auchonvillerssomme Posted 4 March , 2015 Share Posted 4 March , 2015 Can I use this post to ask what do collectors intend to do with their collections as an instruction in their will or before? This was a difficult decision for me, as I said earlier I recently disposed of nearly all of my collection, selling a lot of items but also donating some choice pieces to a relatively new museum last week, I have a few more items I will probably give to them, I have just found a large box with a selection of German grenades ( I'm sure other have had the same type of discussion at home 'Ok in this house are 2 Kugel grenades, where have you put them?'). We have specifically named the organisation that will receive our own and family medals etc, and made them aware of it. What happens after I'm dead I don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 4 March , 2015 Share Posted 4 March , 2015 Since the demise of my father last year I too have been considering this problem, he was a collector of Travel guides. Any conditions about collections need to be stipulated in the will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 5 March , 2015 Share Posted 5 March , 2015 S>S I'm surprised to hear you've never purchased from a dealers website! I also use the online auction sites but have picked up some wonderful stuff from dealers sites over the years, and sometimes at very good prices. Surely they are the ones who are at the militaria fairs anyway - and charging the same prices there? (I could be mistaken as I've never been to a fair). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 5 March , 2015 Share Posted 5 March , 2015 PS. Never once have I ever seen anything of value in an antique or junk store for a reasonable price. I think that these days its too easy for people to check the value of items via the internet so there are fewer bargains than there may have been in previous years. Just my 2c. My preferred approach is looking for items in countries where they are less appreciated - i.e. if you want a British item, don't buy it in Britain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
auchonvillerssomme Posted 5 March , 2015 Share Posted 5 March , 2015 PS. Never once have I ever seen anything of value in an antique or junk store for a reasonable price. I think that these days its too easy for people to check the value of items via the internet so there are fewer bargains than there may have been in previous years. I agree, as the Internet expanded the junk shops turned into antique shops and tills appeared where before there was only a cash bag around the owners waist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sawdoc34 Posted 5 March , 2015 Share Posted 5 March , 2015 I think if you can comfortably afford it & it will fit in with the rest of the items in your area of collecting, then go for it. If its a rare/very scarce piece, then what are the odds that you will ever find another (I have a kind gent holding a very scarce german bayonet for me, not in the condition that most of you would allow into your collections but certainly not a relic & most importantly it is a lot lower in price than a mint version, Iif you can find any version of it for sale, aint seen 1 up for sale in years). My biggest quandry at the moment is to do with the enforced thinning out pf surplus from my collection, which I havent really followed thru with any gusto as hate parting with my babies I have 3 US M1917 (remmington with 1st pattern scabbard, winchester with green 2nd pattern & 1918 dated in 2nd pattern scabbard) that in the strictest sensr dont fit into my Brit colection. Do I? A- part ways with them due to them being US issued & dont have US bayonets in the collection? B- keep them & try to rationalise to her that must be obeyed that they are another variation of the P1913 & therefore are essential to show the of evolvement this type of bayonet? Aleck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 March , 2015 Share Posted 5 March , 2015 I think if you can comfortably afford it & it will fit in with the rest of the items in your area of collecting, then go for it. If its a rare/very scarce piece, then what are the odds that you will ever find another (I have a kind gent holding a very scarce german bayonet for me, not in the condition that most of you would allow into your collections but certainly not a relic & most importantly it is a lot lower in price than a mint version, Iif you can find any version of it for sale, aint seen 1 up for sale in years). My biggest quandry at the moment is to do with the enforced thinning out pf surplus from my collection, which I havent really followed thru with any gusto as hate parting with my babies I have 3 US M1917 (remmington with 1st pattern scabbard, winchester with green 2nd pattern & 1918 dated in 2nd pattern scabbard) that in the strictest sensr dont fit into my Brit colection. Do I? A- part ways with them due to them being US issued & dont have US bayonets in the collection? B- keep them & try to rationalise to her that must be obeyed that they are another variation of the P1913 & therefore are essential to show the of evolvement this type of bayonet? Aleck Fully agree with the first bit, and as for the last bit, his sounds a bit too familiar to me, mate... I go for option B... Working so far but its the storage issue, not the economy, that's the real problem, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 5 March , 2015 Share Posted 5 March , 2015 S>S I'm surprised to hear you've never purchased from a dealers website! I also use the online auction sites but have picked up some wonderful stuff from dealers sites over the years, and sometimes at very good prices. Surely they are the ones who are at the militaria fairs anyway - and charging the same prices there? (I could be mistaken as I've never been to a fair). I was surprised also, but it seems that Australia is brimming with militaria fairs, junk shops, and the like! I certainly have no problems with my main dealer and the guy at the antika pazari who keeps them under the table until I get to him - the relationship was a bit dodgy at first, took lots of bargaining, but I help them with stuff they can't ID in return and can even suggest a reasonable price for such items, and I have even picked-out fakes for them - the most obvious being a WW2 84/98 with sawback added... