilts of the fellows in the back do not seem like the Government sett to me. It is just worth more investigation. I plan on an RHC Armoury visit this fall to go through 42nd Battalion records.

 

Thanks for posting this, Ron.  I think the resolution is not great enough for my eyes to make out the sett for the men in the back.  I look forward to your report on the war diary citation.

Mike

[gordon92]

On 2/11/2017 at 07:31, Rich Moncrief said:

A few more notes on the 42nd.

 

Early in its career the original issue of kilts was called "Cantlie Tartan", these seem to be some sort of khaki serge kilt and images on the 42nd on parade in London suggest it is a very plain kilt, but I do not believe these are the same as the British issued khaki serge kilts made up as a simplified version and generally accepted as not being worn by anyone outside of the U.K. Later uniform groupings show the regular Government sett.

 

This excerpt from the 42nd Regimental History talks about a khaki kilt similar to The Black Watch sporting tartan.  Perhaps, this is the Cantlie Tartan to which you refer.

 

[ronmarsden]

3 hours ago, Rich Moncrief said:

 

Ron, I will dig out the war diary citation this evening. It is not a direct yes or no. It states something along the lines of Royal Stuart not being sanctioned for the 42nd Battalion Pipers. This suggests one of two things. Either they applied to do it and were turned down, or. were doing it and this was confirmation they were not to. Also, to my eye, looking at the photo taken of the Pipes & Drums of the 42nd Battalion taken in September 1918 in or around Arras. I have an "original" copy of the image below. It is difficult to make out but with a magnifying glass, some of the kilts of the fellows in the back do not seem like the Government sett to me. It is just worth more investigation. I plan on an RHC Armoury visit this fall to go through 42nd Battalion records.

 

 

[ronmarsden]

Rich, I notice the two men back row extreme left and right are not wearing 42nd sporrans?

Also all men wearing Imperial white metal badges instead of the chocolate brown style usually attributed to the 42nd.

Examples below.

[gordon92]

73rd Battalion CEF (Royal Highlanders of Canada)

 

Mobilized at: Montreal and Valcartier

Key dates: began mobilization 4-9-1915; arrived in England 5-5-1916; arrived in France 13-8-1916; disbanded 19-4-1917 after Vimy Ridge.  Men distributed as reinforcements to 13th, 42nd, and 85th Battalions.

Raised from (primarily): 5th Regiment Royal Highlanders of Canada (Montreal)

 

Cap badge:

Same Star cap badge as for 42nd which was the Imperial Black Watch pattern.  The Maple Leaf badge was believed to have been worn by only a minority of 73rd soldiers at the end of the battalion's operational lifetime.  This point is somewhat controversial.  See discussions on this issue in threads on the British/Commonwealth Badge Forum and the CEFSG Forum.

     

 

Notes on headdress: solid blue glengarry; khaki serge glengarry worn in Canada.

 

Collar badges:

The badge shown below (from Ron Marsden, Black Watch Forum) was the preponderant pattern.  There is some belief that  the universal CANADA collar badge was also worn.  This is also controversial; see the aforementioned two external threads for further discussion.

 

Shoulder formation sign (4th Division, 12th Brigade, 73rd Battalion):

 

Tartan:

Government with knife pleats.  There is some photographic evidence that a form of khaki kilt with a simplified Black Watch sporting tartan known as the Cantlie tartan was initially worn by the 73rd as did the 42nd.  See post #34 above.

 

  Government                                    Cantlie

  

 

Shoulder titles:

Source: Member ronmarsden in Canadian Black Watch Collection on the Black Watch Forum.

