shippingsteel Posted 8 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 8 March , 2015 So that is the bayonet component on its own, and I can tell you it doesn't get any easier with the rest of the set. The three pieces are quite disparate but valuable in their own right. Just when you think you've got your head around the value of the bayonet, then it's time to consider the scabbard and the frog which came with it (which are NOT matched) So the scabbard is the scarce No.2 Mk.I (which for the uninitiated is the double stitched variation with the seams on front and back) which was made in Australia circa 1920. The nice condition leather frog is a well stamped Patt.14 version made by HGR. So as I said quite disparate items that most likely were put together by an unwitting collector. This raises another level of difficulty when establishing a value. Matching sets of period items are obviously more valuable then unmatched items which are 'sum-of-the-parts'. On it's own the set is 'not right' so less valuable. But to a collector who can break up the set and then match with other pieces to correct the problem, this is not such an issue. How different pieces came to be together over the intervening 100 years is a whole other can of worms. Usually mixed and matched out of service, but sometimes still 'intact'. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 My latest collecting quandry is the total inability to obtain a G98 to shoot! I can easily get one that has been de-activated (castrated and butchered) but getting a decent shooter is proving impossible. If anyone knows where there is one for sale then I'm definately interested. Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Sounds like an interesting piece S>S, an I can see why it appeals. I wouldn't overthink it too much - its clearly a very desirable bayonet, but I don't think that the scabbard adds much (if any) value over a standard WW1 period scabbard (unless you need to pair it with an inter-war Lithgow bayonet). Overall a very nice package, just depends how much you want it and whether it will complement your collection. I suspect it will. For me the key question would be - has it been used in action (as Trajan asked)? If not - I wouldn't spend big dollars on it, as that is the main thing I look for in a bayonet. But thats just my approach... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 9 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Don't worry J, it is already safely acquired and in the collection. I guess I have just been thinking aloud here and pondering the possibilities. It's one I couldn't pass on.! That is another problem, when I see excellent examples like that I just know I may never get such a chance to acquire them again. Not many bayonets in such condition. I couldn't help but buy the thing, it took couple of months but I eventually lucked into it. Such a beautiful blade I actually caught my breath at first draw from the scabbard.! Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 My latest collecting quandry is the total inability to obtain a G98 to shoot! I can easily get one that has been de-activated (castrated and butchered) but getting a decent shooter is proving impossible. If anyone knows where there is one for sale then I'm definately interested. Rod Are you UK based? Arundel Militaria states he has two due in soon. Both live. One 1898 and the other 1916. Give him a call. Neither are yet listed.TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 ... So the scabbard is the scarce No.2 Mk.I (which for the uninitiated is the double stitched variation with the seams on front and back) which was made in Australia circa 1920.... I was offered a deal on about 5-7 of those but turned it down as I don't (usually) do Australian stuff and they are post GW... BTW, I have also just turned down a 1914 Lithgow, HQ, scabbard less, as the condition was not that good for the price being asked (although perhaps good for a Lithgow fanatic?!). I have the photographs and might put them up later. Yes, I know, they are not that common, but an example of one of these it is not exactly at the highest point on my shopping list - and in that condition the price was too high... Ooops, going off topic a bit there - but related, a quandary... I don't have a HQ LIthgow, do I need a HQ Lithgow??? Be nice to have one - but at that price and in that condition! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 TT, Absolutely top. I'll give him a ring. I need a variation but that'll only take a week or so. Thanks, Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Good luck Rod! They are mentioned in the second list of items coming in. An interceptive phone call will be the best bet? Don't know how good they will be and hope not gone. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 9 March , 2015 Share Posted 9 March , 2015 Trajan, thats the kind of bayonet for which spending caps were meant to be breached! Any markings on it other than the usual? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Trajan, thats the kind of bayonet for which spending caps were meant to be breached! Any markings on it other than the usual? Yes, very blurry crossguard number... I'll post it on Australian bayonets... I know, I know... An opportunity not to be missed for many, but it is not in my collection scheme - P.1907's come my way by accident, and for the price the guy wanted I could have bought two HQ's in better condition. Apart from which, the price being asked was close to a AUD/USD/GBP/EU price for one of these, which even most would find expensive - and for me on a Turkish university salary, well, a price getting close to 50% of mine... So, some slight regrets I didn't take the offer, but... Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Wow, sounds like it was expensive. I can't quite make out those cross guard markings unfortunately. Obviously a great bayonet to have, but sounds like the price wasn't right and it wasn't a core collecting area for you, so probably a good decision. (I am referring to the photos posted on the other thread of course) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Probably not that expensive for somebody on an Australian,European, or US of A salary, but far too much for me on a Turkish salary! I freely admit, I hesitated, and tried to get the seller down a bit, which he would probably have done, but then the realisation of what my dear wife might very well have done with it and to me when I explained where the money for the kids' school fees, food, etc., had gone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 I think you did the right thing. No point impinging on the important things for a bayonet! I think its pretty important to have a clearly defined collecting mandate and to stick to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 10 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 10 March , 2015 I think its pretty important to have a clearly defined collecting mandate and to stick to it. Well I had better not start talking about the really nice set of buckles that I picked up recently ... Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henryww1 Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 I pay what I can for the bayonets and deacts that I want (NOT NEED ! you do not need these things to live or feed). Collecting is a most enjoyable addiction and like most addictions it becomes more and more costly to ones self and to others(WIFE/PARTNER). When you wish to buy the price is high, but when you wish to sell to a dealer, you will be surprised at how little you can be offered or what can be achieved. So buy what you want, buy museum quality to hold its price and know that when you are dead it will be in the hands of those untrained to recover the years of money, time and effort you expended. My father collected stamps all his life and then gave them to me when he no longer had the means or the health to continue. He enjoyed the hobby which took a lot of disposable money to accumulate and when I went to look into recovering for his health maintenance I found that we no longer used stamps in the main and the collectors had all grown to old to provide the money he had invested. Remember the key is to buy and enjoy it because that is really the only value it has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 I think you did the right thing. No point impinging on the important things for a bayonet! I think its pretty important to have a clearly defined collecting mandate and to stick to it. ... Remember the key is to buy and enjoy it because that is really the only value it has. Thanks JS and 16th... Yes, I did have some qualms (who wouldn't) - I got the photographs as first offer on the Sunday night, I was given time to make a decision, but it really took less than 30 minutes to decide 'No'... Now, if it had been at a bargain price...! OR one of those ones that I really need/want to fill out my collecting areas, then I think the holiday money piggy-bank might have been raided or the credit card maxed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Dear Guru's of Bayonette collecting, How much should I be paying for a G98 Bayonette in the Uk. I would like one with a scabard and decent condition. The remainder of the detail is price dependant. Also if there's anything to particularly avoid then a good steer would be usefull. Thanks, Rod (Outside of my comfort zone!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 10 March , 2015 Share Posted 10 March , 2015 Some reasonable Butchers (98/05) model were on offer with scabbard and frogs at Stratford at £135. TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 11 March , 2015 Share Posted 11 March , 2015 Rod, do you mean the long quill back s98 bayonet (in which case about £150-£175+) or the butcher bayonet (in which case about £130+ as TT says). Price really depends on what you mean by "decent" though. And 16th Lancers I agree wholeheartedly. Im sure your Dad loved his collection and wouldn't have had it any other way. Cheers, J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 11 March , 2015 Share Posted 11 March , 2015 Gents, Thanks a lot. That puts one within reach. I had one years ago that I got from the old Nottingham Arms fair for about £20 then sold on for a nice profit. Hindsight is 20/20 vision though! I'm looking for one as I insist that when I have a rifle it is complete. I have just about everything for my SMLE including foresight adjuster (Parkers) and an original combination tool, both of which were not easy to find. I have discovered that just about any spare part,(short of a barrel) is available on ebay so my spares kit is now very comprehensive! I'm hoping the G98 lives upto it's reputation for accuracy as I want to use it for Classic Service Rifle competition and the SMLE with abot 3 - 4 minutes of angle accuracy is just not quite upto it. Regards Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 March , 2015 Share Posted 11 March , 2015 Rod, do you mean the long quill back s98 bayonet (in which case about £150-£175+) or the butcher bayonet (in which case about £130+ as TT says). Price really depends on what you mean by "decent" though. Well, as you and I know, but our Rod may not, it should really be the quillback S.98 for absolute accuracy... Unless it is a post 1912 Gew.98, as then an S.98/05 would be appropriate, the manufacture of the quillback having ended sometime in 1912. Rod, if you haven't seen it - DO get a look at Storz's book on the G.98, discussed somewhere on GWF under 'Book Reviews', I think. I really am not a rifle person, but this is a fantastically informative piece of work, albeit in oft-times idiosyncratic English! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 11 March , 2015 Share Posted 11 March , 2015 Trajan, Thanks, I'm chasing a 1898 that TT reccomended. Having seen the deterioration in quality of the munitions through the war by the Germans I'm not sure to what degree rifles are affected. I cannot see some lessening in standards so an 1898 fits the bill for me perfectly. looking at the ersatz bayonets they seem to confirm the trend! As you quite rightly allude to, I understand the method of use and certainly to a degree the British bayonets, (although not to any great extent) but I am firmley a munitions and firing platforms man, (ranging from very large to man portable). I have a nice 1918 Wilkinson for my SMLE and also a re-work WWII Home defence '07 but that's me for edged weapons. I am also now looking for Storz' book, that may well be exceptionally useful. I have to go as I need to check out a couple of grenades. Our work collection has thousands of munitions but the Grenade section has No1 through to present and quite a few experimental as well so it's always a pleasure to devote a bit of the day to it. Regards, Rod P.S. I have some nice Conflict Archaeology in Kent this summer, if you are around, (I need someone to record while I direct!!!!). No seriously it's a lovely trench complex with a really unusual history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ogilwy Posted 11 March , 2015 Share Posted 11 March , 2015 Trajan, In case this might swing your decision, the trench complex also cuts a Roman farmstead that I am obliged to evaluate at the same time! Rod Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 11 March , 2015 Share Posted 11 March , 2015 ... P.S. I have some nice Conflict Archaeology in Kent this summer, if you are around, (I need someone to record while I direct!!!!). No seriously it's a lovely trench complex with a really unusual history! ... In case this might swing your decision, the trench complex also cuts a Roman farmstead that I am obliged to evaluate at the same time! Tempting, tempting... PM me the dates - haven't made holiday plans yet and I need to stock up on pig meat and cheese! Julian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 25 April , 2015 Share Posted 25 April , 2015 ... Then we ask ourselves that big question. How badly do we need it - how much do we pay.? Are we just hobbyists, investors or really 'custodians' of that history.? Cheers, S>S Nice article on this kind of question at: http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/apr/23/antiques-money Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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