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N White Posted 5 March , 2015 Share Posted 5 March , 2015 I have bought one bayonet off ebay, and maybe three from dealers. All were so fantastically rare (5000 or less production) that I was shocked to see them for sale at all, and for more than reasonable prices. A fellow collector once said he spent 10 years looking for one. There are still bargains to be had, but they definately have moved to the margins of collecting. Put differently, I find you are more likely to find a deal on scarce items than common, because they are correspondingly more difficult to research. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mark holden Posted 5 March , 2015 Share Posted 5 March , 2015 True in the main but if you know your subject there are still some real finds to be made albeit things are not as easily found as in the past the UK hobby of car booting is still a very rich ream as are small auctions that are not on the net! We have a few around my way which have turned up some real gems S>S I'm surprised to hear you've never purchased from a dealers website! I also use the online auction sites but have picked up some wonderful stuff from dealers sites over the years, and sometimes at very good prices. Surely they are the ones who are at the militaria fairs anyway - and charging the same prices there? (I could be mistaken as I've never been to a fair). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cooper Posted 5 March , 2015 Share Posted 5 March , 2015 Personally i like a number of different areas, my interest in different areas comes and goes in phases. At the moment its rifles and servicemen research. That being said i love the chase, i love the way you feel when you have discovered something previously unloved or appreciated in a junk shop or sale. The buzz when found, then of course doing further research on it. Becoming a history detective is great, trying to build a story behind the item. If its medals, re discovering the person behind them. Truly helping tell their story. I trade between friends for items sometimes so money doesnt change hands, but i am a bargain hunter and my philosophy is if you dont look you dont find. At auctions, leave a cheeky bid, if you get it, great! If not, nothing lost. There are junk shops in your area, you just need to know where to look. If you pass any one, pop in and have a look. You never know. I have been lucky the last couple of years, my best was a £30 auction for 2 helmets. One a 39 dated (like ww2 things also but not as much as ww1) and the other a 42 dated para helmet. I acutally sold the para (regrettably), but it was to pay for Nursery furniture for our first. I got £1,800 for it! Still have the other helmet. Last year i paid £60 for a 1918 sopwith pup prop (boss and one blade). Have some history with it too, was from a crash at Boscombe down. Proudly fitted on the dining room wall! Very lucky. I suppose it comes down to luck finding the right items at the right price, but you can influence that. I too never buy from premium internet sites. For me, i do not want a mint item. I want one thats been used and abused. I feel it tells more of its life. Even some light restoration required is great. You help to save the item. I have been doing it for 20 years so i feel i know what i'm doing, it helps to ensure that you pay less for the item due to condition so win win. I also think that you never really stop collecting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 6 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2015 Great to hear other members thoughts and philosophies.! Even across different fields of collecting it is interesting how much we really have in common. As mentioned above, there are countless ways to source out your items. And it is this very aspect of sourcing that prompted me to originally post this topic. Like I said before, a lot of these things come down to personal tastes. I like to have some input into the final price that is settled on, but that is just my way. When I find what I want I am happy to pay a fair price. My problem was that I wasn't finding the special items that normally get my attention. I quit looking.! Yep you heard right, I actually went 'cold turkey' and just stopped looking for items to purchase. I guess I became disillusioned with what was being offered. A combination of increased work demands and other priorities probably helped in this regard. I also decided to up my standards and restrict my purchasing. I always prefer 'special quality' scarcer mainstream items over 'rarity due to them hardly being used' type items. (Think near-mint reg't marked hook quillons) Anyway it was about then that I started encountering an interesting phenomenon. The more that I stopped looking, the more things started coming my way.! It was like they were finding me.! And I was amazed. It wasn't that I had stopped being interested, I just changed the way I went about things. I talked more. I helped other collectors out with information wherever possible, and shared stories with other enthusiasts. It was that old 'personal touch' which we have lost. By stopping looking at the everyday auction sites I had 'kept my powder dry' and hadn't accumulated reams of lesser quality