1915  

1916

 

Images:

Lt Col Peers Davidson undated but probably still in Canada

 

Pipe Band undated but probably still in Canada

 

Edited 4 May , 2017 by gordon92

[Retlaw]

On 07/02/2017 at 19:06, gordon92 said:

13th Battalion CEF (Royal Highlanders of Canada)

 

Mobilized at: Camp Valcartier, Quebec

Key dates: began mobilization 9-1-1914; arrived in England 16-10-1914; arrived in France 16-2-1915; demobilized 20-4-1919

Raised from (primarily): 5th Regiment Royal Highlanders of Canada (Montreal); 78th Pictou Regiment (Truro, NS), 93rd Cumberland Regiment (Amherst, NS)

 

Cap badge:

Red hackle worn in Tam O'Shanter from 16 November 1917.

 

Collar badge (from Ron Marsden, Black Watch Forum):                  

      

 

 

Shoulder formation sign (1st Division, 3rd Brigade, 13th Battn):

 

Tartans:

Government with knife pleats                    Royal Stuart (Pipers)

     

 

 

 

 

I have a load of Canadian WW1 cap badges, that father left when he died, he started collecting about 1947, and then sold a lot off, all that are left are the Canadian ones, I photocopied Brabins book and mounted the badges on boards for father just before he died, these are some of the spares, they've been wrapped up in plastic bags ever since.

[gordon92]

12 hours ago, Retlaw said:

I have a load of Canadian WW1 cap badges, that father left when he died, he started collecting about 1947, and then sold a lot off, all that are left are the Canadian ones, I photocopied Brabins book and mounted the badges on boards for father just before he died, these are some of the spares, they've been wrapped up in plastic bags ever since.

Very nice display, Retlaw.  Thank you for posting.  Did your father serve in the Canadian forces?

[gordon92]

85th Battalion CEF (Nova Scotia Highlanders)

 

Mobilized at: Halifax, Nova Scotia

Key dates: began mobilization 14-9-1915; arrived in England 18-10-1916; arrived in France 10-2-1917; disbanded 8-6-1919

Raised from (primarily): 94th Victoria Regiment "Argyll Highlanders" (Baddeck, Victoria County, Cape Breton, NS)

 

Cap badge:

      

 

Notes on headdress: red-white diced glengarry; most photographs show men wearing drab serge Balmoral with distinctive small red feather layered on top of larger khaki feather mounted behind cap badge.

 

Collar badge:

This is the pattern of collar badge most used by the battalion.  C over 85 badges did exist but were infrequently worn.  See CEFSG 85th thread for details on this point.

 

Shoulder formation sign (4th Division, 12th Brigade, 85th Battalion):

 

Tartan:

Government with box pleats as per the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders.  Vernacularized as the "Kiltless Highlanders," the rank and file of the 85th did not receive a full issue of kilts until July 1918.

 

Shoulder title:

Worn with CANADA bar.

 

 

Images:

ORs July 1917 trousers, Balmorals, TOSs

 

With Haig near Amien August 1918 in kilts

 

Lt Col AH Borden undated

 

Bands Chambrire, Belgium March 1919

 

Edited 26 February , 2017 by gordon92

[Retlaw]

10 hours ago, gordon92 said:

Very nice display, Retlaw.  Thank you for posting.  Did your father serve in the Canadian forces?

Hi gordon92. No faythur lived all his life in Accrington,I never knew what made him start  collecting cap badges, al that were left when he gave them to me were the Canadian ones, some Indian Police badges & some Australians, luckily there are no fakes, he stopped collecting before that happend.

[gordon92]

I have amended the post for each of the 8 Highland battalions of the Canadian Corps to include some brief Note(s) on Headdress.

 

The usage of the khaki serge glengarry is an interesting issue.  There appears to be agreement among CEF historians and enthusiasts that these glengarries were not worn outside Canada.  There is evidence that khaki glengarries were worn by at least the 42nd and 73rd Battalions among the 8 battalions covered here.  Other Highland battalions that as a unit only served as far as the UK probably wore this headdress in Canada before departure including the 134th as seen in the photo included in post #21 by member Jockbhoy67.  Should other members have additional information or photos on khaki glengarries, please do post.

[ronmarsden]

Here is a photo of a khaki glengarry which I believe was worn by the 73rd Bn in Canada.

