I've found a war memorial by some wheelie bins!

[Ice Tiger]

Well done in saving this and finding a fitting location for its display.

Being the custodian of the war memorial pictured in my avatar, that no one wants to display, I know how difficult that is.

Andy

[Andy Wade]

Which memorial is that then Andy?

I wouldn't mind seeing a larger picture of it if you could post it on here please.

[Roger Thompson]

Hello there Andy, I'm sure Ice Tiger as told us about how he came to be the custodian of the Memorial, wish I could find it.

Cheers Roger.

[Ice Tiger]

I cant find it myself Roger

I don't wish to hijack your thread Andy but being the shameless publicist of Anything related to the Great War and Addlestone, Surrey, here's the very much abridged version...........

It's a glazed, oak framed, church roll of honour.

It was made by my great grandfather (a Thames boat builder by trade) and the caligraphy was done by my great uncle.

It hung in St Augustine's Church Addlestone, Surrey - A mission church. A few years ago, with dwindling congregatrions the church closed.

When the church closed the clergy asked if anyone had items that they, or their family, had donated to the church to let them know and they would return them.

Given the family history, my father asked for the memorial as there was no intention to rehang it in the main church in Addlestone; we knew this as my mother was the parish administrator. The reason for not displaying it in the main parish church is all the names are repeated on the stone rood screen memorial in that church, and also on the civic memorial in the town.

As requested, the memorial was returned to my father and, not knowing what to do now he had it, I suggested he give it to me & I would see what I could find out about those named on it. At this point I had no experience of research and little interest in the Great War but researching it led to a growing interest, the passion I now have and my purchasing a mobile home on the Somme!

Apoliogies once again for hijacking your thread

Andy

[Andy Wade]

Not hijacking it at all Andy. Very interested to see your memorial and it's a damned shame nobody wants it.

To anyone reading this thread, I could do with a little help with something please.

Written on the back of the memorial there's what looks like the name of the carpenter who made it, I say this because the same blue pencil has been used to write an instruction for a 1/4" rebate detail to house the front panel of the memorial.

I think I've mentioned it before in this thread but I don't want to pre-empt anyone having a stab at what it says. It was a little vague before but I've cropped the photo of the writing and put it through a few filters to bring out the wording. I will say that the final word is definitely 'Lees'. Lees is a local village to us. Please would you tell me what you think the name is, without looking back in the thread to see what I put earlier:

[mandy hall]

? ?

Ellison

Lees

My guess

Mandy

[seaJane]

To Mr Wllm

is what I make of the first line - maybe "For" instead of "To" as to judge by "Mr" the lower-case r is high in the space and a bit sketchy. Wllm being William abbreviated.

Can you find a William Ellison in Lees in the 1911 census?

sJ

[Anneca]

To Mr Ulben/Ulbert/Albert perhaps? Or maybe For Mr Albert Ellison Lees?

Anne

[Andy Wade]

Some very good guesses being made which I hadn't seen. Thank you very much for these.

The advantages of not having pre-conceived ideas, I had originally thought it said 'Norman Albert Ellison Lees'.

But I've been having strong misgivings about 'Norman', strong enough to rule it out completely now.

I'm very happy with the words 'Ellison' and the word 'Lees'. I do think that the second word is probably Albert but not 100%. In census records there was an Albert Ellison living in Lees. He was a house painter aged 21 in the 1911 census so I don't think it's him though, but the memorial was made 10 years later than that so I can't rule him out totally. He could have painted the lettering and names on the memorial. I'm going to check the trade directories under the name Ellison to see if anything comes up. If there's an Ellison who was a carpenter in Lees around the time this was made... We think the memorial was unveiled on the 3rd September 1921 and I'll check this newspaper reference in the library. It might say who made it.

I've also wondered if the first word says 'Joiner' but I don't think it is now after the suggestions that have been made.

I hadn't thought of the words 'To' and 'Mr' for the first bit either. This makes me wonder if this really is a message to go with the instruction to the carpenter, to make a rebate in the moulding to receive the central panel with the war dead names on, and was written at the same time for that reason. It's certainly the same writing, and the same blue pencil that has been used for the rebate instruction.

Edit: There is another possible line of enquiry about who made the memorial and that's the previously mentioned archive box(es) that contained the Methodist circuit magazine and other church records. There may be a receipt or an account book with something in it so I'll check at the library for this as well. Thanks very much everyone.

Edited 20 August , 2015 by Andy Wade

[eairicbloodaxe]

For me, as clear as day, it reads: To Mr Albert Ellison, Lees.

Regards

Ian

[Allison01]

For me, as clear as day, it reads: To Mr Albert Ellison, Lees.

Regards

Ian

Same here!

Allison

[CGM]

I agree and this may be where it was to be delivered, when finished.

[Andy Wade]

Was that before or after you read what other people had said?