items which I didn't really need. I had been able to keep space in my budget for those big ticket purchases. And it was surprising how these items began to find their way into my "channels". I actually think that's the best way to describe it. I was finding these top-shelf items were coming to me via "back-channels".! (And aided by personal contact) Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 6 March , 2015 Share Posted 6 March , 2015 Well if you are receiving some nice bayonets through "back-channels" I would say its well deserved as you have passed on some very helpful advice on this forum over the years. I hope you will be sharing some of your recent acquisitions with us all soon. Interesting re the hooked quillon. By the very fact that they still have their quillon intact it is unlikely they saw much (if any) service in the war and yet they continue to sell like hotcakes for vast sums. I don’t really understand why that is – they are clearly not scarce, but for some reason are very desirable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trenchtrotter Posted 6 March , 2015 Share Posted 6 March , 2015 Why do you think hookies saw no service? I have found several relic ones on the Somme. Regards TT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jscott Posted 6 March , 2015 Share Posted 6 March , 2015 Sorry TT, I wasn't being particularly clear there. I was referring to the 'near mint' style hookies that S>S refers to in his post above. I guess if the hookies stayed in service throughout the war then they would have had their quillons removed - but of course this wouldn't apply to relic items. And nice work on finding some relic bayonets - that must have been in one of the less visited parts of the Somme I would imagine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 6 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 6 March , 2015 No J, you have to be careful and not generalise about ALL examples. There are plenty of bayonets in museums that saw service, surviving to be later donated by the families. They came home with their quillons intact, and with all the history that service items of the period have accumulated. When found in the 'wild' these ones are called 'sleepers'. Of course there are the other type which went out of circulation early, before the war, and which were never really used in service. These are the most commonly encountered. I have both types in my collection, most wouldn't know the difference. They range from 'bringback' hookies (wartime souvenirs from Germany) to pre-war Reservists examples. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 March , 2015 Share Posted 6 March , 2015 Interesting re the hooked quillon. ... they continue to sell like hotcakes for vast sums. I don’t really understand why that is – they are clearly not scarce, but for some reason are very desirable. Yes, it is like the German sawback thing... As I understand it, 6% of all 1890's-1918 German bayonets were provided with one, but in my experience of looking around, more than 6% of 98/05's on sale by various means are m.S., although admittedly other bayonet types that are also m.S. are not so common... But the sawbacks sell at a premium... They are desireable, just like the HQ's. I do wonder, though, if - apart from supply and demand factors - a generalised belief that all intact HQ's "must have seen service" in WW1 plays a part here, whereas in reality a de-hooked HQ is much more likely to be a WW1 veteran! Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kmad Posted 6 March , 2015 Share Posted 6 March , 2015 Hi I am a bit of a poacher turned game keeper I started buying a lot of bayonets, non specific at start but ended up imperial german as my mainstay I purchase a lot at auctions and car boot and maybe a junk shop. What I kept finding at auctions was what I wanted went high but I was seeing value able things going for a lot less than they were worth. So I decided to purchase anything I thought I would be able to re sell at auctions, but I would add knowledge as to what exactly the item was and then would be able to sell on at profit For instance I purchased 3 old swords, auction house description, turned out they were examples from 1780's, got them all for 200 euro, subsequently sold for 800 this money was then added to purchasing fund for something I wanted. If you look in a tread I have just put up about a saw back 98 I got it in a general auction for a good price, there were imperial german 71's at same auction, bought them for a song as they were described as 2 old bayonets, I subsequently sold these for enough to get the saw back for nothing when the totals were tallied. My moto is " if I can add knowledge to auction description, I will add value" On average for every 5 items I buy, I loose on one, make a slight profit on 3 and a great deal on 1. The excitement of selling is great and it makes the hobby more or less self financing All the best Ken Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 6 March , 2015 Share Posted 6 March , 2015 Yes, it is rather odd that S.71's are as undervalued as they are - many saw service in WW1, but people seem to like the S.98's and 98/05's only. Likewise, the 'umble Ersatz usually goes for something much less than a regular, but that's because of 'aesthetic reasons' I suppose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartH Posted 6 March , 2015 Share Posted 6 March , 2015 Ken has and others have said a very good and interesting point, selling stuff sharpens the eye. I don't do it much, but have swapped very successfully with dealers. This point about buying out of country is very important too, done it many times. With respect to paying what others perceive as too much, I have done that several times, it does not bother me, they have never come up