[ronmarsden]

This is a glengarry from my collection, 42nd SNCOs badge die-struck in silver with a gilt wash on the overlay.

Toronto makers mark inside.

[gordon92]

3 hours ago, ronmarsden said:

Here is a photo of a khaki glengarry which I believe was worn by the 73rd Bn in Canada.

 

3 hours ago, ronmarsden said:

This is a glengarry from my collection, 42nd SNCOs badge die-struck in silver with a gilt wash on the overlay.

Toronto makers mark inside.

Great photos, Ron.  Regarding the first photo of the khaki glengarry, is there any way of distinguishing the badge as belong to the 73rd versus the 42nd?

[ronmarsden]

Here is a photo of the 73rd wearing the khaki version, but I cant find an example of the 42nd wearing them.

[gordon92]

1 hour ago, ronmarsden said:

Here is a photo of the 73rd wearing the khaki version, but I cant find an example of the 42nd wearing them

Interesting that no kilts are visible in this photo.

[gordon92]

On 2/7/2017 at 17:46, FROGSMILE said:

 

It's fairly straightforward to understand Ron, once you realise that the existing Canadian regiments (predominantly militia) did not deploy to the theatre of war for a range of reasons.  Instead, they acted as recruiting and basic training units that then provided drafts for the numbered units of the Canadian Expeditionary Force, often supporting several battalions with regular contingents of battle casualty replacements, via the Canadian Infantry Base Depots.  Unfortunately there was little coherence between the titles of the original, feeding units and the newly created (effectively war-raised) deployed units of the CEF in France and Flanders.

Frogsmile.....The best description that I have read that explains the rationale (or lack of) for the structure of the CEF is to be found beginning on page 5 of this document under the heading "Sir Sam's Pets".  Essentially, Sam Hughes, the Minister of Militia, scrapped an existing war mobilization plan in favor of a mass call for militiamen to assemble at Camp Valcartier, Quebec; with some confusion they were amassed into battalions based partly on regional affiliations and brigades before departing for England in October.  I hope this may be of interest.

Edited 15 February , 2017 by gordon92

[battle of loos]

good morning,

 

this is one sweet brooch find in Loos battlefield :

 

                                 ROYAL HIGHLANDERS OF CANADA

                       73rd OVERSEAS BATTALION BLACK WATCH                                                     T L M STERLING

 

regards

 

michel

 

[battle of loos]

On ‎07‎/‎02‎/‎2017 at 19:32, gordon92 said:

Additionally, there were a number of Highland battalions raised that served only in the UK, and these were mostly absorbed or transformed into reserve battalions within a short time after arriving in England.  Those battalions were: 17^th (Nova Scotia Highlanders), 92^nd (48^th Highlanders), 105^th (Prince Edward Island Highlanders), 134^th (48^th Highlanders), 173^rd (Canadian Highlanders), 174^th (Cameron Highlanders of Canada), 179^th (Cameron Highlanders of Canada), 185^th (Cape Breton Highlanders), 193^rd (Nova Scotia Highlanders), 194^th (Edmonton Highlanders), 219th (Nova Scotia Highlanders), 231^st (Seaforth Highlanders of Canada), 236^th (New Brunswick Kilties), 246^th (Nova Scotia Highlanders), and 253^rd (Queen’s University Highland Battalion).  Finally, a sizeable number of CEF battalions who dressed as standard line infantry had pipe bands who wore Highland dress of one form or another; these battalions were: 19^th, 21^st, 25^th, 26^th, 29^th, 35^th, 46^th, 50^th, 63^rd, 67^th, 77^th, 82^nd, 96^th, 102^nd, 107^th, 113^th, 154^th, 168^th, 224^th, 228^th, 241^st, and PPCLI.

 

this is one cap badge about the 63rd Canadian Battalion find near Vimy :

 

 

I have one question about this unit.

 

in what battalion served men of the 63rd?

 

regards

 

michel