I do agree with you though and it does look like that to me now, but I saw it really faint in poor light at first and I think I'd formed an opinion of it before I'd had the chance to see it in a good light as I've displayed it here. I find myself still trying to see 'To Mr' as a hastily scribbled 'Norman' because I saw it as the carpenter signing his own work. I think it's not that at all now, but a message with an instruction about a rebate in the moulding:

Here's what it looked like at first:

[Andy Wade]

Here's the instruction for the rebate detail, which is pretty clear:

[Magnumbellum]

Same here!

Allison

And here, with the additional comment that what may now appear as excessive formality for a jotted note of that nature was standard for the period. Such formality began to disappear in the late 1930s, but did not go completely until the 1950s/60s.

It is also possible that a house painter could have basic joinery skills. It would be useful for a painter to be able to deal with faulty doors and windows before painting them.

[Pighills]

Definitely Mr Albet Ellison, Lees.

Great photo Andy. Once it's in situ, James and I may just take a drive over to have a gander, you'll have to let me know where it is please.

[Andy Wade]

Thanks for your very helpful comments everyone. Pretty certain that it says To Mr Albert Ellison, Lees, which means I can concentrate on finding out who he was.

I will do that Kim, probably on this thread.

In the meantime Cliffe Castle Museum is shown on this webpage, with opening times and more information and a photo gallery on links from that page. The stained glass window displays are upstairs, which is where the war memorial is likely to be ending up.

http://www.bradfordmuseums.org/venues/cliffecastle/index.php

[Simon_Fielding]

1891 England, Wales & Scotland Census

Janet Street, Bingley, Keighley, Yorkshire, England

Learn more

Print transcription View image Household Members

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

John Thomas Ellison Head Married Male 33 1858 House Painter Bingley, Yorkshire, England Transcription

Jennet Ellison Wife Married Female 27 1864 - Bingley, Yorkshire, England Transcription

Edith Ellison Daughter - Female 5 1886 Scholar Bingley, Yorkshire, England Transcription

Albert Ellison Son - Male 1 1890 - Bingley, Yorkshire, England

2, Janet Street, Haworth, Keighley, Yorkshire, England

Learn more

Print transcription View image Household Members

First name(s) Last name Relationship Marital status Gender Age Birth year Occupation Birth place

John T Ellison Head Married Male 43 1858 Painter House Bingley, Yorkshire, England Transcription

Janet Ellison Wife Married Female 37 1864 - Bingley, Yorkshire, England Transcription

Edith Ellison Daughter Single Female 15 1886 Spinner Worsted Bingley, Yorkshire, England Transcription

Albert Ellison Son Single Male 11 1890 - Bingley, Yorkshire, England

[Andy Wade]

Yes thanks Simon, I think he's the one who was living at Janet Street, Lees aged 21 in the 1911 census. A house painter like his dad before him.

He's a pretty good candidate for more research.

I'm thinking now, that there's no proven evidence that the blue pencil marks are anything but notes for the carpenter about the 'Top side' and the rebate detail. The name could have been written by the carpenter using the same pencil once the memorial was assembled and ready to be sent 'To Mr Albert Ellison, Lees', for the lettering work to be done by Albert, who was a painter. He could easily have been doing this sort of detailed letter painting work as well.

[charlie2]

I think you can safely discount it being made by a Painter with basic joinery skills, the quality of work is much too good for that. The wording "top edge" is most probably for the information of the signwriter/painter so he did not put the writing on upside down. In the days gone by it was not unknown for frames to be slightly untrue and the board would only fit in one way.

[Andy Wade]

Whoops, forgot to post the link to the newspaper article:

http://www.keighleynews.co.uk/news/13633406.Keighley_Methodist_war_memorial_likely_to_go_on_display_at_Cliffe_Castle_Museum/

[Allison01]

Fantastic well done again Andy

[Canadian J]

Seems like so many museums have trouble finding room to display all of their items, but the knowledge that they are safely tucked away is a good feeling too! I'm sure that wherever it ends up, it will be looked after from now on thanks to you Andy!

- J

Edit - now having read more of the thread (Thinking before i speak is something my Dad always encouraged but was only moderately successful at ), looks like it will be going from back ally trash to a nice place on museum display! Hard to believe that by this point it could have been buried deep with other junk by now if not for your work Andy, I'm sure the men attached to these names would have been happy about this as well.

Edited 30 August , 2015 by Canadian J

[MikeyH]

An item on this evenings BBC Midland TV news highlighted the intended closure of 16 local churches and the sale of their contents due to diminishing congregations. How many of these one wonders contain WW1 Memorial panels and what are the plans if any for their preservation?

Mike.

[Andy Wade]

Yes, we've been approached about another war memorial from a chapel that has been closed down. It's in a former parishioner's garage at the moment (history repeating itself?). We're not really in a position to take war memorials as such, even though we already have a couple of smaller ones in our own archive. We're looking at other options regarding the one we've been asked about. Seems such a shame that 100 years after the war we're looking at the gradual loss of memorials dedicated to the sacrifice these men made, it's almost as if nobody in authority cares any more.