again. I am a book collector so once purchased a book, do not need a variant, nor for GW ones need a dw. I know its different to other things such as bayonets where there are other considerations. However I am not driven by the desire to have a bargain. I have studied the subject profusely, and spent loads on bibliographies, knowledge is key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shippingsteel Posted 7 March , 2015 Author Share Posted 7 March , 2015 And it is one thing to grapple with deciding how much to pay to secure an item let's say at an auction, but how do you value an item that has been offered to you personally.? The onus is then not about just picking up something at a bargain price, but about doing justice to the gesture. You have to be able to honour the act of being given the offer. It's something that I struggle with. In some cases these items are the last remnant of a lifetime spent collecting. The pinnacle of someones collection now needing a new home. There are so many overlays involved in actually valuing a collectable item. Where did it come from, how many were made, what is it's story, where has it been. The list goes on. And different people would not value the same thing exactly the same. To some it may be a 'must-have', while to others it is just nice thing which they can live without. Choices.! As an example of trying to value something, and to illustrate the levels of complexity involved, here is one of my recent challenges. And yes, it involves Bayonet, scabbard & frog. So it is a P1907 Sword-Bayonet with Hooked Quillon ..... How many HQ bayonets were made, and how many possibly remain in existence.? It was made by Sanderson Bros. in September 1908 ..... How many such bayonets were made in 1908, and how many survive with HQ intact.? It's blade is absolutely mint with mirror finish and deep bluing ..... How many P1907 HQ bayonets remain in such excellent untouched condition.? Add to the above it is Regt. marked to the Grenadier Guards ..... How many HQ bayonets issued to the Grenadier Guards survive as described.? So that is the bayonet component on its own, and I can tell you it doesn't get any easier with the rest of the set. The three pieces are quite disparate but valuable in their own right. Cheers, S>S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trajan Posted 7 March , 2015 Share Posted 7 March , 2015 And it is one thing to grapple with deciding how much to pay to secure an item let's say at an auction, but how do you value an item that has been offered to you personally.? Difficult one, to which the answer is - even so - straightforward - you give a fair price. The seller obviously knows you and your interest, and would appear to be offering it to you on trust - and to also avoid the hassle of listing, etc., for an auction or other sale. The problem here, though, being how do you calculate that fair price? My own thoughts are: a fair price is what is the usual going rate is for a regimentally-marked HQ in good condition - what regiment doesn't really matter here really. Yes, the Coldstreamers are a top body of men - but, was it ever used in action? But, if this is really a better example than would normally appear on sale, my thoughts are to explain and then add the premium. If you found it at a sale, quite unrecognised, and at a bargain, then fair enough - I never would have got my (for example) three Greek Y 1903's at the prices I did if I had said they were rare beforehand! It is up to you to explain or not the matter to the seller. TTFN Trajan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 7 March , 2015 Share Posted 7 March , 2015 They are desireable, just like the HQ's. I do wonder, though, if - apart from supply and demand factors - a generalised belief that all intact HQ's "must have seen service" in WW1 plays a part here, whereas in reality a de-hooked HQ is much more likely to be a WW1 veteran! That's good to know as I have a de-hooked 1913 Enfield made P1907 that I bought to 'match' my 1913 Enfield SMLE. I'd like an HQ, but not anything like badly enough to pay the going rate so it's on my 'hope a bargain turns up' list. Ditto a sawback S.98/05. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peregrinvs Posted 7 March , 2015 Share Posted 7 March , 2015 There are still bargains to be had, but they definately have moved to the margins of collecting. Put differently, I find you are more likely to find a deal on scarce items than common, because they are correspondingly more difficult to research. I had an example of this about 3 years ago when I bumped into a very rare RAF 1925 Pattern Colt 1911 holster in a short lived militaria shop in the West End of London. The dealer had no idea what it was (presumably too obscure) and I got it for a song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerhunter Posted 8 March , 2015 Share Posted 8 March , 2015 In case this helps I started my collection with the aim of having an example of the weapons and equipment carried by a fighting man on the Western Front. I found this difficult to keep to but it was my starting point. I have since bought a couple of post WW1 pistols. Can I use this post to ask what do collectors intend to do with their collections as an instruction in their will or before? For the core of my collection, there is no choice. When I die, my pistols and revolvers all revert to Section 5 and so my partner has the names of some Section 5 dealers that I know personally. (They will also deal with my Section 1s and Section 2s.) As to the stuff that I have collected over the years that are peripheral to my collection, my partner has been told to look at the tie-on labels. Anything that is labelled is valuable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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